Mea Culpa in EF

[TrueLight]

Hello liturgical experts!

At the parish I attend, I notice that in solemn Masses where more than one priest is serving, the priest who is acting as server says a whole phrase in a very loud voice (at the prayers for Holy Communion) part, which includes “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa”.

This is before the priest makes the sign of the cross towards the servers and the congregation makes the sign of the cross as well. And then eventually the “Ecce Agnus Dei” and “Domine non sum dignus” parts come.

I can’t find the mea culpa in my missal.

Is this an addition to the 1962 mass?

 

[EmeraldWings]

Hello liturgical experts!

At the parish I attend, I notice that in solemn Masses where more than one priest is serving, the priest who is acting as server says a whole phrase in a very loud voice (at the prayers for Holy Communion) part, which includes “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa”.

This is before the priest makes the sign of the cross towards the servers and the congregation makes the sign of the cross as well. And then eventually the “Ecce Agnus Dei” and “Domine non sum dignus” parts come.

I can’t find the mea culpa in my missal.

Is this an addition to the 1962 mass?

that is part of the Confiteor -
*
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti, beatae Mariae semper Virgini, beato Michaeli Archangelo, beato Joanni Baptistae, sanctis Apostolis Petro et Paulo, omnibus Sanctis, et vobis, fratres (et tibi pater), quia peccavi nimis cogitatione, verbo et opere: mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper Virginem, beatum Michaelem Archangelum, beatum Joannem Baptistam, sanctos Apostolos Petrum et Paulum, omnes Sanctos, et vos, fratres (et te, pater), orare pro me ad Dominum Deum nostrum. Amen. *

translation -

*I confess to almighty God, to blessed Mary ever Virgin, to blessed Michael the archangel, to blessed John the Baptist, to the holy apostles Peter and Paul, to all the saints, and to you my brothers (and to thee, father) that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word, and deed, through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault. Therefore, I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin, blessed Michael the archangel, blessed John the Baptist, the holy apostles Peter and Paul, and all the saints, to pray for me to the Lord our God. Amen. *

this prayer is said at the beginning of mass, and before Communion.
at the beginning of mass it is first said by the priest, and then by the servers, and before communion it is said by the servers and may also be said by the congregation,

after the priest says his Confiteor prayer, the servers pray - Misereatur tui omnipotens Deus, et dimissis peccatis tuis, perducat te ad vitam aeternam. which means - May almighty God have mercy upon thee and forgive thee thy sins, and bring thee to life everlasting. then the priest says “Amen.”
after that the servers say their Confiteor prayer, after which the priest says - *Misereatur vestri omnipotens Deus, et dimissis peccatis vestris, perducat vos ad vitam aeternam. *which means - May almighty God have mercy on you and forgive you your sins, and bring you to life everlasting. and the servers say “Amen.” after which the priest says Indulgentiam, + absolutionem et remissionem peccatorum nostrorum, tribuat nobis omnipotens et misericors Dominus. which means - May the almighty and merciful Lord grant us pardon, + absolution, and remission of our sins. at which everyone makes the sign of the cross, and afterwords says “Amen.”

 

[TrueLight]

that is part of the Confiteor -
*
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti, beatae Mariae semper Virgini, beato Michaeli Archangelo, beato Joanni Baptistae, sanctis Apostolis Petro et Paulo, omnibus Sanctis, et vobis, fratres (et tibi pater), quia peccavi nimis cogitatione, verbo et opere: mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa*. Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper Virginem, beatum Michaelem Archangelum, beatum Joannem Baptistam, sanctos Apostolos Petrum et Paulum, omnes Sanctos, et vos, fratres (et te, pater), orare pro me ad Dominum Deum nostrum. Amen.

translation -

I confess to almighty God, to blessed Mary ever Virgin, to blessed Michael the archangel, to blessed John the Baptist, to the holy apostles Peter and Paul, to all the saints, and to you my brothers (and to thee, father) that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word, and deed, through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault. Therefore, I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin, blessed Michael the archangel, blessed John the Baptist, the holy apostles Peter and Paul, and all the saints, to pray for me to the Lord our God. Amen.

this prayer is said at the beginning of mass, and before Communion.
at the beginning of mass it is first said by the priest, and then by the servers, and before communion it is said by the servers and may also be said by the congregation,

after the priest says his Confiteor prayer, the servers pray - Misereatur tui omnipotens Deus, et dimissis peccatis tuis, perducat te ad vitam aeternam. which means - May almighty God have mercy upon thee and forgive thee thy sins, and bring thee to life everlasting. then the priest says “Amen.”
after that the servers say their Confiteor prayer, after which the priest says - *Misereatur vestri omnipotens Deus, et dimissis peccatis vestris, perducat vos ad vitam aeternam. *which means - May almighty God have mercy on you and forgive you your sins, and bring you to life everlasting. and the servers say “Amen.” after which the priest says Indulgentiam, + absolutionem et remissionem peccatorum nostrorum, tribuat nobis omnipotens et misericors Dominus. which means - May the almighty and merciful Lord grant us pardon, + absolution, and remission of our sins. at which everyone makes the sign of the cross, and afterwords says “Amen.”

