May not be converting afterall

[Misty5054]

I don’t know if I’m posting this in the right place or not. If I’m not I’m sorry.

I was talking to the deacon he said he needs to get confirmation about a matter that I’m not going to get into here and needs my social security number which is something I never give out over the phone and since I have a meeting with him tomorrow anyway (I had called because I can’t find anyone to watch one of my little ones and wanted to see if it was okay for me to just take him along). When we hung up I called my husband and told him about it and he said “Honey, I have supported you through all of this but this is where I draw the line, you are not going to go and give them any kind of permission to dig around in your records. You can go back to the baptist church.” I sent an e-mail to the faith formation director about what my husband said. I want very much to join the church but I think my husband is right. Any suggestions on how to do this that will make everyone happy? I called the apologetics line last week but now her advice doesn’t seem as though it will work. I don’t want to go back to the baptist church because it just never felt right but when I went to mass the first time that feeling of something was wrong wasn’t there, that feeling is really hard to explain.

 

[Jenny_Z]

I’m not sure what they would need your SSN for… you can always talk to someone in a different parish.

But if it’s about an anulment or something like that, just think of it this way… this is your eternal soul we’re talking about. If you know that the Catholic Church is the Truth, how can you turn your back on it? Would God understand you turning away for something that, in the grand scheme of things, is so trivial?

I’d suggest talking to the priest about the matter, not just the deacon.

 

[muffinmojo]

There is something very wrong about the deacon asking for your SSN. If there is something serious enough that he needs to know your SSN, it’s not something he should be dealing with anyway. You don’t need a background check to convert…perhaps you should discuss this with the priest, before going to the deacon? Or at least tell the deacon your concerns. Perhaps it’s a misunderstanding, or he didn’t think it would be that big of a deal. There is no reason for him to ask you for that. If the priest backs him up, then perhaps you should consider trying to find another church nearby? Depending on where you are, there should be several Catholic churches in the area.

Please don’t give up on coming home! I did RCIA too, it is definatly worth it! Hope things work out

 

[EasterJoy]

I don’t know if I’m posting this in the right place or not. If I’m not I’m sorry.

I was talking to the deacon he said he needs to get confirmation about a matter that I’m not going to get into here and needs my social security number which is something I never give out over the phone and since I have a meeting with him tomorrow anyway (I had called because I can’t find anyone to watch one of my little ones and wanted to see if it was okay for me to just take him along). When we hung up I called my husband and told him about it and he said “Honey, I have supported you through all of this but this is where I draw the line, you are not going to go and give them any kind of permission to dig around in your records. You can go back to the baptist church.” I sent an e-mail to the faith formation director about what my husband said. I want very much to join the church but I think my husband is right. Any suggestions on how to do this that will make everyone happy? I called the apologetics line last week but now her advice doesn’t seem as though it will work. I don’t want to go back to the baptist church because it just never felt right but when I went to mass the first time that feeling of something was wrong wasn’t there, that feeling is really hard to explain.

This is so odd that the first thing I thought was that somebody is pulling my leg. Let us assume for the sake of argument that the truth is stranger than fiction, though.

There is a trio of information that should only be given out when absolutely necessary: your legal name, your birth date, and your social security number. I have never heard of the local parish ever needing your social security number to administer the sacraments. In any event, nobody should ever initiate a phone call to you and ask for your social security number over the phone, and that includes your bank and creditors. Even if it were innocently meant, it is a dangerous practice.

A parish office is no exception. Assuming this really happened, call the chancery office and talk to them about the incident. I think they will clear this whole question up for you, but even if you do not decide to join the Church, they should know about the request and who made it.

 

[YADA]

I don’t know if I’m posting this in the right place or not. If I’m not I’m sorry.

I was talking to the deacon he said he needs to get confirmation about a matter that I’m not going to get into here and needs my social security number which is something I never give out over the phone and since I have a meeting with him tomorrow anyway (I had called because I can’t find anyone to watch one of my little ones and wanted to see if it was okay for me to just take him along). When we hung up I called my husband and told him about it and he said “Honey, I have supported you through all of this but this is where I draw the line, you are not going to go and give them any kind of permission to dig around in your records. You can go back to the baptist church.” I sent an e-mail to the faith formation director about what my husband said. I want very much to join the church but I think my husband is right. Any suggestions on how to do this that will make everyone happy? I called the apologetics line last week but now her advice doesn’t seem as though it will work. I don’t want to go back to the baptist church because it just never felt right but when I went to mass the first time that feeling of something was wrong wasn’t there, that feeling is really hard to explain.

