L
- Status
P
paperwight66
Guest
It appears not.
To repeat, it will not be a sin to eat meat on Fridays in the UK when the new exhortation comes into force,
I would not want Elyzium23’s post to cause confusion to our UK observers.
The situation in the USA I leave to American posters to clarify.
E
Elizium23
Guest
I did read the link and that applies to the USA only. In the UK, abstinence is bound by universal Canon Law as explained in the Q&A and must be observed in the majority of days or you risk mortal sin.
P
paperwight66
Guest
No, you are mistaken as regards the UK, Elizium23.
Please read the following from the website of the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales.
Q11. Are the Bishops placing a greater obligation on Catholics in England and Wales? Apart
from the exceptions above, will it be a ‘sin’ to eat meat on a Friday after the Bishops’ decision
takes effect in September?
The obligation on Catholics in England and Wales to do penance on a Friday will be the same after Friday
16 September 2011 as it was before that date. The only change is that the Bishops have determined that the
requirement by all the faithful to do penance on a Friday will be fulfilled by abstaining from meat. When asked
a similar question to this, the Holy See replied that the ‘gravity’ of the obligation applies to our intention to
observe penance as a regular and necessary part of our spiritual lives as a wholexiv.
Therefore, the ‘gravity’ of the obligation does not relate to observing the specific act of penance (abstaining
from meat) prescribed by the Conference of Bishops. The ‘gravity’ of the obligation applies to the intention to
do penance during the prescribed penitential days and seasons of the Church’s yearxv. Failure to abstain from
meat on a particular Friday then would not constitute a sin.
You note it says that failure does not constitute a sin?
(Note: I am referring to England and Wales as those countries are by far the biggest part of the UK… I should not have used the blanket term ‘UK’ as it may be different in Scotland.)
V
Vico
Guest
Which means that each non-penitential passing Friday, for those that have no intention to do penance as a regular and necessary part of there spiritual lives, is gravely sinful.
J
Joe_Kelley
Guest
Catechism of the Catholic Church
P
paperwight66
Guest
Agreed, and this is hardly ever mentioned outside of Lent, sadly.
Vico, I couldn’t tell from your comment whether you were agreeing with me or not, to be honest.
The claim was made that it would be a mortal sin in England and Wales to eat meat on Fridays from next weekend, I was quoting the Bishops’ own website to say that this is not so. That was all I was concerned to clarify.
The need for ongoing penance is a given.
L
Lapey
Guest
This is a nice recommendation…but in no way a requirement nor is there sin if you choose not to observe a Friday fast or abstain from meat, unless there is a designated requirement, Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, Lenten Fridays.
Also, as happened last Lent with St. Joseph’s feast day, if a feast day falls on a Lenten Friday, the requirement is superseded by that feast day, CCL 1251, and the requirement is not in force.
L
Lapey
Guest
Are you saying we are bound to fast or abstain every Friday because of this? If so you are mistaken, this means we are bound to the days that are required, not every Friday. Reccommended, not required by penalty of sin.
C
Cristiano
Guest
Jimmy Akin is a really good apologist and people should pay attention to him, and I also think that he is wrong on this topic. We must consider that he is expressing his own opinion and that he cannot speak for the Church. He is not a Bishop and so he cannot even speak with doctrinal authority for a specific diocese.
L
Lapey
Guest
The Church has already spoken, in the USA there is no obligation unless specifically required. You know the normal days, not every Friday. One can choose to take the recommendation to abstain or fast, or some other penitential act, but it is not required.
C
Cristiano
Guest
You have to prove your statement! Canon Law is very clear, we have obligations and we cannot be exempted from obligations. Our obligations can be changed and that is fine with me. Please provide a document that shows that the obligations described with the CCL of 1984 have been changed and how they have been changed. Please provide information to show that such a document has at least the authority for the individual Bishops in their own dioceses.
L
Lapey
Guest
It has already been provided, and backed up by the actions of the dioceses of the USA. Go to confession and confess that you ate meat last Friday and you didn’t “say a special” prayer, I bet the priest looks at you really wierd and informs you that you weren’t obligated.
