Meat on Good Friday...Mortal Sin?

[rcwitness]

I have to honestly say I know very little about it. It is something I should study on as it is something I hear very little about.

I think of it as a decided pass from eating something to honor and petition the Holy Spirit.

Here is an interesting example of Jesus expressing the significance of fasting:

Mark 9
And… Jesus… rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “… I command you, come out of him, and never enter him again.”And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out, and the boy was like a corpse; so that most of them said, “He is dead.” But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose. And when he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer and fasting.”

And when Jesus Teaches about fasting, He just says, “When you fast…” not “If you fast.”

I don’t know what would happen in your scenerio, honestly. All I know, is that it’s not a humble member of the Church to not care about the Good Friday corporal fast from meat. To be indifferent or think it is better to reject it, so we can enjoy a steak meal instead of putting our carnal desires aside and observing the liturgical time of celebration of His Passion, is an ugly attitude. Of course we fail in many ways.

Mark 14
"Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

But some have a spirit which is opposed to prayer and fasting! This is what is truly deadly!

 

[susanlo]

I have to honestly say I know very little about it. It is something I should study on as it is something I hear very little about.

I think that fasting is not given as much attention as it should. In Matthew 6:16 it says: “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Jesus does not say - ‘if someday you choose to fast’…He assumes that it will be done.

I have recently started fasting more often. I abstain from food from 6pm one day to 6pm the next. I am not ready to fast longer. Fasting can be as short as skipping one meal - for example praying at lunch break instead of eating lunch.

I believe that fasting as described in the Bible is about abstaining from all food and having maybe a small amount of water. Having a fast by giving up a certain food for a certain time or abstaining from TV or Facebook or something may have value as well. I just worry that if we call this a fast, then we may disregard true fasting in lieu of something less powerful.

 

[frangiuliano115]

I think that fasting is not given as much attention as it should. In Matthew 6:16 it says: “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Jesus does not say - ‘if someday you choose to fast’…He assumes that it will be done.

I have recently started fasting more often. I abstain from food from 6pm one day to 6pm the next. I am not ready to fast longer. Fasting can be as short as skipping one meal - for example praying at lunch break instead of eating lunch.

I believe that fasting as described in the Bible is about abstaining from all food and having maybe a small amount of water. Having a fast by giving up a certain food for a certain time or abstaining from TV or Facebook or something may have value as well. I just worry that if we call this a fast, then we may disregard true fasting in lieu of something less powerful.

susanlo,
The above is for Wannano.

Could I just agree with all that you’ve said.
RCWitness can think on this a little more.
Fasting has to be something done with the heart and with a clear intention to achieve a goal: Closeness to God.
Abstaining from meat on a Friday because the church tells you to, does NOT achieve the above stated goal.
And I appreciate that you mentioned Mathew 6:16 which demonstrates this even more.
With some pride we announce that we will not eat meat because it is Friday, or Good Friday - breaking one of Jesus’ rules. Or we feel righteous because we have abstained. But we have not abstained for the right reasons. Not eating meat is foolishness when we then go ahead and eat anyway and make up for it by eating other food stuffs.

The point shouldn’t be to NOT EAT MEAT.
The point should be to FAST.

And fasting MUST be a personal choice - or it is of no avail.

FG

 

[rcwitness]

susanlo,
The above is for Wannano.

Could I just agree with all that you’ve said.
RCWitness can think on this a little more.
Fasting has to be something done with the heart and with a clear intention to achieve a goal: Closeness to God.
Abstaining from meat on a Friday because the church tells you to, does NOT achieve the above stated goal.
And I appreciate that you mentioned Mathew 6:16 which demonstrates this even more.
With some pride we announce that we will not eat meat because it is Friday, or Good Friday - breaking one of Jesus’ rules. Or we feel righteous because we have abstained. But we have not abstained for the right reasons. Not eating meat is foolishness when we then go ahead and eat anyway and make up for it by eating other food stuffs.

The point shouldn’t be to NOT EAT MEAT.
The point should be to FAST.

And fasting MUST be a personal choice - or it is of no avail.

FG

A corporal fast (such as meat on Fridays of Lent) does not have to be announced. And it is not opposed to personal reverence. We do it as One Body.

The bible does not say that fasting was always absolute (all food).

On Ash Wed. we read the instructions on fasting from Jesus.

 

[susanlo]

The bible does not say that fasting was always absolute (all food).

Were there some fasts in the Bible that were done that were just giving up a particular item?

