Meaning of The Bronze Serpent?

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Why would a physical crucifix help us know about Jesus? It is an image that does not contain words other that INRI. An image without words is speachless. The words of John say more about repentence and forgiveness than a crucifix.
A crucifix is an image of a tortured man suffering and dying on a device created by men for the explicit purpose of killing people in the most excruciating (“ex-CRUC-iating”) way possible.

While I agree that words are better at explaining things, images are more effective, once one knows the subject matter (has an initial “training” [catechesis]) at deepening our “visceral” understanding.

The difference between words and images is the difference between between explanation of others partial understandings and meditation on one’s own partial understandings.
 
A crucifix is an image of a tortured man suffering and dying on a device created by men for the explicit purpose of killing people in the most excruciating (“ex-CRUC-iating”) way possible.

While I agree that words are better at explaining things, images are more effective, once one knows the subject matter (has an initial “training” [catechesis]) at deepening our “visceral” understanding.

The difference between words and images is the difference between between explanation of others partial understandings and meditation on one’s own partial understandings.
So would you say images can only help us recall what we already know and we cannot learn new doctines that we did not know already when we look at a crucifix?
 
The following is taken from the 12th Tractate of Augustine on the Gospel of John. Enjoy!

“He endured death, then; but death He hanged on the cross, and mortal men are delivered from death. The Lord calls to mind a great matter, which was done in a figure with them of old: ‘And as Moses,’ says He, ‘lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up; that every one who believes in Him may not perish, but have everlasting life.’ A great mystery is here, as they who read know. Again, let them hear, as well they who have not read as they who have forgotten what perhaps they had heard or read. The people Israel were fallen helplessly in the wilderness by the bite of serpents; they suffered a great calamity by many deaths: for it was the stroke of God correcting and scourging them that He might instruct them. In this was shown a great mystery, the figure of a thing to come: the Lord Himself testifies in this passage, so that no man can give another interpretation than that which the truth indicates concerning itself. Now Moses was ordered by the Lord to make a brazen serpent, and to raise it on a pole in the wilderness, and to admonish the people Israel, that, when any had been bitten by a serpent, he should look to that serpent raised up on the pole. This was done: men were bitten; they looked and were healed (cf. Numbers 21:6-9). What are the biting serpents? Sins, from the mortality of the flesh. What is the serpent lifted up? The Lord’s death on the cross. For as death came by the serpent, it was figured by the image of a serpent. The serpent’s bite was deadly, the Lord’s death is life-giving. A serpent is gazed on that the serpent may have no power. What is this? A death is gazed on, that death may have no power. But whose death? The death of life: if it may be said, the death of life; yea, for it may be said, but said wonderfully. But should it not be spoken, seeing it was a thing to be done? Shall I hesitate to utter that which the Lord has deigned to do for me? Is not Christ the life? And yet Christ hung on the cross. Is not Christ life? And yet Christ was dead. But in Christ’s death, death died. Life dead slew death; the fullness of life swallowed up death; death was absorbed in the body of Christ. So also shall we say in the resurrection, when now triumphant we shall sing, ‘Where, O death, is thy contest? Where, O death, is thy sting?’ (1 Corinthians 15:54) Meanwhile brethren, that we may be healed from sin, let us now gaze on Christ crucified; for ‘as Moses,’ says He, ‘lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes in Him may not perish, but have everlasting life.’ Just as they who looked on that serpent perished not by the serpent’s bites, so they who look in faith on Christ’s death are healed from the bites of sins. But those were healed from death to temporal life; whilst here He says, ‘that they may have everlasting life.’ Now there is this difference between the figurative image and the real thing: the figure procured temporal life; the reality, of which that was the figure, procures eternal life.”
 
Well reported, Peter Holter. The quotation from St. Augustine is definitive. Nothing more needs to be explained…

Always keep in mind those other words of St. Augustine: " The New Testament is hidden in the O T and the O T is revealed in the
N T."

:blessyou:
Lily Marlene
 
the bronze serpent on the pole stood for the healing power of god.the medical profession adopted it for their logo.have a look for it on your next doctor’s bill.
 
The bronze serpent had a meaning for the people of Israel in the desert. It was a symbol of the punishment they had brought upon themselves for their sin. But it was also a symbol of God’s mercy in response to their repentance, and cries for forgiveness.

The bronze serpent also has meaning for us as readers of God’s Word, because the incident is used by Jesus himself to draw parallels with His death on the cross (John 3:14-15). In this part of John, Jesus is explaining to Nicodemus what it means to be “born again”.

This has huge implications for us because Nicodemus has come to Jesus to find out who He is and why He has come. Jesus is explaining his role as Messiah, that whoever believes in Him has eternal life, because Jesus is going to die on a cross as a symbol of the punishment which we have brought upon ourselves for our sin. But also as a symbol of God’s mercy in response to our repentance and cries for forgiveness.

saltandlight.wordpress.com/2007/09/01/you-must-be-born-again/#more-64
 
The rabbis had a hard time with this one trying to figure out why this was not idolatry.what they came to in Midrash was very much like what saltandlight said, The Bronze serpent represents God and only by looking on God and repenting they could be saved.Most scholars believe that is quite a stretch and the apotropaic reasoning seems the most logical in the time period.😛
 
“Why would a physical crucifix help us know about Jesus? It is an image that does not contain words other that INRI. An image without words is speachless. The words of John say more about repentence and forgiveness than a crucifix.”

Spiritual things are understood at the level of the spirit of man, the Holy Spirit’s level of communication.
Words are not needed for communication on a spiritual level. An example of this is Luke 1:44 “For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.”
Another example is in Romans 8:26 “We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans”.
Words belong to the intellect, the Spirit does not. It appeals to the spirit of man where words are superfluous. There are many such verses that could be quoted.

Whoever thinks words are necessary is at the level of Nicodemus who also say things from an intellectual perspective. He was on a different wavelength. He who remains of this wavelength needs to be born from above, or uplifted as the key word of John 3:14 says.

I suggest you read a recent article that discusses the meaning of the comparison between Moses, the bronze serpent and Jesus being lifted up

know-britain.com/life_love_freedom/bible_study_meditation/john_3_14_15_reflections.html
 
Where did this thread come from? And, what happened to all those posters? I miss them, sad that I will not know them.

:twocents:

How about a message that we are supposed to confront sin,
to see it for what it is, and not hide in the darkness of shame.
Christ took all the sin upon Himself, the snake on the cross,
and dying, defeated death, through His resurrection.

The Word is revealed to the Israelites in time,
shining through the ages for all of us
guided to the promised land, freed from the bonds of servitude to sin.
 
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