Meat on Good Friday...Mortal Sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wannano
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I am sorry you were accused of trying to ridicule the Church by your question. You are not Catholic and trying to understand a concept that is, frankly, actually very badly understood and applied by many Catholics, especially it seems to me in the United States, as the responses here show. I find several American priests writing on this subject even to provide commentary that seems to miss the key phrases in Paenitemini, the apostolic constitution by the Blessed Paul VI which is dispositive.

The fact that the prescriptions of ecclesiastical law regarding penitence are specifically declared to be totally reorganised means that one cannot properly look back to what “was” in making a determination as to what “is” since the legislator is informing us that what “was” has been displaced.

The last sentence of the quote from Paenitemini above is what is also crucial. It is the substantial observance that binds gravely…not the individual instance. If the hypothetical person in your scenario has otherwise kept the observance of fast and abstinence during Lent, except for this one failure on Good Friday, he has substantially observed the Lenten discipline of fast and abstinence.

The one caveat would be that if he rushed into the steakhouse to eat the steak motivated solely by utter hatred of ecclesiastical authority, that could reach the conclusion you propose…of him committing mortal sin. It is an absurd premise and more the sort of anecdote moral theologians talk about in a light-hearted moment at an academic gathering than anything one will likely encounter in the “real world”.

You had earlier asked me to weigh in on your scenario…I resisted because, as written, the scenario is a bit problematic in its premises. But given how the responses have gone, I see I should weigh in. So…

In fact, one act of eating meat when there is an obligation to abstain is not a mortal sin. All he has done is failed to observe the abstinence in this instance. Assessment of moral guilt by him – assuming his conscience has been properly formed – and by the priest hearing his confession – trusting that he is acquainted with the governing norms – would have to look beyond the one instance and to a variety of other factors in assessing what sin, if any, was committed and invites absolution.

No, the Church would never teach such a thing.

From the perspective of moral theology, one must differentiate between an act which contravenes a disciplinary measure on the one hand and an act which is, for example, in violation of a divine commandment on the other hand. This is anything but equivalent to dying in the classic in flagrante delicto moment.

The fundamental value also has to be understood in order to understand what is derived from it:
  • The need to do penance is from divine positive law. In other words, God has said it and therefore we must comply with it.
  • The ecclesiastical law is there to provide to the faithful, especially those who are not theologians, guidance in how to fulfill the obligation imposed by God to do penance.
Thank you so much for your answer and concern. I had read somewhere that eating meat on Good Friday was a mortal sin and because I myself thought that seemed harsh I formulated my scenario to put it in a context of action that I could possible see myself in in a moment of weakness.

You have given an answer that I can comprehend.

PS As an aside, if you have any interest in responding to a thread that I answered you on I would sincerely love to hear from you. You probably did not notice my request. It was on March 13 titled Catholics and Lutherans to worship together at 500 year Reformation Commeration post 170. Thank you…
 
I a sorry you feel I am trying to ridicule the Church
And likewise, I’m sorry that you expressed your question in a way that came across as seeming derisive. 😉
40.png
Wannano:
nor am I saying the Church says eating steak is a sin
40.png
Wannano:
I had read somewhere that eating meat on Good Friday was a mortal sin and because I myself thought that seemed harsh I formulated my scenario to put it in a context of action
Umm. OK. Guess you were just asking it, then…? 😉
I have long wondered about the meatless Fridays and when I read about it yesterday I had questions. I have a better understanding now I think.
Cool. 👍

Thanks for clearing that up!
 
I am sorry you were accused of trying to ridicule the Church by your question.
:rolleyes:

He wasn’t accused of ridiculing the Church. I said that his characterization was a caricature. Big difference… 😉
Don Ruggero:
The one caveat would be that if he rushed into the steakhouse to eat the steak motivated solely by utter hatred of ecclesiastical authority, that could reach the conclusion you propose…of him committing mortal sin. It is an absurd premise
40.png
Wannano:
I never said anything was absurd.
Whoops! The OP seems to disagree with you… 😉
and more the sort of anecdote moral theologians talk about in a light-hearted moment at an academic gathering than anything one will likely encounter in the “real world”.
True enough. Yet, that’s the question that was asked: if a person intends to eat the steak, knowing the implications, is it sinful? It’s difficult to say that he’s ‘substantially’ kept the Lenten observance if he willfully says, “it’s Good Friday, so I’m going to have a steak tonight”, isn’t it? I mean… light-heartedly and anecdotally?
Assessment of moral guilt by him – assuming his conscience has been properly formed – and by the priest hearing his confession – trusting that he is acquainted with the governing norms – would have to look beyond the one instance and to a variety of other factors in assessing what sin, if any, was committed and invites absolution.
Precisely. 👍
 
