Meaning of Luke 23: 29-31

[bindybox]

Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep instead for yourselves and for your children,
for indeed, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed.’
At that time people will say to the mountains, ‘Fall upon us!’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us!’
for if these things are done when the wood is green what will happen when it is dry?”

It seems an easy interpretation to me: Jesus likes babies, and condemns a time when people will not like babies.
What is the** official **interpretation of it (in the Catechism, theologians, etc.)?
Is there an Old Testament reference to it?

Thanks!

 

[savedsinner]

Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep instead for yourselves and for your children,
for indeed, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed.’
At that time people will say to the mountains, ‘Fall upon us!’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us!’
for if these things are done when the wood is green what will happen when it is dry?”

It seems an easy interpretation to me: Jesus likes babies, and condemns a time when people will not like babies.
What is the** official **interpretation of it (in the Catechism, theologians, etc.)?
Is there an Old Testament reference to it?

Thanks!

I would guess that this passage is Jesus warning them about the destruction of Jerusalem which would occur in 70 AD.
I think it was Josephus that wrote of women canibalizing their children during the siege of the city by the Romans.

 

[quasimodo]

Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep instead for yourselves and for your children,
for indeed, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed.’
At that time people will say to the mountains, ‘Fall upon us!’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us!’
for if these things are done when the wood is green what will happen when it is dry?”

It seems an easy interpretation to me: Jesus likes babies, and condemns a time when people will not like babies.
What is the** official **interpretation of it (in the Catechism, theologians, etc.)?
Is there an Old Testament reference to it?

Thanks!

first - likely there is no “official” interpretation

second - it is likely that savedsinner is right - except that I have never heard of cannibalism from that time. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen - just that I never heard of it

 

[NotWorthy]

second - it is likely that savedsinner is right - except that I have never heard of cannibalism from that time. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen - just that I never heard of it

The Jewish historian Josephus writes of mothers cooking and eating their own children during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Jesus is talking of the destruction of Jerusalem. These women who are mourning for Jesus will most likely produce the generation that rebels against Rome and bring the Eagles Legions into Rome for destruction.

An interesting note on the destruction of the Temple that I came across the other day. Jesus prophecied that no stone will remain standing in the Temple on the great and terrible day.

When the Romans sacked Jerusalem, they burned the Temple. There was so much gold inland within the interior of the Temple, that when it melted in infiltrated between the stone of the temple before hardening again. The Romans had to overturn the stones to get the sheets of gold out of them. This gold returned to Rome, and was a major contribution to the construction of the Roman Coliseum.

 

[puzzleannie]

Jesus was speaking to the Jews, specifically to the Jewish women, prophesying the greatest tragedy these people could comprehend, the destruction of the Temple, their dispersion, once more, and destruction of the core of their worship and way of life, as the very law they lived by would be redundant, with no means of observing its commands. His analogy of himself, earlier in his preaching, as the Temple who would be destroyed and rise in 3 days must also be seen in light of the importance of the Temple. In other words, there can be no other law than his, because he is the Temple wherein the presecriptions of the law are carried out.

 

[oksoitworked]

judaismvschristianity.com/abortion.htm

For behold, days are coming in which men will say, ‘Blessd are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and breasts that never nursed.’

Links to interesting article regarding Luke 23:29. The thesis is that this passage is referring directly to our current time period.

The basic idea is that the aramaic / hebrew word for “barren” also means “to suffer abortion / miscarriage”. The wombs that never bore meaning never having given birth because born is different from conceived (so implicitly, wombs that have conceived but never bore). And it’s **men **(not God) who are saying these things because nowadays, we like our sex without consequences.

Pretty accurate description of our current time. Now we have to look forward to the trees and mountains covering us.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

In discussing the Stations of the Cross, Father Nisbet commented on this at the Eighth Station. Jesus is saying this is the result of sin. It is more important that they mourn for the sins that caused it.

We too tend to mourn more for the results of our sins than for the sins themselves. A case in point might be homosexual marriage. We need to repent and mourn the artificial birth control and divorce that destroyed the concept of marriage before the homosexuals ever thought of getting married.

 

[ryanoneil]

I agree it is the destruction of the Temple.

The kings of the earth, the nobles, the military officers, the rich, the powerful, and every slave and free person hid themselves in caves and among mountain crags. They cried out to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, (Rev 6:15-16)

 

[Strategery]

I agree it is the destruction of the Temple.

