Meat on Good Friday...Mortal Sin?

[Confiteor_Deo]

The church has taken too much responsibility upon itself and is now paying the consequences. The chuch should never say that we have to do something because “the church” says to but because God says to. Catholics think the church does not allow divorce. It’s GOD who does not allow divorce. People think the church does not allow homosexuality. It’s GOD who does not allow homosexuality. So, yes, the church has taken on too much responsibility.

It’s trying to get away from this but legalistic people such as yourself are making it very difficult. Pope Francis must get dry mouth declaring that we must be merciful. But are we? In your above post, you just got through telling me I’m going to hell if I miss Mass AND only ONE Mass. First of all, the commandment is not, Thou Shalt Not Miss Mass, BUT Remember to keep holy the Sabbath. Wonder what that means? Do you work on Sunday (the new Sabbath)? Do you go shopping on Sunday? Do you do any household jobs? Do you get angry with anyone? Well, you’ve just broken the Sabbath, did not keep it holy and must be going straight to hell. Does that sound merciful to you?

The church can bind or loose. I’m good with that. But it has bound too much and now things need to be loosened so we don’t die choking. I’m speaking to civil and ceremonial laws (such as not eating meat on Fridays) and NOT to moral laws. Those MUST be kept. Jesus did not come to abolish the Law (the Moral Law).

EVERY offense is a serious offense to God. Do you realize how perfect He is? Could you bear His shekinah glory and his magnificence? I believe none of us can. So, yes, every sin is a grave sin to such a perfect being.

It’s very easy to get to heaven. Believe in the name of the Lord, and thou shalt be saved.
Acts 16:31
Jesus is our rest.
Mathew 11:28.30

Isn’t this strange? I just got through saying that to God any little thing is sin, and yet it’s easy to get to heaven. The secret is in Romans and every other book in the N.T.

And, by the way, this does NOT negate James. Faith without works IS dead. Jesus told us to do many works. We should know what they are…

Interesting concept. Things were easier when you were told EXACTLY what to do. Seems like for some it’s easier to follow a set of rules than to love with the heart.
You like the O.T. Are you familiar with the story of Ruth?

So she’d be thrashing that wheat on the floor. And some of it had to be left for the poor - so they could pick it up after the women left, and they’d have something to eat.
What is easier: Telling Ruth she had to leave 10% on the floor (O.C.)
OR
Telling her she could leave whatever she wanted to but her heart had to be in the offering? (N.C.) I guess you could change that C to a T. Same difference.

I welcome the change. I welcome the mercy of God. I welcome an open heart. I think this change will be good. I’m expecting more.

FG

The Church’s precepts are very lenient. All you have to do is hear Mass on Sundays & holy days and not eat meat on Lenten Fridays among other light obligations. Any claims that such disciplines are choking the faithful are completely unfounded. Again, the Church has the authority to bind & loose, and she has bound us under pain of mortal sin to hear Mass on Sundays & holy days. It isn’t my opinion that it is a mortal sin to skip one Mass, it is the teaching of the Church. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church it says, "2181 For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants). Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.” The Church has always taught this. If you are expecting the Holy Father to make the disciplines easier, you are going to be disappointed. The disciplines have nothing to do with mercy.

It seems that I didn’t make my example of the priests clear enough. You say that such a light offense, such as skipping Mass, is not serious enough to be a mortal sin. In the Old Testament, priests who merely burnt some incense when it wasn’t prescribed were burned to death by God. God didn’t burn people alive for any little sin, He killed people that committed serious sins. A seemingly minor offense can actually be a mortal sin in the eyes of God. It is not sufficient to merely believe in the name of Our Lord to be saved. We must do good works which means we must fulfill the precepts & counsels. It is a teaching of the Church that one serious transgression will condemn us to Hell. To make it seem as if it is difficult to condemn yourself to Hell is incorrect.

 

[frangiuliano115]

No he would not have condemned himself nor committed a mortal sin. It has to be grave matter. Eating a steak when you not supposed to is not grave matter…check the 10 commandments for what constitutes grave matter.

 

[frangiuliano115]

The Church’s precepts are very lenient. All you have to do is hear Mass on Sundays & holy days and not eat meat on Lenten Fridays among other light obligations. Any claims that such disciplines are choking the faithful are completely unfounded. Again, the Church has the authority to bind & loose, and she has bound us under pain of mortal sin to hear Mass on Sundays & holy days. It isn’t my opinion that it is a mortal sin to skip one Mass, it is the teaching of the Church. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church it says, "2181 For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants). Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.” The Church has always taught this. If you are expecting the Holy Father to make the disciplines easier, you are going to be disappointed. The disciplines have nothing to do with mercy.