:rolleyes:
😉
😉
True enough. Yet, that’s the question that was asked: if a person intends to eat the steak, knowing the implications, is it sinful? It’s difficult to say that he’s ‘substantially’ kept the Lenten observance if he willfully says, “it’s Good Friday, so I’m going to have a steak tonight”, isn’t it? I mean… light-heartedly and anecdotally?
Precisely.
👍
Tempus Quadragesimale suam indolem paenitentialem retinet. Dies paenitentiae, obligatorie in tota Ecclesia servandi, sunt singulae sextae feriae totius anni et feria quarta Cinerum, vel, pro diversitate Rituum, primus dies Magnae Quadragesimae; eorum substantialis observantia graviter tenet.

Well…there it is. Having done this long enough that I was kindly granted my retirement, if you have a different and better explanation than what I have related, as I would have said to my own students: I am all ears to hear it. How, precisely, is a theologian to read and interpret the above passage?
 
Thank you so much for your answer and concern. I had read somewhere that eating meat on Good Friday was a mortal sin and because I myself thought that seemed harsh I formulated my scenario to put it in a context of action that I could possible see myself in in a moment of weakness.

You have given an answer that I can comprehend.

PS As an aside, if you have any interest in responding to a thread that I answered you on I would sincerely love to hear from you. You probably did not notice my request. It was on March 13 titled Catholics and Lutherans to worship together at 500 year Reformation Commeration post 170. Thank you…
You’re welcome.

You are right…I needed to come back to answer that point…and I meant to. I remember it asked about an area of dialogue that I was never engaged with – but it is just a matter of checking with a couple of people. I will do so, in the days after Easter.
 
You’re welcome.

You are right…I needed to come back to answer that point…and I meant to. I remember it asked about an area of dialogue that I was never engaged with – but it is just a matter of checking with a couple of people. I will do so, in the days after Easter.
Thank you so much, I look forward to that. If my question needs clarification feel free to ask. I am open to a pm from you if you desire that as well.

May the peace of Christ be with you as we celebrate on this first day of the empty tomb.
 
Yes, I understand your struggle. And it’s largely because you are trying to determine what we believe will send someone to hell. The answer is ultimately unknown to us.

It’s like asking, “what if the man didn’t know the precept was terminated and did it?” 😃

It’s silly to try to find out what specific scenerio sends a believer to hell!

Consider this one from Paul to Timothy:

“Command this, so that they may be without reproach.*If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”

The purpose isn’t to figure out what person has denied the faith and headed to hell. It’s to compel them to do what is right.
rcwitness
It’s very sad that one cannot know if he’s going to hell.
It seems to me to be a very important part of one’s life.
Can we not be sure that we are going to heaven if we are trusting in the Lord Jesus to save us?
I asked this of Fra’ Lorenzo in a sanctuary where I go for adult catechism and he told me we could be sure of our salvation IF we are at the foot of the cross.
I’m at the foot of the cross every day and do not look to myself or anything I do or do not do for my salvation.
Some laws are God-made.
Some laws are man-made.
God gave Moses the 10 commandments on Mt. Sinai and then man started to add to them. Read the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus really well sometime. Do you think GOD made up all those rules??
And so it was with the Apostles. Jesus gave them authority. But way back then they weren’t too concerned about eating meat on Fridays.
  1. Jesus said it is more important what comes out of the mouth than what goes in.
    Mathew 15:11
Also, with God everything is a matter of the heart. What’s the use of not eating steak on Friday or Good Friday or any other day of abstention if I have fish and salad? I’m still eating a pretty darn good meal.

The reason to abstain from meat was to devote the day and our thoughts to God. You know, prayer and fasting.

So I’m pretty sure that if I eat meat on any Friday, Jesus will be able to save me. I don’t think He hung on that cross so I could go to hell because I disobeyed one command.

I mean, are we getting ourselves to heaven or is Jesus getting us there?

FG
 
YES! [As expressed in your story] Hell is our choice, NOT God’s choice for us:rolleyes:

A MORTAL sin has too:
  1. Be serious matter {this si as described in your story]
  2. The person HAS to know before hand that doing such & such WILL BE a Mortal sin
  3. Then Has to FREELY WANT to do it any way
You know everything PJM.
Hell is our choice.
Could you please explain to me WHY God made hell?
He knew some of us would end up there?
I thought He was a good God?
And a powerful one too?
He couldn’t send us someplace a little nicer?
Maybe an eternal purgatory…
Also, while you’re at it, could you please show me where in the bible I could find the word “hell”?
You know HELL, not sheol, hades or gehenna.