I find that my spiritual state changes when I struggle with hunger and feel the bodily effects. I find that I feel closer to God in my praying when I fast and after I fast. I don’t think that eating lentil soup for meals (let alone salmon or cheese pizza) would have the same effect. I just think that we are missing out on something if our fasts consist of substituting foods only. There is a time and a place for sacrificing a comfort and a time and a place for true fasting in life.

 

[rcwitness]

Were there some fasts in the Bible that were done that were just giving up a particular item?

Not sure. But I don’t think the bible Teaches fasting to be necessarily all food.

I find that my spiritual state changes when I struggle with hunger and feel the bodily effects. I find that I feel closer to God in my praying when I fast and after I fast. I don’t think that eating lentil soup for meals (let alone salmon or cheese pizza) would have the same effect. I just think that we are missing out on something if our fasts consist of substituting foods only. There is a time and a place for sacrificing a comfort and a time and a place for true fasting in life.

That’s good you are finding an absolute fast to benefit you spiritually! But for those working physical labor jobs, it hinders work performance.

The fast from meat on Fridays during lent is NOT burdensome! It is not intended to be. It is not meant to bring us to physical weakness either. That can be a private fast, but the Church isn’t mandating that type of fast.

 

[rcwitness]

Also, the Lenten fast is most appropriately experienced and realized when attending the Masses during Lent!

If one comes together on Ash Wed, Sundays, and Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and Holy Saturday Vigil, they will benefit greatly from the prayer, fasting and charity done within that context.

 

[rcwitness]

susanlo,
The above is for Wannano.

Could I just agree with all that you’ve said.
RCWitness can think on this a little more.

The point shouldn’t be to NOT EAT MEAT.
The point should be to FAST.

I just think that we are missing out on something if our fasts consist of substituting foods only. There is a time and a place for sacrificing a comfort and a time and a place for true fasting in life.

Let me acknowledge where I think your genuine faith is coming from. Maybe this passage from St Paul is what you feel the Lenten fast is like?
Colossians 2:
Warnings against False Teachers

If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the universe, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations,“Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch”(referring to things which all perish as they are used), according to human precepts and doctrines?*These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh.

I don’t believe he is talking about fasting good things for spiritual reverence. He is condemning the idea that some things and foods are unclean in themselves, and if we eat them will be defiled.

We know meat is good, and is only for sustaining the body. To fast, is not to benefit from not digesting the meat. It is beneficial as an act of self control, a petition of the spirit and body, and a cause to remind us that Jesus gave us His Flesh for the true and eternal life of the world.

 

[susanlo]

Let me acknowledge where I think your genuine faith is coming from. Maybe this passage from St Paul is what you feel the Lenten fast is like?
Colossians 2:
Warnings against False Teachers

If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the universe, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations,“Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch”(referring to things which all perish as they are used), according to human precepts and doctrines?*These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh.

I don’t believe he is talking about fasting good things for spiritual reverence. He is condemning the idea that some things and foods are unclean in themselves, and if we eat them will be defiled.

We know meat is good, and is only for sustaining the body. To fast, is not to benefit from not digesting the meat. It is beneficial as an act of self control, a petition of the spirit and body, and a cause to remind us that Jesus gave us His Flesh for the true and eternal life of the world.

While I have heard 1 Timothy 4 used in argument against abstaining from meat on Fridays, I am not sure that that is what it is referring to. I am not against avoiding meat on Fridays. My main point earlier about fasting is that I would encourage all Christians, as medically appropriate, to choose a time to fast from meals altogether. That kind of fast should be difficult, but worthwhile to “feed” your spiritual relationship. Substituting foods and “fasting” from TV and Starbucks are good, but to end with this type of fast, you may miss something more beneficial.

 

[Wannano]

I think of it as a decided pass from eating something to honor and petition the Holy Spirit.

Here is an interesting example of Jesus expressing the significance of fasting:

Mark 9
And… Jesus… rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “… I command you, come out of him, and never enter him again.”And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out, and the boy was like a corpse; so that most of them said, “He is dead.” But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose. And when he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer and fasting.”

And when Jesus Teaches about fasting, He just says, “When you fast…” not “If you fast.”

I don’t know what would happen in your scenerio, honestly. All I know, is that it’s not a humble member of the Church to not care about the Good Friday corporal fast from meat. To be indifferent or think it is better to reject it, so we can enjoy a steak meal instead of putting our carnal desires aside and observing the liturgical time of celebration of His Passion, is an ugly attitude. Of course we fail in many ways.

