Meaning of uncleaness

[sainthumbert]

Is there any argument that some of the sexual sins listed in the bible refer to contraceptive or unnatural acts between man and woman or masturbation? Uncleanness, abusers of themselves, etc? This is for the purpose of reaching bible protestants. I would need to be able to show the same Greek words in the bible to another non-bible ancient writing that explains or includes the words in context which prove that they refer to contraceptive acts, etc.

1 Corinthians 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

 

[ezeekl]

Is there any argument that some of the sexual sins listed in the bible refer to contraceptive or unnatural acts between man and woman or masturbation? Uncleanness, abusers of themselves, etc? This is for the purpose of reaching bible protestants. I would need to be able to show the same Greek words in the bible to another non-bible ancient writing that explains or includes the words in context which prove that they refer to contraceptive acts, etc.

1 Corinthians 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Uncleanliness means sin and its trappings. The Book of Revelation states that nothing unclean will enter heaven. Therefore a soul must be perfectly clean before it can enter heaven. That is why there is a purgation of minor sin and its effects after we die. The Orthodox called it Final Theosis since they loathe latin and purgatory is derived from Latin.

 

[sainthumbert]

Uncleanliness means sin and its trappings. The Book of Revelation states that nothing unclean will enter heaven. Therefore a soul must be perfectly clean before it can enter heaven. That is why there is a purgation of minor sin and its effects after we die. The Orthodox called it Final Theosis since they loathe latin and purgatory is derived from Latin.

Don’t you think the uncleanness in Revelations, and the uncleanness in the Old Testament, and the uncleanness in the verses I quoted above have different meanings? The way they are listed next to sexual sins makes me think there is a sexual meaning. But I don’t know.

 

[dmar198]

Is there any argument that some of the sexual sins listed in the bible refer to contraceptive or unnatural acts between man and woman or masturbation?

Yes, but I haven’t seen the verses you mentioned discussed in this context. At catholicapologetics.org, you can find this paragraph: In the New Testament, it is possible that the Greek “pharmakeia” refers to the birth control issue. “Pharmakeia” in general was the mixing of various potions for secret purposes, and it is known that potions were mixed in the first century A.D. to prevent or stop a pregnancy. The typical translation as “sorcery” may not reveal all of the specific practices condemned by the New Testament. In all three of the passages in which it appears, it is in a context condemning sexual immorality; two of the three passages also condemn murder. (Galatians 5:19-26; Revelation 9:21, 21:8). Thus it is very possible that there are three New Testament passages condemning the use of the products of “pharmakeia” for birth control purposes. source] The above paragraph cites Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 9:21, and Revelation 21:8 as evidence that “pharmakeia” (potions including birth control) were condemned. Revelation 22:15 could be added to that list.

The Catholic Answers tract “Contraception and Sterilization” also cites two other Scriptures in this paragraph: Christians have always condemned contraceptive sex. Both forms mentioned in the Bible, coitus interruptus and sterilization, are condemned without exception (Gen. 38:9–10, Deut. 23:1). source] The Genesis 38:9-10 passage is further explained in this Catholic Answers tract about birth control: click here.

All together, that gives you at least 6 passages of Scripture that can be cited against contraception and sterilization (though most of them require some explanation):

Genesis 38:9-10, Deuteronomy 23:1, Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 9:21, Revelation 21:8, and Revelation 22:15.

Anyway I hope that helps. God bless!

 

[ezeekl]

Don’t you think the uncleanness in Revelations, and the uncleanness in the Old Testament, and the uncleanness in the verses I quoted above have different meanings? The way they are listed next to sexual sins makes me think there is a sexual meaning. But I don’t know.

Lepers were said to be unclean also but has not connection to sexual sins. Also a woman was considered unclean after giving birth due to the issue of blood and had to undergo a cleansing. Generally, in all its uses, the word unclean has some connotation with or understood to be connected with either actual sin or, as in the case of women giving birth, a ritual cleansing.

 

[sirach2v4]

Perhaps a partial answer: Various commentaries point to prohibited or defiling things (in the Old Testament) as things associated with pagan beliefs and practices. So, the penalty for the uncleanness is meant to deter contact with it.

The common sense (from a Biblical standpoint) explanation might be that it is an object lesson that all mankind is corrupted in some way. It encourages self-examination and introspection of even such minutiae, which points to the larger sins that people may commit. IOW, it is meant to make people humble (respective of God).

And, as you see, the Word of God itself causes us to delve into it deeper. e.g. what is meant by uncleanness?

 

[JohnR77]

Lepers were said to be unclean also but has not connection to sexual sins. Also a woman was considered unclean after giving birth…
.

Here is where apologetics can really help. Some women have a very negative view of the Church ( for a whole host of reasons that are usually based on misconceptions.)

When they hear of women who after going through their monthly cycle or who after having given birth as being “unclean” they start to think of the Church (and Judaism) as being Chauvinistic.

Here is where we can help.

What does a deceased body, or a woman who has given birth have in common ?

They were considered to both having been touched by God who is the Author of Life. The leper is thought to be near death.

What do we do with the Chalice after it has touched the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, of the Second Person of the Trinity ? -]We/-] The priest purifies it. Why ? Because it was dirty? No, of course not.

Mary, after having given birth to Jesus, our Savior, performs the mikveh ritual. Did Jesus make her dirty ? No

They are called “unclean” because if we touch them, WE become unclean because God has just touched them. They are sacred, and to be returned to the normal state they need to “purified.”

I think we see a mixture of theological ideas and possibly development as well as a possibly a development of the language and its implications. Not sure, just my thoughts

A mikveh, ritual bath, in the excavations of the temple. Luke–speaks of Mary going to be purified.

http://www.uiw.edu/holylandtour/images/133.jpg

John