Thanks so much.

Does it occur in between the consecration and communion?

Also, I only hear it when there are two priests, the celebrant and one that acts as a server.

The Celebrant is usually facing the altar and the server is standing sideways to the congregation and he bows when he says the confiteor.

 

[EmeraldWings]

Thanks so much.

Does it occur in between the consecration and communion?

yes, right before the “Ecce Agnus dei” and “Domine, non sum dignus”

Also, I only hear it when there are two priests, the celebrant and one that acts as a server.

The Celebrant is usually facing the altar and the server is standing sideways to the congregation and he bows when he says the confiteor.

traditionally it is always said by the priest and servers at the times i already mentioned, but i’m not sure how it would be done with two priests, since i haven’t seen it done very often, and i haven’t read anything on it, but in that case, unless someone else knows, i would say just ask your priest.

but if you really want to know all the prayers and reasons for them and how to say them and what everything in the mass means, check out this book here - tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/719

and this one is also helpful - tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/745

 

[secondeve]

The second Priest is not called a “server” but “deacon”. The second confiiteor is said or sung in Solemn HIgh Mass. In Missa Cantata it is spoken by the server(s), probably not aloud so you won’t hear it.

The second confiteor, which is said just before the Communion of the people, was made optional with the 1962 missal, and many Priests omit it. It is a throwback to the times when people received Communion only outside Mass.

 

[TrueLight]

yes, right before the “Ecce Agnus dei” and “Domine, non sum dignus”

traditionally it is always said by the priest and servers at the times i already mentioned, but i’m not sure how it would be done with two priests, since i haven’t seen it done very often, and i haven’t read anything on it, but in that case, unless someone else knows, i would say just ask your priest.

but if you really want to know all the prayers and reasons for them and how to say them and what everything in the mass means, check out this book here - tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/719

and this one is also helpful - tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/745

I have that Latin mass explained book. It really taught me a lot!

If anyone has an Angelus Press Roman Missal, can you point me to which page it is on or which numbered section?

 

[MarkThompson]

The second confiteor, which is said just before the Communion of the people, was made optional with the 1962 missal, and many Priests omit it. It is a throwback to the times when people received Communion only outside Mass.

Actually, it was made forbidden in the 1962 missal. No. 503 of the Rubricae Generales Missalis Romani orders:
503. Quoties sancta Communio infra Missam distribuitur, celebrans, sumpto sacratissimo Sanguine, omissis confessione et absolutione, dictis tamen Ecce Agnus Dei et ter Domine, non sum dignus, immediate ad distributionem sanctae Eucharistiae procedit.
My translation:
503. Whenever holy Communion is distributed within the Mass, the celebrant, having taken the most sacred Blood, the confession and absolution having been omitted, the Ecce Agnus Dei and triple Domine, non sum dignus however being said, proceeds immediately to the distribution of the holy Eucharist.
In other words, this practice is expressly forbidden by the black-and-white text of the Missale.

To be clear, the confiteor and absolutio here (which are not, of course, a genuine Confession and Absolution) were historically not part of the Mass at all. Rather, as you say, Communion was distributed to the faithful at Mass so infrequently that a separate rite for distributing Communion outside of Mass was invented, and this rite had a confiteor and absolutio at the beginning of it. Eventually the Communion rite was integrated back into the Mass, but it brought its confiteor and absolutio along with it, even through these were already done in their proper place at the beginning of the Mass. And although some people think “but this is the one the people get to say,” in reality there was never any sort of rubric directing the people to say the second confiteor at all. Quite to the contrary, the pre-1962 rubric prescribed explicitly that at this point “minister . . . pro eis facit Confessionem, dicens Confiteor Deo etc.” (the minister makes the confession for them, saying Confiteor Deo etc.").

 

[TrueLight]

Actually, it was made forbidden in the 1962 missal. No. 503 of the Rubricae Generales Missalis Romani orders:
503. Quoties sancta Communio infra Missam distribuitur, celebrans, sumpto sacratissimo Sanguine, omissis confessione et absolutione, dictis tamen Ecce Agnus Dei et ter Domine, non sum dignus, immediate ad distributionem sanctae Eucharistiae procedit.
My translation:
503. Whenever holy Communion is distributed within the Mass, the celebrant, having taken the most sacred Blood, the confession and absolution having been omitted, the Ecce Agnus Dei and triple Domine, non sum dignus however being said, proceeds immediately to the distribution of the holy Eucharist.
In other words, this practice is expressly forbidden by the black-and-white text of the Missale.

To be clear, the confiteor and absolutio here (which are not, of course, a genuine Confession and Absolution) were historically not part of the Mass at all. Rather, as you say, Communion was distributed to the faithful at Mass so infrequently that a separate rite for distributing Communion outside of Mass was invented, and this rite had a confiteor and absolutio at the beginning of it. Eventually the Communion rite was integrated back into the Mass, but it brought its confiteor and absolutio along with it, even through these were already done in their proper place at the beginning of the Mass. And although some people think “but this is the one the people get to say,” in reality there was never any sort of rubric directing the people to say the second confiteor at all. Quite to the contrary, the pre-1962 rubric prescribed explicitly that at this point “minister . . . pro eis facit Confessionem, dicens Confiteor Deo etc.” (the minister makes the confession for them, saying Confiteor Deo etc.").