Mark 14
"Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

But some have a spirit which is opposed to prayer and fasting! This is what is truly deadly!

Just to make sure you all know, I am not opposed to prayer and fasting in any way. I have always understood fasting to be denial of any food. That is why I am always in awe of Jesus when He fasted for 40 days. The temptation to make bread out of stones as the devil suggested to Him I believe was a real temptation for Jesus.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Yes. Well, my point should be obvious by now and I will not repeat ad infinitum.

What I’m saying, is that church law should be respected and followed.

I’m saying that the whole idea of not eating meat on Friday is not valid, even as a community sacrifice.

But, leaving that aside, it MOST CERTAINLY SHOULD NOT BE CLASSIFIED AS A MORTAL SIN if I do NOT follow.

See? The CONSEQUENCE is beyond the scope of the CRIME.
There is NO BALANCE.
God is just.
The church, in this case, is not following God’s justice.
It is demeaning God’s justice.

Ditto for missing Mass. There are some here who will tell you you’re going straight to hell if you miss a Mass. Where is the intent of the heart here? How could it be so easy to get to hell?

Do we not realize what we’re saying??
Did Christ have to die on that bloody cross so I could end up in hell for missing one Mass?

I cannot say more than this.

FG

We must obey the Church. Disobedience to the Church in matters such as skipping Mass or refusing to abstain from meat is a mortal sin because we are disobeying the Church. The Church has bound us under pain of mortal sin to hear Mass and abstain from meat because of how important Mass & penance are.

In the Old Testament, God killed priests that burned incense when it was not prescribed. In Leviticus x. 1-2, “And Nadab and Abiu, the sons of Aaron, taking their censers, put fire therein, and incense on it, offering before the Lord strange fire: which was not commanded them. And fire coming out from the Lord destroyed them, and they died before the Lord.” Sometimes what seems like a light offense to us is truly not a light offense. It is not what we believe to be a light offense that determines the true gravity of an act, it is how God sees the gravity of the act.

Our “intent of the heart” is manifested by our actions. If we truly intended to be good Catholics, we wouldn’t be disobeying the Church nor showing disdain for the Holy Mass by refusing to hear it on the bare minimum days of Sundays & holy days. The narrow, rocky path is our way to Heaven and the wide, paved path is our way to Hell, we shouldn’t expect it to be easy to get to Heaven.

NO CD

Things were not right before and I welcome any change that brings us closer to understanding God’s laws and God’s ways and the importance of the sacrifice Jesus made for us
So we wouldn’t even have to have pages of this discussion…

FG

There is a lot of confusion with the new discipline over matters that were clear cut in the old discipline.This thread is one example. The disciplines have gotten more lenient over the decades which is not a good thing. A priest once said in a homily that the requirements for penance nowadays are “downright embarrassing”.

 

[Gorgias]

Gorgias:

However, you yourself noted that the intent is relevant, since you stated that an intent that betrays an odium fidei changes the analysis…

Then you have not understood what I have written.

Fine, then: call it ‘motivation’, then, if ‘intent’ doesn’t work for you.

You did, after all, state that motivation matters (emphasis mine):
Don Ruggero:

If one is acting “in utter hatred of authority,” like acting in odium fidei, it doesn’t matter what the expression is – the moral culpability resides in the act of hating of authority and the outward expression is largely beside the point. Presuming that is not the motivation for the actor in the scenario and presuming that the person has otherwise observed the Lenten fast and abstinence, this instance would not be a mortal sin.

So, if we presume that the OP means to say that the actor is motivated by a simple desire to eat meat, then there’s wriggle room. But, if we presume that the OP means that the actor – realizing that the rule of the Church forbids that steak on Good Friday – nevertheless chooses to disobey the rule, then yeah… it would seem that this ‘motivation’ is what’s in play here. As you point out, it isn’t the particular action that we’re discussing (after all, it could be a steak or a hamburger or a chicken pot pie): but, if the choice is made in the context of knowing and disregarding the Church’s rule on abstinence, then that context – the disregard for following Church rule – is the ‘motivation’ that we’re discussing, and is the motivation that you, yourself, have pointed out can be relevant.

It would seem that you can’t have it both ways.

(Unless, of course, you’re claiming that you can have it both ways – so, I’ll ask my follow-up question again: are you claiming that, on Good Friday, you are able to stand at the pulpit and tell your congregation, “hey guys! As long as you’ve substantially followed the Lenten abstinence so far, you’re totally in the clear if you decide to go have a steak tonight! Bon appetit!”…?)

