McDonald's Can't Figure Out How Its Workers Survive on Minimum Wage

[TheWarriorMonk]

I’m not talking about paying “extra” – I’m talking about apportioning income into “taxable” compensation vice “non-taxable” allowances and then making those non-taxable allowances appropriate based upon the family situation of the employee. I am also not talking about making this a requirement…just about making something possible for employers who would like to do so (probably most wouldn’t).

The economy does not happen in a vacuum. When we are talking about tax benefits, it simply pushes the compensation from the employer to the general public. There is already plenty of public assistance available if one needs it.

There are employers out there who would like to be able to take better care of employees with families but who are unable to do so because of the “equal pay for equal work” principle.

I’ve been in business for a long time. I have yet to find one single person alive on this earth that has stated such a thing.

Lastly, I find it interesting that posters are looking to the U.S. military for an example, which has a unique set of circumstances that cannot be applied to the entire population, and nobody is looking to the Catholic Church and the way they pay their employees. Why not?..it doesn’t support your ideas and positions? Change starts at home.

 

[estesbob]

What “skills” are needed in a consumer economy? Even if one were to acquire the skills, the jobs to pay a living wage are gone. The opportunity is gone. The few kids that take college seriously, and graduate with a degree, can’t find work that pays the rent, let alone their college loan’s. Forget about starting a business. The barrier to entry is nearly impossible thank’s to capitalism killing competition. My kids will learn a trade even if they go to college. They will know welding, plumbing, engine maintenance, etc. I hope they go to Christendom college or another school for a classical education, but it will be mapped out, and practical. If everything fails they will be able to use their hands, and speak Latin at the same time

Pax,
Tarpeian

Nonsense.I had three people come in my office last week who were starting new businesses.

 

[Country_Gal]

There are many opportunities today. Getting a traditional college degree isn’t always necessary. Two of my grown sons make very good livings as software engineers and neither finished college. One of them works totally from home and his wife was able to quit her job. Another son went to technical college and is a HVAC guy. He’s always wanted to become a PE teacher and so saved money and will be doing that in the Philippines, where English is the language in the universities. He’ll be doing that at a Seventh Day Adventist university, without debt.

My daughters will be following my footsteps into nursing. There are many opportunities in the medical field.

People look nostalgically to yesteryear. Yet they still feel an iPhone, cable, 2 cars, electronics galore. They want prepackaged foods, restaurants, and a closet full of clothes. These are all expenses that make the cost of a ‘living wage’ much higher.

 

[markomalley]

The economy does not happen in a vacuum. When we are talking about tax benefits, it simply pushes the compensation from the employer to the general public. There is already plenty of public assistance available if one needs it.

I’ve been in business for a long time. I have yet to find one single person alive on this earth that has stated such a thing.

Lastly, I find it interesting that posters are looking to the U.S. military for an example, which has a unique set of circumstances that cannot be applied to the entire population, and nobody is looking to the Catholic Church and the way they pay their employees. Why not?..it doesn’t support your ideas and positions? Change starts at home.

The last two employers I worked for actually had to decrease their benefits given to employees due to tightening of federal law (which made it illegal for them to continue providing benefits at that level).

In the first case, an employer offered a secondary insurance policy as a pre-tax benefit that picked up the co-insurance and deductible from primary…making it so that the employee had zero out-of-pocket. In 2007, Congress prohibited that. So that went out the window as a pre-tax benefit.

In the second case, the employer had to significantly decrease the coverage of his health insurance to bring it down to the level authorized by Obamacare (it would have gotten the “Cadillac” policy surtax otherwise…)

“Public assistance” available. The principle of subsidiarity says that things should be done at the most immediate level possible. Would it then not make massive sense for “assistance” to be provided at this immediate level (the society that makes up a company) than to be provided by a far more distant level (the state…or even the federal…government)? I suppose, in the minds of some, it would be better to have an employee live in Section 8 subsidized housing and use an SNAP/EBT card at the grocery store rather than to encourage (through a deduction) an employer to pay a little more for those employees with families. I guess some people would say that this is the best and most efficient way of doing things. I’m not one of those people.

As far as the military being a “closed society” – not exactly.

We don’t have a draft in this country and haven’t had one for 40 years – so they don’t have a guaranteed workforce any more than any other organization on earth. While it is true the military is a “cost center” rather than a “profit center”, they are still required to recruit in a free market fashion from the same pool of candidates as civilian industry. This is not so much of a factor for new recruits straight out of school (due to the training benefits), but it is very true when it comes to retaining people. That particular formula seems to work for the most part in retaining people. If it didn’t, they’d have to figure something else out that did.

As for the Catholic Church not doing the “living wage” thing, why would they be any different than any other employer? You still have the situation where a married person with children having greater need to sustain himself and his family than a single person with no dependents. If a pay/allowance split was allowable, I have no doubt that they would do just that. But it isn’t. And in the meantime, their accounting still has to be balanced, just the same as any other organization’s.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

I thought the way American society compensates for families w/ dependent children vs singles was through tax credits & exemptions and similar mechanisms, as opposed to paying different wages for people of different family situations. Equal pay but unequal taxes. I’ve heard many single people gripe about that. But it’s probably more defensible than setting out to pay people differently based on whether they are married with kids vs single.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

McDonalds should just pay their workers in special tokens that can only be redeemed at McDonalds. They’d save loads of money.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

McDonalds should just pay their workers in special tokens that can only be redeemed at McDonalds. They’d save loads of money.