I have never had a staff person from the church ask for a social security number … and why providing onewoud be necesary is beyond me [unless one was applying for a position - employment is another issue] … there are no records in trhe church that I am aware of that deal with with social security benefits, etc …

Perhaps this was a mis-understanding or the deacon is confused … but in no way should the lack of providing a social security card number prevent you from entering th church - even if you were in ned of an annullment application for a previosu marriage, you would not need to provide SSN…

No I realize that you said it was a long story … okay … just contact another staff person at the church for clarification, preferably the pastor. Perhaps they have instituted a parish policy that is mis-guided

… in that case a call to the archdiocese should clear up the confusion and the archdiocese will take it from there …

Do not give them your SSN though …

 

[Archus]

The one thing you must do is never stop. Keep going! You are in a difficult situation, but just like the Saints, you must perservere. Christ himself fell three times on his way to be crucified.

Don’t expect everything to be solved with one clean swoop or a phone call. Meet with the deacon and ask simply and humbly as to why they need you social security number. I’m not American, so I don’t know what role the SSN plays, but if it is like my National Insurance number, then am I right in assuming that you give it out to employers and banks when opening an account or something?

Misty, I’ll pray for you. I want to leave you with something:

If nothing else, despite your husband’s protests and your deacon’s behaviour, trust in love. What you felt in Mass was no coincedence. Truth is there, and so is love. Why? Because God is not only true, and loving, but Truth and love itself. Hold on to that, and keep going. He will not give up on you, and don’t give up just yet.

 

[LilyM]

I don’t know if I’m posting this in the right place or not. If I’m not I’m sorry.

I was talking to the deacon he said he needs to get confirmation about a matter that I’m not going to get into here and needs my social security number which is something I never give out over the phone and since I have a meeting with him tomorrow anyway (I had called because I can’t find anyone to watch one of my little ones and wanted to see if it was okay for me to just take him along). When we hung up I called my husband and told him about it and he said “Honey, I have supported you through all of this but this is where I draw the line, you are not going to go and give them any kind of permission to dig around in your records. You can go back to the baptist church.” I sent an e-mail to the faith formation director about what my husband said. I want very much to join the church but I think my husband is right. Any suggestions on how to do this that will make everyone happy? I called the apologetics line last week but now her advice doesn’t seem as though it will work. I don’t want to go back to the baptist church because it just never felt right but when I went to mass the first time that feeling of something was wrong wasn’t there, that feeling is really hard to explain.

Your social security number? I can’t imagine there’d be that many reasons why your church would want it. Have you asked them to explain exactly why it’s necessary?

Bear in mind though that for certain things, like investigating the validity of former marriages, some very personal details would need to be got into. And for good reason - a marriage usually can’t be investigated without detailed knowledge of the circumstances.

A secular court might very well ask for financial details if you were seeking a divorce or child custody, in order to determine the financial status of the parties. I don’t know of circumstances where it would be necessary for the Church to do the same, but that’s not to say they don’t exist.

Assuming it were necessary, why should it be less important to provide evidence relating to the status of parties to a marriage (or any other aspect of your life) to your church, than it would to a secular authority? Aren’t religious authorities at least as trustworthy (certainly they’re every bit as bound by confidentiality) as government bureaucracies?

My first thought, though, would be to seek out another parish and get a second opinion as to whether it’s necessary to provide your SSN. My second thought would be that, as disappointing as mishandling of such matters can be it’s hardly a reason to abandon the idea of being part of the faith you believe to be correct. Doesn’t truth of doctrine or truth of teaching count more?

 

[Misty5054]

I was looking for advice on this not looking for someone to call me a liar but that’s exactly what has happened. I would have no reason to lie about this and I don’t understand why anyone would just assume someone’s lying when they are asking for advice. I’m sorry for even looking for advice now but to be honest this was the first place I thought to turn because everyone here has always seemed so understanding.

 

[EasterJoy]

I was looking for advice on this not looking for someone to call me a liar but that’s exactly what has happened. I would have no reason to lie about this and I don’t understand why anyone would just assume someone’s lying when they are asking for advice. I’m sorry for even looking for advice now but to be honest this was the first place I thought to turn because everyone here has always seemed so understanding.