 

[frangiuliano115]

Let me acknowledge where I think your genuine faith is coming from. Maybe this passage from St Paul is what you feel the Lenten fast is like?
Colossians 2:
Warnings against False Teachers

If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the universe, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations,“Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch”(referring to things which all perish as they are used), according to human precepts and doctrines?*These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh.

I don’t believe he is talking about fasting good things for spiritual reverence. He is condemning the idea that some things and foods are unclean in themselves, and if we eat them will be defiled.

We know meat is good, and is only for sustaining the body. To fast, is not to benefit from not digesting the meat. It is beneficial as an act of self control, a petition of the spirit and body, and a cause to remind us that Jesus gave us His Flesh for the true and eternal life of the world.

Oops. I can’t remember if the above is for me. I’m so bad at this!
Anway,

Actually, RC, it’s the opposite of what you’re saying.
Paul is saying that it’s OKAY to eat any foods. Remember, he was speaking to Jews who had to keep dietary laws and Paul was telling them that they no longer had to keep them becauase Jesus had cancelled out the decree of debt. Colossians 2:14

So he’s saying not lt let any man act as judge in what they eat. They could eat “clean” food or “unclean” food (food sacrificed to idols).

FG

 

[frangiuliano115]

Fine, then: call it ‘motivation’, then, if ‘intent’ doesn’t work for you.

You did, after all, state that motivation matters (emphasis mine):

So, if we presume that the OP means to say that the actor is motivated by a simple desire to eat meat, then there’s wriggle room. But, if we presume that the OP means that the actor – realizing that the rule of the Church forbids that steak on Good Friday – nevertheless chooses to disobey the rule, then yeah… it would seem that this ‘motivation’ is what’s in play here. As you point out, it isn’t the particular action that we’re discussing (after all, it could be a steak or a hamburger or a chicken pot pie): but, if the choice is made in the context of knowing and disregarding the Church’s rule on abstinence, then that context – the disregard for following Church rule – is the ‘motivation’ that we’re discussing, and is the motivation that you, yourself, have pointed out can be relevant.

It would seem that you can’t have it both ways.

(Unless, of course, you’re claiming that you can have it both ways – so, I’ll ask my follow-up question again: are you claiming that, on Good Friday, you are able to stand at the pulpit and tell your congregation, “hey guys! As long as you’ve substantially followed the Lenten abstinence so far, you’re totally in the clear if you decide to go have a steak tonight! Bon appetit!”…?)

I’m rather appalled to be honest.
Priests have a difficult life and a life with much responsibility - no matter what they are doing at any given time. They will tell you that they’ve not given up anything to become a priest because the Lord called them - but they give up a lot.

I think your last sentence shows no respect.

FG

 

[frangiuliano115]

We must obey the Church. Disobedience to the Church in matters such as skipping Mass or refusing to abstain from meat is a mortal sin because we are disobeying the Church. The Church has bound us under pain of mortal sin to hear Mass and abstain from meat because of how important Mass & penance are.

The church has taken too much responsibility upon itself and is now paying the consequences. The chuch should never say that we have to do something because “the church” says to but because God says to. Catholics think the church does not allow divorce. It’s GOD who does not allow divorce. People think the church does not allow homosexuality. It’s GOD who does not allow homosexuality. So, yes, the church has taken on too much responsibility.

It’s trying to get away from this but legalistic people such as yourself are making it very difficult. Pope Francis must get dry mouth declaring that we must be merciful. But are we? In your above post, you just got through telling me I’m going to hell if I miss Mass AND only ONE Mass. First of all, the commandment is not, Thou Shalt Not Miss Mass, BUT Remember to keep holy the Sabbath. Wonder what that means? Do you work on Sunday (the new Sabbath)? Do you go shopping on Sunday? Do you do any household jobs? Do you get angry with anyone? Well, you’ve just broken the Sabbath, did not keep it holy and must be going straight to hell. Does that sound merciful to you?

The church can bind or loose. I’m good with that. But it has bound too much and now things need to be loosened so we don’t die choking. I’m speaking to civil and ceremonial laws (such as not eating meat on Fridays) and NOT to moral laws. Those MUST be kept. Jesus did not come to abolish the Law (the Moral Law).

In the Old Testament, God killed priests that burned incense when it was not prescribed. In Leviticus x. 1-2, “And Nadab and Abiu, the sons of Aaron, taking their censers, put fire therein, and incense on it, offering before the Lord strange fire: which was not commanded them. And fire coming out from the Lord destroyed them, and they died before the Lord.” Sometimes what seems like a light offense to us is truly not a light offense. It is not what we believe to be a light offense that determines the true gravity of an act, it is how God sees the gravity of the act.