The ancient church agrees. Here’s what Aquinas’ Catena Aurea says, along with women being prone to cry …

BEDE; A large multitude indeed followed the cross of Christ, but with very different feelings. For the people who had demanded his death were rejoicing that they should see Him dying, the women weeping that he was about to die. But He was followed by the weeping only of women. Not because that vast crowd of men was not also sorrowful at His Passion, but because the less esteemed female sex could more freely give utterance to what they thought.

CYRIL; Women also are ever prone to tears, and have hearts easily disposed to pity.

THEOPHYL. He bids those who weep for him cast their eyes forward to the evils that were coming, and weep for themselves.

CYRIL; Signifying that in the time to come women would be bereft of their children. For when war breaks out upon the land of the Jews. All shall perish, both small and great. Hence it follows, For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, &c.

THEOPHYL. **Seeing indeed that women shall cruelly roast their children, and the belly which had produced shall miserably again receive that which it bore. **

BEDE; By these miserably again receive that which it bore.

BEDE; **By these days He signifies the time of the siege and captivity which was coming upon them from the Romans, **of which He had said before, Woe to them that are with child, and give suck in those days. It is natural, when captivity by an enemy is threatening, to seek for refuge in fastnesses or hidden places, where men may lie concealed. And so it follows, Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. For Josephus relates, that when the Romans pressed hard upon them, the Jews sought hastily the caverns of the mountains, and the lurking places in the hills. It may be also that the words, Blessed are the barren, are to be understood of those of both sexes, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake, and that it is said to the mountains and hills, Fall upon us, and Cover us, because all who are mindful of their own weakness, when the crisis of their temptations breaks upon them, have sought to be protected by the example, precept, and prayers, of certain high and saintly men.

 

[ryanoneil]

Compair

**for indeed, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed.’ (Luke 23:29)

Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days.
(Mat 24:19)**

 

[lisareink]

As in most statements regarding prophecy, the Church also teaches a past, present, future possiblity. This statement was true at the time of the Babylonian Captivity, at the time of the Slaughter of the Innocents, at the time of the Roman Martyrdom, and will be true throughout the Ages of the Church, such as at the time of the Black Death, but seems to have a particular bittersweet interpretation as we see the loathing of children now in our society as never before. Yet I’m sure the most telling day shall be in the time of anti-christ, when all the Flock is persecuted as never before. The last line of this verse is the most telling - “For if they say this when the wood is green, what about when it is dry?” Many would say that in these days of apostasy, the wood is pretty dry.

 

[TimothyH]

A followup to the posts which mentioned cannibalism…

Then the king asked her, “What is your trouble?” She replied: “This woman said to me, ‘Give up your son that we may eat him today; then tomorrow we will eat my son.’ So we boiled my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, ‘Now give up your son that we may eat him.’ But she hid her son.” When the king heard the woman’s words, he tore his garments. (2 Kings 6:28-30)

This was during the time of the prophet Elisha, when the city of Jerusalem was under siege. That this would happen, and that it was a punishment, part of the curse for not keeping the commandments of God’s covenant, was very clearly told to the Israelites by God through Moses in the Book of Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy 28 has a section outlining the blessings for obedience, and then goes into great detail about the curses which would befall the Israelites for disobedience, including this passage;

They will besiege you in every community throughout the land which the LORD, your God, has given you, and because of the siege and the distress to which your enemy subjects you, you will eat the fruit of your womb, the flesh of your own sons and daughters whom the LORD, your God, has given you. The most refined and fastidious man among you will begrudge his brother and his beloved wife and his surviving children, any share in the flesh of his children that he himself is using for food because nothing else is left him—such the siege and distress to which your enemy will subject you in all your communities. (Deuteronomy 28:52-55)

Remember that Jerusalem was destroyed before 70 AD, by the Assyrians who took the Northern ten tribes of Isreal into captivity in the years between 740BC and 720BC. Later the Assyrians took the souther tribes of Judah and Benjamin into captivity (exile) and destroyed Jerusalem, and this was the time when Elijiah and Elisha operated (if I remember correctly).

The cannibalism which happened during the siege of Jerusalem as a result of covenant disobediance, as well as the subsequent deportation of the Jews into exile was fulfilled prophecy, and it was a black spot in the history of the nation. If Jesus prophesied about a second destruction of Jerusalem, which we know did happen in 70AD, then it is not unlikely that the people listening to his prophecy would have harkened back to the first destruction at the time of the great exile and all the woes which befell Israel at that time, including the cannibalism which took place.