It seems that I didn’t make my example of the priests clear enough. You say that such a light offense, such as skipping Mass, is not serious enough to be a mortal sin. In the Old Testament, priests who merely burnt some incense when it wasn’t prescribed were burned to death by God. God didn’t burn people alive for any little sin, He killed people that committed serious sins. A seemingly minor offense can actually be a mortal sin in the eyes of God. It is not sufficient to merely believe in the name of Our Lord to be saved. We must do good works which means we must fulfill the precepts & counsels. It is a teaching of the Church that one serious transgression will condemn us to Hell. To make it seem as if it is difficult to condemn yourself to Hell is incorrect.

Apparently you have a misconception of what sin is.
GOD alone declares sin.
The church could make rules, regulations, doctrine, dogma. But only God can decide what sin is.

Also, you made your idea of the priests very clear in your first post to me. It seems you didn’t understand my reply. Are you living under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?
When the priest holds up the eucharist, he proclaims The New and Everlasting Covenant. I was referring to that - I think you didn’t catch it. It seems important to me to know the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

Who said you only have to believe in the name of the Lord to be saved. I did hate using the word “only” but I’m just repeating what you said. Believing in Jesus seems to be very important so the word “only” shouldn’t be in that same sentence.

Did we discuss works? I didn’t think so. You have many preconceived notions just because I have “christian” as my religious affiliation.

And now GOD KILLED PEOPLE WHO COMMITTED SERIOUS SIN.

i thought one of the commandments was. Thou Shalt Not Kill.

You mean God breaks His own rules and laws and commandments?
How does that let Him be a just God?
Did Jesus break any of the commandments?
Would it have been okay if He had just because He’s God?

There’s so much more to think about and ponder than sin. But there’s a particular sacrament that tends to let one do this. Concentrate on sin, I mean.

FG

 

[Reuben_J]

GOD alone declares sin.

FG

Or people he authorized to. ‘What you bind on earth will be bound in heaven’.

Not me, Jesus said it.

 

[rcwitness]

St Paul to the Colossians

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath.These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.Let no one disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the universe, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations, “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” (referring to things which all perish as they are used), according to human precepts and doctrines? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh.

I believe the Church herself does not hold any of her precepts as bound to everlasting damnation.

 

[rcwitness]

The Church’s precepts are very lenient. All you have to do is hear Mass on Sundays & holy days and not eat meat on Lenten Fridays among other light obligations. Any claims that such disciplines are choking the faithful are completely unfounded. Again, the Church has the authority to bind & loose, and she has bound us under pain of mortal sin to hear Mass on Sundays & holy days. It isn’t my opinion that it is a mortal sin to skip one Mass, it is the teaching of the Church. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church it says, "2181 For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants). Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.” The Church has always taught this. If you are expecting the Holy Father to make the disciplines easier, you are going to be disappointed. The disciplines have nothing to do with mercy.

I agree that these two Precepts are very important. I don’t take them lightly. But I don’t do them out of mere obligation either. I do them because the Church does them. I believe participating in Mass should be done as often as we are able, this is true. I believe we should fast/abstain (probably in accordance with our prayers… to offer our sincerity), and the Easter season is appropriate for a corporal fast/abstinence.

Do these carry the same weight as corporal and spiritual works of mercy?

It seems that I didn’t make my example of the priests clear enough. You say that such a light offense, such as skipping Mass, is not serious enough to be a mortal sin. In the Old Testament, priests who merely burnt some incense when it wasn’t prescribed were burned to death by God. God didn’t burn people alive for any little sin, He killed people that committed serious sins. A seemingly minor offense can actually be a mortal sin in the eyes of God. It is not sufficient to merely believe in the name of Our Lord to be saved. We must do good works which means we must fulfill the precepts & counsels. It is a teaching of the Church that one serious transgression will condemn us to Hell. To make it seem as if it is difficult to condemn yourself to Hell is incorrect.

I agree with fran115 about Old and New separation. I don’t know about the rest of his/her post, but Catholics do tend to blur the line when using tenents of the O.T.

Only God judges, and I hope He does not use these precepts as a cause for condemning anyone to hell. And I think the Church would hope the same.

But a mortal sin is just that… a stubborn cold closed heart to God’s warm, life giving blood. A self willed defiance to remorse for offending God.

 

[Reuben_J]

The Church’s precepts are very lenient. All you have to do is hear Mass on Sundays & holy days and not eat meat on Lenten Fridays among other light obligations. Any claims that such disciplines are choking the faithful are completely unfounded. Again, the Church has the authority to bind & loose, and she has bound us under pain of mortal sin to hear Mass on Sundays & holy days. It isn’t my opinion that it is a mortal sin to skip one Mass, it is the teaching of the Church. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church it says, "2181 For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants). Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.” The Church has always taught this. If you are expecting the Holy Father to make the disciplines easier, you are going to be disappointed. The disciplines have nothing to do with mercy.