EVERY offense is a serious offense to God. Do you realize how perfect He is? Could you bear His shekinah glory and his magnificence? I believe none of us can. So, yes, every sin is a grave sin to such a perfect being.

Our “intent of the heart” is manifested by our actions. If we truly intended to be good Catholics, we wouldn’t be disobeying the Church nor showing disdain for the Holy Mass by refusing to hear it on the bare minimum days of Sundays & holy days. The narrow, rocky path is our way to Heaven and the wide, paved path is our way to Hell, we shouldn’t expect it to be easy to get to Heaven.

It’s very easy to get to heaven. Believe in the name of the Lord, and thou shalt be saved.
Acts 16:31
Jesus is our rest.
Mathew 11:28.30

Isn’t this strange? I just got through saying that to God any little thing is sin, and yet it’s easy to get to heaven. The secret is in Romans and every other book in the N.T.

And, by the way, this does NOT negate James. Faith without works IS dead. Jesus told us to do many works. We should know what they are…

There is a lot of confusion with the new discipline over matters that were clear cut in the old discipline.This thread is one example. The disciplines have gotten more lenient over the decades which is not a good thing. A priest once said in a homily that the requirements for penance nowadays are “downright embarrassing”.

Interesting concept. Things were easier when you were told EXACTLY what to do. Seems like for some it’s easier to follow a set of rules than to love with the heart.
You like the O.T. Are you familiar with the story of Ruth?

So she’d be thrashing that wheat on the floor. And some of it had to be left for the poor - so they could pick it up after the women left, and they’d have something to eat.
What is easier: Telling Ruth she had to leave 10% on the floor (O.C.)
OR
Telling her she could leave whatever she wanted to but her heart had to be in the offering? (N.C.) I guess you could change that C to a T. Same difference.

I welcome the change. I welcome the mercy of God. I welcome an open heart. I think this change will be good. I’m expecting more.

FG

 

[Reuben_J]

I’m just trying really hard to say that it’s not so easy to go to hell as eating a steak.

FG

And oh, poor Eve, it was just an apple after all.

Depending on where you are coming from, certain form of sin can be pretty silly and who can argue with that.

But if you are a Catholic, more so one with good standing, you may very well love steak very much but you will be pretty sure it is one day in the 365 days of the year where you would not eat it. You will not find a single Catholic deliberately enjoying steak on a Good Friday. That is why the OP’s scenario is just that, hypothetical. It is funny too depending on how you look at it.

What is sin, by the way? What do we have to do in order to constitute it as a sin which deserves punishment? Looking through the Bible, it does not have to be always something conventional which we thought would make a sin, like murder or adultery. You would have people like Uzzah in the OT or Ananias and Shapira in the NT who were cruelly punished for the things that we would think today are perfectly normal.

As for deliberately eating meat on a Good Friday, if anything, it is like gluttony – eating when you are not supposed to, and it is still a sin anyway.

So sin often time depends on your core value. If you value something, you may or may not do it depends on what it is because you value it in doing so.

God bless.

 

[frangiuliano115]

And oh, poor Eve, it was just an apple after all.

Depending on where you are coming from, certain form of sin can be pretty silly and who can argue with that.

But if you are a Catholic, more so one with good standing, you may very well love steak very much but you will be pretty sure it is one day in the 365 days of the year where you would not eat it. You will not find a single Catholic deliberately enjoying steak on a Good Friday. That is why the OP’s scenario is just that, hypothetical. It is funny too depending on how you look at it.

What is sin, by the way? What do we have to do in order to constitute it as a sin which deserves punishment? Looking through the Bible, it does not have to be always something conventional which we thought would make a sin, like murder or adultery. You would have people like Uzzah in the OT or Ananias and Shapira in the NT who were cruelly punished for the things that we would think today are perfectly normal.

As for deliberately eating meat on a Good Friday, if anything, it is like gluttony – eating when you are not supposed to, and it is still a sin anyway.

So sin often time depends on your core value. If you value something, you may or may not do it depends on what it is because you value it in doing so.

God bless.

Reuben
I’m in a different time zone and will be leaving.
Just a couple of things.

Eve did not eat an apple. The problem is that ADAM ate the fruit. We shouldn’t make fun of the Genesis story. It has a lot to say about US.

Regarding how I feel about sin: You could just read the post I just shipped off to Confiteor Deo. i think it’s clear that I understand sin very well.