The return of the “Company Store”? This was popular concept for mining towns, etc years ago.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

The last two employers I worked for actually had to decrease their benefits given to employees due to tightening of federal law (which made it illegal for them to continue providing benefits at that level).

In the first case, an employer offered a secondary insurance policy as a pre-tax benefit that picked up the co-insurance and deductible from primary…making it so that the employee had zero out-of-pocket. In 2007, Congress prohibited that. So that went out the window as a pre-tax benefit.

In the second case, the employer had to significantly decrease the coverage of his health insurance to bring it down to the level authorized by Obamacare (it would have gotten the “Cadillac” policy surtax otherwise…)

The above has nothing to do with my point or the the point regarding “equal pay for equal work.”

As far as the military being a “closed society” – not exactly.

I never stated it was. The military has nothing in common with running a non-profit or for-profit business in a capitalist system. It is taxpayer funded. Such a system cannot be set up for the population as a whole (or more than a small percentage due to the costs involved) because that means the same people that are receiving the benefits are the same one’s paying for those same benefits.

As for the Catholic Church not doing the “living wage” thing, why would they be any different than any other employer? You still have the situation where a married person with children having greater need to sustain himself and his family than a single person with no dependents. If a pay/allowance split was allowable, I have no doubt that they would do just that. But it isn’t. And in the meantime, their accounting still has to be balanced, just the same as any other organization’s.

My point is that people are quoting the Church regarding this issue, then claiming that the Church supports their viewpoints, yet the Church doesn’t even run their business this way. So either the Church doesn’t live up to their own standards (i.e., is wrong in a matter of morals), or these people are misrepresenting the Church’s viewpoint. I’ll stick to the latter.

 

[aemcpa]

McDonalds should just pay their workers in special tokens that can only be redeemed at McDonalds. They’d save loads of money.

You load sixteen tons, and whaddya get? Another day older and deeper in debt. St. Peter, don’t ya call me, 'cause I can’t go - I owe my soul to the company store.

 

[Tarpeian]

That is a patently false statement. There are any number of opportunities out there for people with skills and education in the correct fields. If you are in engineering, computer science, IT, bio-tech, or (much of) health care, you will have no issues finding a job. There is an incredible lack of skilled trades out there…people who learn those skills will have very little issue with finding employment. You acknowledge that for your own kids: because that is where the jobs are.

If somebody went out and invested years into getting a history, English, psychology, or theater degree, they are going to have a far harder time of it. That’s always been the case, though, hasn’t it?

That is not a “patently false statement.” The last source I viewed had the U.S. economy at 60% consumer driven. Opportunities do exist in the “correct fields” as you state, but these jobs are a select portion of the workforce. Unfortunately even “skilled” employees are nothing more than a commodity. Even these jobs at times fail to pay a living wage. There are some exceptions, but they are exceptions. Young kid’s need to be very selective when choosing a field and school. Our youth are facing enough challenges left to them, “by the greediest generation” They don’t need to be buried under college loan’s for the first ten years after graduation.

Pax,
Tarpeian

 

[aemcpa]

That is not a “patently false statement.” The last source I viewed had the U.S. economy at 60% consumer driven. Opportunities do exist in the “correct fields” as you state, but these jobs are a select portion of the workforce. Unfortunately even “skilled” employees are nothing more than a commodity. Even these jobs at times fail to pay a living wage. There are some exceptions, but they are exceptions. Young kid’s need to be very selective when choosing a field and school. Our youth are facing enough challenges left to them, “by the greediest generation” They don’t need to be buried under college loan’s for the first ten years after graduation.

Pax,
Tarpeian

They shouldn’t be taking college loans to begin with. Government subsidies artificially increase demand, and do so inelastically.

 

[powerofk]

They shouldn’t be taking college loans to begin with. Government subsidies artificially increase demand, and do so inelastically.

While I agree that people should try their hardest to not use college loans, the fact of the matter is that, for many people, loans are the only way a post-secondary education can be afforded. And post-secondary education here is not just talking about a traditional 4-year university - it’s community colleges, for-profit diploma mills, and even trade schools. The poor can generally use Pell Grants, the rich can pay for it completely out of their own pockets, and the fortunate get a full scholarship. For the rest? Loans. Many of us are here stating that people who only have the skills to work at McDonald’s deserve only minimum wage, and now we’re stating that people should not use every option available to acquire the skills that they could use to get paid more? Please.

On a rather important note, LifeSiteNews recently conducted an interview on how these megacorps feed into the Culture of Death by (a) funding abortion, sterilization, and contraception around the world, (b) shaming employees into minimizing children, (c) and not providing enough money so that a parent can stay home with the children, etc. Read the interview here.