It seems that I didn’t make my example of the priests clear enough. You say that such a light offense, such as skipping Mass, is not serious enough to be a mortal sin. In the Old Testament, priests who merely burnt some incense when it wasn’t prescribed were burned to death by God. God didn’t burn people alive for any little sin, He killed people that committed serious sins. A seemingly minor offense can actually be a mortal sin in the eyes of God. It is not sufficient to merely believe in the name of Our Lord to be saved. We must do good works which means we must fulfill the precepts & counsels. It is a teaching of the Church that one serious transgression will condemn us to Hell. To make it seem as if it is difficult to condemn yourself to Hell is incorrect.

Just read this post and I think it is a great one. I agree with it totally.

Yes, we may wish it is easier but there is no tip-toeing over it. A sin is a sin. If one is justifying why one is doing it, that would be the easiest way to know that one has committed a sin.

Today, Catholicism has been watered down much and quite frankly it can be quite difficult to call sin for what it is. We mix with non-Catholics who most of the time actually committed what we Catholics should not be doing. The fact that abstaining meat on Good Friday has become such a rarity for some, it is no wonder why we have begun doubtful on what sin is.

Yes, the Church Commandments are not choking the faithful. No Catholics have complained that they are choking them. When we fail to live up to the Commandments we could only regret on why we could not live them out in our lives.

Once we question them, then there must be something wrong with us as most likely we are looking away from the direction of the Church and for that there would be only way one to go – away from Catholicism. And that is a reminder to ourselves – to make a turning back once again.

God bless.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Or people he authorized to. ‘What you bind on earth will be bound in heaven’.

Not me, Jesus said it.

Could you please tell me what loosing and binding means?

FG

 

[frangiuliano115]

Just read this post and I think it is a great one. I agree with it totally.

**Yes, we may wish it is easier but there is no tip-toeing over it. **A sin is a sin. If one is justifying why one is doing it, that would be the easiest way to know that one has committed a sin.

Today, Catholicism has been watered down much and quite frankly it can be quite difficult to call sin for what it is. We mix with non-Catholics who most of the time actually committed what we Catholics should not be doing. The fact that abstaining meat on Good Friday has become such a rarity for some, it is no wonder why we have begun doubtful on what sin is.

Yes, the Church Commandments are not choking the faithful. No Catholics have complained that they are choking them. When we fail to live up to the Commandments we could only regret on why we could not live them out in our lives.

Once we question them, then there must be something wrong with us as most likely we are looking away from the direction of the Church and for that there would be only way one to go – away from Catholicism. And that is a reminder to ourselves – to make a turning back once again.

God bless.

You think it is easier Reuben?

Please read Mathew 5:2-10
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:13
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:14-15
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:20
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:21.22
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:25
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:27-28
Have you done this?

There’s much more. Pretty much chapters 5, 6 and 7.

So, you see, Jesus made it VERY DIFFICULT.
Which is why you need HIM.

You don’t know you are sinning because you are justifying it. You know you are sinning because YOU FEEL SORRY for being a weak person, which is normal. If you are justifying the sin, do you consider that the person sinning is a disciple of Christ? I think not. Love makes you not want to hurt a person - ditto for hurting Jesus.

Not eating meat on a Friday and other such rules is what has turned many Catholics away from their faith. NOT the fact that the rule has been watered down. They have started to understand that doing an ACTION has nothing to do with one’s FAITH.
The church making such rules is a disservice to the Laws of God which were given for specific purposes and those purposes were to keep one morally close to God. How does not eating meat keep one close to God if he’s doing it JUST to satisfy a church rule?
If he’s doing it to fast, that’s a different story OR if he’s doing it because he feels it will spiritually bring him close to God - but then he can’t go and substitute the steak with fish or some other good food. Is this so difficult to understand?

We’re not talking about commandments here Reuben. We’re talking about church regulations.

And yes, they have choked many as can be witnessed by empty churches.
I do not mean by this that the church should adhere to the world.
I spoke about responsibility in a different post and will not repeat.

Just wanted to correct your misunderstanding of what I’m saying.
I apologize if your comments were not regarding my posts.

FG

 

[frangiuliano115]

St Paul to the Colossians

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath.These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.Let no one disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the universe, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations, “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” (referring to things which all perish as they are used), according to human precepts and doctrines? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh.

I believe the Church herself does not hold any of her precepts as bound to everlasting damnation.