Regarding eating meat on Fridays and how a Catholic in good standing would not do this: I hesitate to say what I would like to say. Let’s just say this: Many good Catholics eat meat on Friday, maybe even Good Friday - depends.

And regarding sin in the bible and Uzzah and Shapira. Moses hit a stone with his rod. He died. Why was that? Is it the hitting of the stone with the rod that counts OR the REASON he hit the stone with the rod?

Ditto for the meat on Fridays problem.

FG

 

[godisgood77]

No he would not have condemned himself nor committed a mortal sin. It has to be grave matter. Eating a steak when you not supposed to is not grave matter…check the 10 commandments for what constitutes grave matter.

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben
I’m in a different time zone and will be leaving.
Just a couple of things.

Eve did not eat an apple. The problem is that ADAM ate the fruit. ** We shouldn’t make fun of the Genesis story. It has a lot to say about US.**

Regarding how I feel about sin: You could just read the post I just shipped off to Confiteor Deo. i think it’s clear that I understand sin very well.

Regarding eating meat on Fridays and how a Catholic in good standing would not do this: I hesitate to say what I would like to say. Let’s just say this: Many good Catholics eat meat on Friday, maybe even Good Friday - depends.

And regarding sin in the bible and Uzzah and Shapira. Moses hit a stone with his rod. He died. Why was that? Is it the hitting of the stone with the rod that counts OR the REASON he hit the stone with the rod?

Ditto for the meat on Fridays problem.

FG

Hi. I hope you know what you are saying in the context of your responding to my post. You are actually supporting what I was saying. We can think that some sins are silly which is what you are actually saying, specifically about eating meat on Friday. So no, I am not making fun of Eve or people of the Bible but just to demonstrate to you what people did that deserved the anger of God. And we can very well justify what they did as we do today.

As for eating steak on a Good Friday – no Catholics would do that if given all the information that he/she should know.

Do you observe Good Friday or what it means to you? I am asking because I am not sure how non-Catholics regard it.

As for Catholics, it is one day in a year that is most important to them, more than even a Christmas. We are taught to understand Good Friday and to know that God paid a price for giving us Easter. In some Catholic communities, people are willing to flog themselves as they remember Jesus death on the cross. Not that we should flog ourselves but just to tell you how profound it is for Catholics that Jesus gave his life for our redemption.

Good Friday is not just a day of rest but one of deep reflection and prayers. You cannot imagine how a Catholic feels on this day; you have to be one to know. What I am saying, to purposely enjoying yourself by treating yourself to a steak on this day instead of deep prayer and fasting, is like a rejection of Jesus, of the Church, a rebellion against what Jesus had done to you. …

It does not matter what you do but if it is against your belief and God, you can be sure you are committing sin.

Christianity is a community. We are a people who are set apart. In ordinary circumstances Uzzah or Ananias and Shapira could get away with what they did but they were ruled by the belief of their communities respectively and thus paid the price for their transgression. Sin is like that.

If you think it is not sin, you will do it but you don’t if you think it is. Those Catholics who purposely eat steak on a Good Friday, well, they have to face whatever consequence that come with their action. But that is beside the point. A sin is a sin.

I am glad you have a personal understanding of what is sin. We can differ on the specific depends on how we are taught or what our belief is. I am not going to argue on it because what you would tell me is valid for you.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

No. His error in this instance does not alter the actual disposition of the law. A person does not commit sin for choosing to miss that Mass that they were sure they were obliged to attend but which, in fact, the law did not oblige. They were mistaken and there is no sin to absolve.

A priest also told me that if we commit an act that we believe to be a mortal sin, we commit a mortal sin even if the act itself is not a mortal sin since, when we committed the act, we believed it to be a mortal sin. Here is what the Baltimore Catechism says about this.

Suppose during Lent a person should mistake Friday for Thursday and should eat meat - that person would not commit a real sin, because it is not a sin to eat meat on an ordinary Thursday. He would commit what we call a material sin; that is, his action would be a sin if he really knew what he was doing. On the other hand, if the person, thinking it was Friday when it was really Thursday, ate meat, knowing it to be forbidden, that person would commit a mortal sin, because he intended to do so. Therefore, if what we do is not known to be a sin while we do it, it is no sin for us and cannot become a sin afterwards. But as soon as we know or learn what we did was wrong, it would be a sin if we did the same thing again. In the same way, everything we do thinking it to be wrong or sinful is wrong or sinful for us, thought it may not be wrong for those who know better.