Thanks for your time.
 
I’m not Catholic, but I would not eat meat in front a Catholic, especially on Good Friday, as to us it is a sin to tempt your brother to sin as it says in 1 Corinthians 8:13… Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble 🙂
God bless you KariBear!
 
It is kind of you to be so considerate, but I think it is unnecessary. For the vast majority of Catholics, watching somebody eat meat would not cause them to stumble in any way. It is really a very minor sacrifice.

It’s like saying that you wouldn’t kiss your wife in front of a single friend, lest you temp him to lust.
Well, actually I agree with the other poster. I think it’s very Christianly of him to abstain from meat with a Catholic around. You know, like smoking in front of one who just quit.
Kissing your wife in front of a single friend probably wouldn’t tempt to lust (are you a guy??) BUT it certainly might make him feel badly or lonely or sad (I’m a girl).

See?
 
Only God can judge the person’s ultimate fate. Only God can know for sure whether he truly had full knowledge and full consent to break God’s law. He also may have been given the grace to make a perfect act of contrition in his final moments, which would restore him to a state of sanctifying Grace.
The sin here isn’t eating meat per se. There is nothing intrinsically evil about meat. The sin would be a matter of disobedience. Christ gave the apostles and their successors the power to bind and to loose, as recorded in the Gospels, and sent their forth as the Father sent him. It is grave matter to disobey our bishops. Remember how unhappy God was with Aaran and Miriam when they disobeyed Moses?
Do you know the difference between the Old (Mosaic) covenant and the New Covenant?
Are we living under THE LAW (the MORAL law) OR are we living under grace?

Could you tell me, please?
 
I agree with all who say no. The Church does NOT Teach that would be the case.

If someone is judged by Him as meriting hell, as opposed to the promise of eternal salvation, they are sinning more than mere eating meat on Friday.

James 4

“Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.”

Would it be a sin? Definitely!

Would it lead to hell?Church Magisterium does not substitute herself for Jesus Christ, to decide the heart and blameworthiness of someone’s soul and relationship/condition of grace with Him.
I agree wholeheartedy.
James 4 is an important scripture.
Something could be a sin for me but not for another person. For example, maybe complaining to my husband is a sin to me because he doesn’t feel well, but for my friend it may not be a sin.
But if someone feels it is wrong to eat meat on Fridays, then they shouldn’t. Always listen to your heart.
 
I don’t think not observing a fast qualifies as a mortal sin.
Mortal sin is associated with the commandments.
It can also occur for other reasons but it’s complicated.
you could look it up on the internet. There’s a whole long list.
For instance, if you steal $20. it’s not a mortal sin,
but if you steal $1 million dollars it’s a mortal sin.

So it’s easier if you just trust to do what’s in your heart. You can never go wrong if you’re honest with yourself.
 
It means that if you commit a mortal sin and perish with that sin on your soul (you have not been absolved by a priest nor said an act of perfect contrition), you will go to Hell. Perfect contrition is when you are sorry for your sins because you have offended God (not simply because you are afraid of His punishments such as Hell) and have a resolve to never sin again and to confess your sin to a priest as soon as possible.
So if I’ve done everything right and then I eat this meat and I die, I go to hell?
This is a very strict God we’re serving. No wonder a lot of people are deciding to leave the churches…
I read in the bible that we go to heaven because Jesus died for us.
We are to obey the commandments - that’s for sure.
But Jesus will protect us from harm.
 
Unfortunately, there is some truth to that. Knowingly and willfully rejecting what the Church has required us to observe would constitute mortal sin. But as the post referring to this particular fast demonstrates, the binding law of abstaining from meat on Fridays during lent has been terminated.

What needs to be distinguished is that eating meat on Friday during lent is not intrinsically evil. It is doing something in spite of knowing we are called through the Church to participate in that is gravely wrong.
It seems like the church is making many changes.
When I was a little girl you couldn’t eat meat on Fridays.
I guess now you could…
So it was a sin then, but now it’s not?
 
The law of abstaining from meat on Fridays in Lent has not been terminated. Outside of Lent, yes, but we still must abstain on Fridays within Lent. You are correct in that the eating of meat is not intrinsically evil and that the sin lies in disobeying the Church.
Well, WAIT A MINUTE.

Is it a sin, or is it NOT a sin?
 
The discipline of fasting and abstinence always runs from midnight to midnight. So on Good Friday, you must abstain until midnight even though Our Lord died at 3 pm.
Oh my. There’s even a time frame involved!
Uffa!
I don’t think I could remember all this…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top