That’s interesting. In this case only the priest-server says it from what I could see, when there are more than 2 priests present and only during a solemn mass.

So you’re saying it was outlawed? This is interesting as well because this parish is very traditional.` Do you find that most EF masses omit it?

 

[MarkThompson]

So you’re saying it was outlawed? This is interesting as well because this parish is very traditional.` Do you find that most EF masses omit it?

Yes, it was explicitly eliminated; and I haven’t been to most EF Masses, so I can’t speak to what is the prevailing practice.

I have, I should say, heard that at some point some sort of indult was given to somebody to continue doing this, or (in other versions of the tale) that someone once asked some functionary in the PCED about it and was informally told, “Well, if it’s the custom then they are allowed to do it.” I have never seen any evidence of this, however.

 

[TrueLight]

Yes, it was explicitly eliminated; and I haven’t been to most EF Masses, so I can’t speak to what is the prevailing practice.

I have, I should say, heard that at some point some sort of indult was given to somebody to continue doing this, or (in other versions of the tale) that someone once asked some functionary in the PCED about it and was informally told, “Well, if it’s the custom then they are allowed to do it.” I have never seen any evidence of this, however.

Thanks for the background information.

No wonder I was totally lost trying to find it in my missal.

For anyone who regularly attends the EF, is the Confiteor included between the consecration and communion in your parish?

 

[secondeve]

Actually, some liturgists claim that the text you have quoted does not in fact forbid the second confiteor, despite the words used. However, I have just read that ECCLESIA DEI said in 2008 that it is in fact forbidden so I would have thought that settled it. I am sorry for my misleading post. Certainly there are still plenty of Priests (including the “user-friendly” ones) who retain it. Personally I think it would be churlish to make a great fuss about it. Whether it is a good or bad thing is, of course, an entirely different matter.

Thank you for correcting my mistake.

 

[MarkThompson]

Thanks for the background information.

No wonder I was totally lost trying to find it in my missal.

For anyone who regularly attends the EF, is the Confiteor included between the consecration and communion in your parish?

Even in older missals, it was not located where you would think in the Order of Mass, but only described in the Ritus celebrandi missam at the beginning. Well, maybe in a handmissal it would have been given at the appropriate spot, I don’t know.

 

[malphono]

Yes, it was explicitly eliminated; and I haven’t been to most EF Masses, so I can’t speak to what is the prevailing practice.

I have, I should say, heard that at some point some sort of indult was given to somebody to continue doing this, or (in other versions of the tale) that someone once asked some functionary in the PCED about it and was informally told, “Well, if it’s the custom then they are allowed to do it.” I have never seen any evidence of this, however.

The second (where this is customary…") is the only version of the story that I’ve ever heard. I presume it’s accurate, and i have to say it’s a shame. That second confiteor (actually the entire rite of communion outside of Mass) is a bug bear of mine. I’ve no idea why or how it was incorporated in the Missal. It’s absolutely extraneous and really has no place.

Oh, and before anyone jumps down my throat, for those who don’t already know, I am someone who is strictly an Usus Antiquior person and who has more than a passing knowledge of liturgy, Oriental, Western, and Eastern.

 

[malphono]

Even in older missals, it was not located where you would think in the Order of Mass, but only described in the Ritus celebrandi missam at the beginning. Well, maybe in a handmissal it would have been given at the appropriate spot, I don’t know.

Yes, that’s correct. On both counts.

 

[MarkThompson]

Actually, some liturgists claim that the text you have quoted does not in fact forbid the second confiteor, despite the words used.

I would be interested to know (and I mean that in the non-sarcastic way!) what the argument is for that point of view.

However, I have just read that ECCLESIA DEI said in 2008 that it is in fact forbidden so I would have thought that settled it.

Is that right? Other than general statements that the missale to be followed is the 1962 and not any previous version, I wasn’t aware that PCED had issued any explicit ruling on the issue.

I am sorry for my misleading post. Certainly there are still plenty of Priests (including the “user-friendly” ones) who retain it. Personally I think it would be churlish to make a great fuss about it. Whether it is a good or bad thing is, of course, an entirely different matter.

Agreed; the churlish fuss should be saved for those priests who insist on saying the Perfidious Jews prayer.

 

[corsair]

Interesting discussion. The FSSP parish that I attend uses the second Confiteor as does the Dominican Rite Mass that we attend on ocassion. Granted, the two Confiteors are somewhat different but they are still used.

 

[ProVobis]

Granted, the two Confiteors are somewhat different but they are still used.

For an attentive observer that would be the third Confiteor. At the onset of the Mass, a separate Confiteor is said by the priest and server(s). The issue is whether the server should recite his second confiteor (with a second absolution from the priest) right before the communion of the faithful. Some servers don’t; some do. And sometimes the priest gives his second absolution without the servers’ second confiteor.