CCL, 1983, has not been changed. It expressly gives the authority to the conference of bishops to controll this obligation. Please look it up, preferably not in the '84 code, I don’t know that one…
C
Cristiano
Guest
Fine, you are making a statement but you are not providing info in support of it. You are not providing any document written by the Conference of Bishops that shows that we are exempted from the obligations of the latest CCL.It has already been provided, and backed up by the actions of the dioceses of the USA. Go to confession and confess that you ate meat last Friday and you didn’t “say a special” prayer, I bet the priest looks at you really wierd and informs you that you weren’t obligated.
CCL, 1983, has not been changed. It expressly gives the authority to the conference of bishops to controll this obligation. Please look it up, preferably not in the '84 code, I don’t know that one…
BTW my confessor here in the USA says that we are not exempted from obligations.
F
FrDavid96
Guest
The issue here is that people are confusing the issues of:
The part of that which appears to be overlooked is is #1: “Friday itself remains a special day of penitential observance throughout the year…”
In other words, Friday is still a day of penance (“day of penance” and “day of penitential observance” mean exactly the same thing).
As Catholics we are all still bound by the requirement to observe every Friday (excepting solemnities) throughout the year as days of penance.
What has changed is the form that such penance must/may take. In the past, abstaining from meat was required. At present, abstaining from meat is the highly-recommended form, but the penance may take other forms at the discretion of the individual Catholic.
The Friday penance is still required. This has not changed. Only the form of the penance has changed. The penance itself remains an obligation.
Assuming that what’s been posted here about the UK is accurate (and I don’t doubt it, I merely mention that because I don’t have the docs) the same holds for there.
We are not exempt from the obligation of observing Friday as a day of penance.
We are exempt from the requirement that such penance must be in the form of abstaining from meat.
- Friday as a day of penance
- The requirement that the “form of the penance” must be to abstain from meat.
- Friday itself remains a special day of penitential observance throughout the year, a time when those who seek perfection will be mindful of their personal sins and the sins of mankind which they are called upon to help expiate in union with Christ Crucified;
- Among the works of voluntary self-denial and personal penance which we especially commend to our people for the future observance of Friday, even though we hereby terminate the traditional law of abstinence as binding under pain of sin, as the sole prescribed means of observing Friday, we give first place to abstinence from flesh meat. We do so in the hope that the Catholic community will ordinarily continue to abstain from meat by free choice as formerly we did in obedience to Church law. Our expectation is based on the following considerations;
The part of that which appears to be overlooked is is #1: “Friday itself remains a special day of penitential observance throughout the year…”
In other words, Friday is still a day of penance (“day of penance” and “day of penitential observance” mean exactly the same thing).
As Catholics we are all still bound by the requirement to observe every Friday (excepting solemnities) throughout the year as days of penance.
What has changed is the form that such penance must/may take. In the past, abstaining from meat was required. At present, abstaining from meat is the highly-recommended form, but the penance may take other forms at the discretion of the individual Catholic.
The Friday penance is still required. This has not changed. Only the form of the penance has changed. The penance itself remains an obligation.
Assuming that what’s been posted here about the UK is accurate (and I don’t doubt it, I merely mention that because I don’t have the docs) the same holds for there.
We are not exempt from the obligation of observing Friday as a day of penance.
We are exempt from the requirement that such penance must be in the form of abstaining from meat.
L
Lapey
Guest
Seeing Father David’s post, I have removed my last post. Although I may not agree that it is a requirement with a penalty of sin, especially mortal sin, he is of more authority than me. So I would suggest taking his word over mine, and especially your pastor before anyone here.
Sorry if I added to the confusion.
Thanks Fr. David.
Sorry if I added to the confusion.
Thanks Fr. David.
E
Elizium23
Guest
Solemnity; the day must have the rank of solemnity to supersede the requirement, which is higher rank than that of feast day.
L
Lapey
Guest
Notice I mentioned St. Joseph’s feast day, this is a non-obligatory solemnity; that is in the US. I used a general term to describe a specific type of feast. You are correct. Thanks.
A
Anton_Gearoid
Guest
I gave up meat on Fridays for Lent this year and decided to continue on with this penance. It is wonderful that the Catholic Church in England are going back to this Discipline… Ireland take note!! The ‘Land of Saints and Scholars’ are loosing respect for the faith, with many ‘Catholics’ eating meat and drinking alcohol on Good Friday! Turn back to Jesus., respect Good Friday and every Friday.
J
Joe_Kelley
Guest
FrDavid96 - Thanks. That interpretation seemed obvious to me, but you are the first I have seen to support it.
- Status