-Tim-

 

[bogeydogg]

Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon in 597 BC and by Rome in 70 AD in both cases the sieges were so long and cruels that cannibalism took place.

I agree that Jesus is warning the women to not for Him because He knows that for which He is suffering and counts it nothing for the joy set before ( hebrews) namely His Church. But for the women who mourn for Him, the time would come when they would mourn for themselves and none would mourn for them.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus says that the days will come when gentiles would surround the Holy City and in those days the people were to flee to the mountains. Now common practice at the time was to run to the city because the cities had high walls and armies and provided the best protection against invading armies. However, according to Josephus as well as another Roman historian (Seneca?) the followers of the Christian Sect did not run to the city but fled away at the advance of the Roman army.

Now there are many who doubt Jesus’ predictive prophecies about the destruction of Jerusalem but the behavior of His followers is very odd if no such prophesy existed. Just a fun footnote.

But for those who remained in Jerusalem what happened in 70 AD was not less than a holocaust. A million Jews died by some estimation and following a second invasion in 130 AD I believe the Jewish state was destroyed utterly and wiped away in the diaspora.

Jesus is telling those who would cry for Him to mourn for themselves because they are sinners in need of His salvation and the day will come God will cease to have mercy on those who rebel against His Law. The Bible gives us several examples.

Egypt. Canaan. Samaria. Assyria. Judah. Babylon. Persia.

And history tells us of…

Greece. Rome. Spain. Britain. France. Germany. USSR.

The message Jesus gives is quite clear. The world is full of sorrows and tears, but the ones we should shed are first for our own sins and for the sins of those nearest and dearest to us which is why if we hear His Word today we should not harden our hearts but seek Him where He may be found.

Namely His Church.

Then weep for the world and the knowledge that one day God will cease to have mercy on our corner of it as well.

God Bless

 

[joannazenobia]

Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon in 597 BC and by Rome in 70 AD in both cases the sieges were so long and cruels that cannibalism took place.

I agree that Jesus is warning the women to not for Him because He knows that for which He is suffering and counts it nothing for the joy set before ( hebrews) namely His Church. But for the women who mourn for Him, the time would come when they would mourn for themselves and none would mourn for them.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus says that the days will come when gentiles would surround the Holy City and in those days the people were to flee to the mountains. Now common practice at the time was to run to the city because the cities had high walls and armies and provided the best protection against invading armies. However, according to Josephus as well as another Roman historian (Seneca?) the followers of the Christian Sect did not run to the city but fled away at the advance of the Roman army.

Now there are many who doubt Jesus’ predictive prophecies about the destruction of Jerusalem but the behavior of His followers is very odd if no such prophesy existed. Just a fun footnote.

But for those who remained in Jerusalem what happened in 70 AD was not less than a holocaust. A million Jews died by some estimation and following a second invasion in 130 AD I believe the Jewish state was destroyed utterly and wiped away in the diaspora.

Jesus is telling those who would cry for Him to mourn for themselves because they are sinners in need of His salvation and the day will come God will cease to have mercy on those who rebel against His Law. The Bible gives us several examples.

Egypt. Canaan. Samaria. Assyria. Judah. Babylon. Persia.

And history tells us of…

Greece. Rome. Spain. Britain. France. Germany. USSR.

The message Jesus gives is quite clear. The world is full of sorrows and tears, but the ones we should shed are first for our own sins and for the sins of those nearest and dearest to us which is why if we hear His Word today we should not harden our hearts but seek Him where He may be found.

Namely His Church.

Then weep for the world and the knowledge that one day God will cease to have mercy on our corner of it as well.

God Bless

Did a Google search on meaning of this passage. I like the interpretations. But may I add, that many interpretations have a past, present, and future representation. Like the Arc of the Covenant that held the Ten Commandments was a symbol for the future Arc of the Covenant, namely Bl. Mother who held the word of God in her womb. Noah’s Arc= The Church.

Remember, that our Lord also meant for us to understand that the Temple is also refered to the Human Body as the Temple of the Holy spirit. Destruction of the Temple could have been a symbol for the future Dstruction of the human Bodies, namely babies in the womb. Its the same evil, repackaged with a different name.