 

[markomalley]

That is not a “patently false statement.” The last source I viewed had the U.S. economy at 60% consumer driven. Opportunities do exist in the “correct fields” as you state, but these jobs are a select portion of the workforce. Unfortunately even “skilled” employees are nothing more than a commodity. Even these jobs at times fail to pay a living wage. There are some exceptions, but they are exceptions. Young kid’s need to be very selective when choosing a field and school. Our youth are facing enough challenges left to them, “by the greediest generation” They don’t need to be buried under college loan’s for the first ten years after graduation.

Pax,
Tarpeian

For a history major or an English major or a psych major, they may have a hard time affording that Beemer and the 80 inch LCD for their McMansion. They may not be able to make a video on their iPhone 20.

There are any number of jobs that will pay a living wage:

If a workman’s wages be sufficient to enable him comfortably to support himself, his wife, and his children, he will find it easy, if he be a sensible man, to practice thrift, and he will not fail, by cutting down expenses, to put by some little savings and thus secure a modest source of income.

 

[aemcpa]

While I agree that people should try their hardest to not use college loans, the fact of the matter is that, for many people, loans are the only way a post-secondary education can be afforded. And post-secondary education here is not just talking about a traditional 4-year university - it’s community colleges, for-profit diploma mills, and even trade schools. The poor can generally use Pell Grants, the rich can pay for it completely out of their own pockets, and the fortunate get a full scholarship. For the rest? Loans. Many of us are here stating that people who only have the skills to work at McDonald’s deserve only minimum wage, and now we’re stating that people should not use every option available to acquire the skills that they could use to get paid more? Please.

On a rather important note, LifeSiteNews recently conducted an interview on how these megacorps feed into the Culture of Death by (a) funding abortion, sterilization, and contraception around the world, (b) shaming employees into minimizing children, (c) and not providing enough money so that a parent can stay home with the children, etc. Read the interview here.

I don’t object to the idea of college loans per se. However, there are millions of people for whom going to college doesn’t make financial sense but who do so because they’re told that “you need to go to college”. A lot of kids who don’t even graduate are still stuck with their loans, as are kids who graduate but never wind up in their field of study, etc. Spending those four or five years in a trade school, apprenticeship, or just working your way up through a company would have been better financially for many of those kids, but they’re all funneled into college enabled by billions in government subsidized debt.

 

[SamH]

I don’t object to the idea of college loans per se. However, there are millions of people for whom going to college doesn’t make financial sense but who do so because they’re told that “you need to go to college”.

And the people telling them that do so because of their own limited life experiences. I don’t know how many people I’ve heard say “They should at least try college”. Which is great except the student usually takes out a student loan for this “life experience” and after a year or drop out with nothing to show for their $20,000 to $30,000 of debt. What they need to tell them is "You need to go out and get a job and figure out if you want to go to college or vo-tech. And teachers need to quit treating vo tech school as if they were schools for the stupid.

 

[april32010]

And the people telling them that do so because of their own limited life experiences. I don’t know how many people I’ve heard say “They should at least try college”. Which is great except the student usually takes out a student loan for this “life experience” and after a year or drop out with nothing to show for their $20,000 to $30,000 of debt. What they need to tell them is "You need to go out and get a job and figure out if you want to go to college or vo-tech. And teachers need to quit treating vo tech school as if they were schools for the stupid.

 

[kookieduck]

For a history major or an English major or a psych major, they may have a hard time affording that Beemer and the 80 inch LCD for their McMansion. They may not be able to make a video on their iPhone 20.

There are any number of jobs that will pay a living wage:

If a workman’s wages be sufficient to enable him comfortably to support himself, his wife, and his children, he will find it easy, if he be a sensible man, to practice thrift, and he will not fail, by cutting down expenses, to put by some little savings and thus secure a modest source of income.

Ha ha! Yeah, that’s what hubby and I did…until he got sick and required a few surgeries. Then, suddenly, we had medical bills equal to our car and house payment! Our budget was fine until then. Watch your savings vanish when that happens. Then, even when you have been living modestly, watch as your bills grow and grow and grow. The plans of mice and men.

 

[aemcpa]

And teachers need to quit treating vo tech school as if they were schools for the stupid.

Yes. Exactly.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

With regard to colleges, for many no thought goes into the process. There is no reason to travel to other states and pay full tuition when a state school may offer the same program for a fraction of the cost. This are exceptions, such as high paying specialty jobs where the education isn’t available elsewhere (e.g., various medical professions) or where the place of education matters (e.g., certain major law firms may require an Ivy League Education).

 

[october_baby]

This will vary across the country. Where I live, $600/month rent simply does not exist. The cheapest rent anywhere for your own place is in the mid-$800 range, for a converted motel room or something similar, is usually not in good shape to boot, and not common anyway. Expect to spend about $1,200 a month and up for anything with a separate bedroom. At the $600/month level its usually a group of people getting together and sharing.

There are rooming houses where you pay $250-$450 rent a month, you share a kitchen and bathroom. they are usually dirty and your neighbors leave a lot to be desired.