I didn’t mean to offend you. Please forgive me and realize that we get that kind of thing here, though. And no, there’s not a reason in the world for people to do it, but that doesn’t stop them.

This isn’t about you. This is truly one of the weirdest things I’ve ever heard. Whatever you do, don’t give that guy your SSN without further inquiry and DO tell someone outside the parish about it. That phone call was REALLY not kosher!

 

[muffinmojo]

I don’t think anyone was calling you a liar- we’re offering suggestions! Please, even if you are discouraged by some responses, take the good advice that was given. Talk to the priest, and to the deacon, and try to determine exactly why they want it. They shouldn’t need it, so don’t give it to them. If they become insistent, find another parish, and consider sending a letter to your archdiocese!

Hope things work out- I know the RCIA journey can be difficult, you don’t need additional problems like this to make it even harder… God bless you!

 

[Archus]

I was looking for advice on this not looking for someone to call me a liar but that’s exactly what has happened. I would have no reason to lie about this and I don’t understand why anyone would just assume someone’s lying when they are asking for advice. I’m sorry for even looking for advice now but to be honest this was the first place I thought to turn because everyone here has always seemed so understanding.

We aren’t calling you a liar. To do so would undermine what we have been taught, and generally, is not a nice thing.

We want to help, and we will stick by you through this. Keep us updated, and keep God updated as well!

 

[YADA]

I was looking for advice on this not looking for someone to call me a liar but that’s exactly what has happened. I would have no reason to lie about this and I don’t understand why anyone would just assume someone’s lying when they are asking for advice. I’m sorry for even looking for advice now but to be honest this was the first place I thought to turn because everyone here has always seemed so understanding.

Please Misty, we are not calling you a lier … no one has ever heard of this before … go back and read my post … I stated that perhaps this parish instituted a mis-guided ***policy ***where they decided to ask for this information … a policy I said you would report to the archdiocese …

I am sure he meant no harm [and if the deacon is a wild card, doing this stuff for his own reasons - that too should be reported]

Do not give your SSN it is not necessary [even for an annullment] and I cannot think about any instance where th church would need your SSN for a conversion - employment and background checks if you are working with children, or the disabled, or performing home visits - even as a volunteer - YES … BUT never for conversion …

 

[Brendan]

I don’t think anyone was calling you a liar, but rather expressing our surprise that someone in the parish would ask for your SSN.

The only time anyone in the Church asked me for that was in my application to the Diaconate. The Church runs all clergy though a full State Police background scan now, and that was one of the required pieces of information.

I would recommend that you talk to the pastor about that and find out specifically what it would be required for. Then make your decision.

 

[Misty5054]

I’m very sorry about over reacting. It’s just that I’m so weirded out about being asked for my social security number. I was on the phone with my husband and can’t type and talk at the same time. He’s going to let me go to another parish, it’s 45 minutes away but hey the kids like sight seeing.

 

[YADA]

I’m very sorry about over reacting. It’s just that I’m so weirded out about being asked for my social security number. I was on the phone with my husband and can’t type and talk at the same time. He’s going to let me go to another parish, it’s 45 minutes away but hey the kids like sight seeing.

Its okay if you want to drive to another parish … you are probably not “invested” in any parish at this point in time… but I would at least seek clarification from this parish if it is the closest to you … just in case there was some mis-understanding …

And yes, sight seeing is fun … but every Sunday and Holiday of obligation might get old … and the time to go 45 minutes both directions will take away time spent in other pursuits … and sadly more often than not it is the Mass that gets eliminated …

 

[karl4]

I’m very sorry about over reacting. It’s just that I’m so weirded out about being asked for my social security number. I was on the phone with my husband and can’t type and talk at the same time. He’s going to let me go to another parish, it’s 45 minutes away but hey the kids like sight seeing.

Good for you!!!You will be in my familys prayers…may God bless you on your journey towards Rome.

 

[kage_ar]

If 45 minutes will not be a hardship - then that would be an option. Another option is to have an appointment with the Director of Religious Education and find out exactly what they are needing.

From my experience, what they need is your Baptismal certificate if you were Baptized. You would contact the congregation where you were baptized to get that. No SSN required.

The only thing that the Parish would need your SSN for would be a background check if you were volunteering to work with children/youth.

Seems there was a misunderstanding, please give them another chance.

 

[puzzleannie]

I can say I have been involved in RCIA for over 20 years and never had occasion to ask for a SSN. What is required for a candidate for baptism is a birth certificate so that identity and correct spelling of names, and parents can be established. Unless it is some issue related to marriage status or other canonical status that can only be proven by recourse to some civil record tied to SSN, I cannot imagine what it would be. In fact we are specifically discouraged from recording SSNs for privacy concerns.

If you really are convinced you belong in the Catholic Church because she teaches the truth, the actions of one individual should not deter you. Consult with the priest about the matter, not the deacon, RCIA director or catechist. If your conversion is genuine the actions of individual Catholics, even those with some authority, should not shake your faith. For confirmation read about Peter and Thomas and some of the other apostles who erred, vacillated and yet still were entrusted to spread the gospel.

the only reason we get SSNs is on a release for a criminal background check which is required of anyone who works with children or youth. That is not given by phone, it is a form filled out, signed and sent in by the individual. The form and results are sent to the pastor who keeps them under lock and key, and destroys them when the individual leaves the paid or volunteer position.

 

[EasterJoy]

I can say I have been involved in RCIA for over 20 years and never had occasion to ask for a SSN. What is required for a candidate for baptism is a birth certificate so that identity and correct spelling of names, and parents can be established. Unless it is some issue related to marriage status or other canonical status that can only be proven by recourse to some civil record tied to SSN, I cannot imagine what it would be. In fact we are specifically discouraged from recording SSNs for privacy concerns.

If you really are convinced you belong in the Catholic Church because she teaches the truth, the actions of one individual should not deter you. Consult with the priest about the matter, not the deacon, RCIA director or catechist. If your conversion is genuine the actions of individual Catholics, even those with some authority, should not shake your faith. For confirmation read about Peter and Thomas and some of the other apostles who erred, vacillated and yet still were entrusted to spread the gospel.

the only reason we get SSNs is on a release for a criminal background check which is required of anyone who works with children or youth. That is not given by phone, it is a form filled out, signed and sent in by the individual. The form and results are sent to the pastor who keeps them under lock and key, and destroys them when the individual leaves the paid or volunteer position.

Exactly. Even if she leaves the parish, she needs to discretely let those know about this who are in a position to make a note of it and correct it. The deacon is probably innocent, but a policy that would allow that kind of information-gathering is an invitation to an identity thief…the kind of thief who looks for a position of trust where the rules are conveniently lax.

 

[grandfather]

I don’t know if I’m posting this in the right place or not. If I’m not I’m sorry.

I was talking to the deacon he said he needs to get confirmation about a matter that I’m not going to get into here and needs my social security number which is something I never give out over the phone and since I have a meeting with him tomorrow anyway (I had called because I can’t find anyone to watch one of my little ones and wanted to see if it was okay for me to just take him along). When we hung up I called my husband and told him about it and he said “Honey, I have supported you through all of this but this is where I draw the line, you are not going to go and give them any kind of permission to dig around in your records. You can go back to the baptist church.” I sent an e-mail to the faith formation director about what my husband said. I want very much to join the church but I think my husband is right. Any suggestions on how to do this that will make everyone happy? I called the apologetics line last week but now her advice doesn’t seem as though it will work. I don’t want to go back to the baptist church because it just never felt right but when I went to mass the first time that feeling of something was wrong wasn’t there, that feeling is really hard to explain.

You may want to walk away from this parish and this deacon, but there is something wrong going on, and you might want to do the Church a service by helping correct it. The deacon is out of line. If it is parish policy the priest is out of line. If you want to help fix this be right up front about everything. Here is what I would do?

Tell the deacon that you thought his request for your ssn over the phone was very strange, and ask him what he intends to do with the number and why he needs it. Have a pad with you and write down his answers in front of him.

After he tells you what he needs your number for tell him you have brought it up to a number of people involved in RCIA in different locations and they all agreed that this was a very odd request and no one ever heard of it being done anywhere.

Tell him his request upset you and your husband and you will not give him your number, and that you are looking into the matter further as far as policy goes with the diocese.

If he says it is not his policy, but parish policy ask him who made the policy and you would like to speak with the person or committee so you can report what you find to the diocese.

Tell him you heard from quite a few Catholics on the matter and they unanimously said that they thought this was both unnecessary and very strange.

Don’t accept lame answers. After he tells you whatever he comes up with ask him if he minds repeating it all to your husband who is also unhappy.

Do you know if this man a full time employee of the parish or a volunteer?

God bless you.