 

[frangiuliano115]

I agree that these two Precepts are very important. I don’t take them lightly. But I don’t do them out of mere obligation either. I do them because the Church does them. I believe participating in Mass should be done as often as we are able, this is true. I believe we should fast/abstain (probably in accordance with our prayers… to offer our sincerity), and the Easter season is appropriate for a corporal fast/abstinence.

Do these carry the same weight as corporal and spiritual works of mercy?

I agree with fran115 about Old and New separation. I don’t know about the rest of his/her post, but Catholics do tend to blur the line when using tenents of the O.T.

Only God judges, and I hope He does not use these precepts as a cause for condemning anyone to hell. And I think the Church would hope the same.

But a mortal sin is just that… a stubborn cold closed heart to God’s warm, life giving blood. A self willed defiance to remorse for offending God.

You’ve explained it well RC. Sometimes I have a problem getting a point across.
God is Good.
God is Just.

Does sending someone to hell because he disobeyed a church rule reflect being JUST?
And it also does not reflect love.

LOVE.
James 2:7-13
James 2:13

JUDGEMENT:
Romans 2:12
Galatians 3:23
Galatians 4:5

FG

 

[Reuben_J]

1/2

Could you please tell me what loosing and binding means?

FG

The phrase had its origin from the old Jewish law which is understandable, Jesus being a Jew himself. Basically it means to declare something forbidden or to declare it allowed.

Just saying, since you asked.

You think it is easier Reuben?

Please read Mathew 5:2-10
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:13
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:14-15
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:20
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:21.22
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:25
Have you done this?

Mathew 5:27-28
Have you done this?

There’s much more. Pretty much chapters 5, 6 and 7.

So, you see, Jesus made it VERY DIFFICULT.
Which is why you need HIM.

I truly agree with you there which is what I was saying. It is not easy. That is why we need HIM.

But there are more to that. We have the Church’s Commandments which we have to observe too. And they are probably not easy too. That is why we need HIM. And there were and are many Catholics who find it is a joy to follow these Commandments and able to do them, with God’s grace of course.

You don’t know you are sinning because you are justifying it.

Agreed. Sometimes we justify what we do and think it is not a sin. I say if you find yourself justifying your action and say it is not a sin, probably it may be a sin. If it is righteous action, it does not need justifying.

You know you are sinning because YOU FEEL SORRY for being a weak person, which is normal.

Agreed there.

If you are justifying the sin, do you consider that the person sinning is a disciple of Christ? I think not. Love makes you not want to hurt a person - ditto for hurting Jesus.

This would be my concern too.

 

[Reuben_J]

2/2

Not eating meat on a Friday and other such rules is what has turned many Catholics away from their faith.

This statement is debatable. This Easter we have slightly more than a thousand candidates being baptized Catholics, our archdiocese being consisted of many smaller parishes. Many of them were former Protestants. They had undergone about a year RCIA program which among other things, they would have been introduced to the Church’s Commandments. Since they decided to get baptized/confirmed anyway, perhaps they had accepted those ‘rules’ as well.

The six Church Commandments that every Catholics have to observe are:

1. to keep the Sundays and Holy Days of obligation holy, by hearing Mass and resting from servile work;
2. to keep the days of fasting and abstinence appointed by the Church;
3. to go to confession at least once a year;
4. to receive the Blessed Sacrament at least once a year and that at Easter or thereabouts;
5. to contribute to the support of our pastors;
6. not to marry within a certain degree of kindred nor to solemnize marriage at the forbidden times.

NOT the fact that the rule has been watered down. They have started to understand that doing an ACTION has nothing to do with one’s FAITH.

You are putting word in my mouth or perhaps there is lack of comprehension. If there is watering down of the Church’s rules by Catholics themselves, it is because they have been influenced by non-Catholic practices or that the faith is lacking.

The Catholic Church teaching is very clear; so either take it or leave it. She cannot change her teaching to fit those who disagree with her.

The church making such rules is a disservice to the Laws of God which were given for specific purposes and those purposes were to keep one morally close to God. How does not eating meat keep one close to God if he’s doing it JUST to satisfy a church rule?

It is abstaining meat on Friday during Lent and definitely on Good Friday. On other Fridays, one can substitute it with other form of abstinence.

This is in the context of prayer, fasting and reflection, not just for the sake of avoiding meat because some Bishops feel good about telling the flock to follow their directive.

The practice is corporate, them being one Body. This is not something new and if you are a Catholic you would be quite well versed in it.

What happened on Friday? It was when Jesus died. To Catholics this had profound meaning that when God gave us Easter, He paid a price for it for our redemption.

So basically the practice is an affirmation of the faith. Now why would you disobey it? Why would you disobey your Church when it is stated clearly that you must follow?

If he’s doing it to fast, that’s a different story OR if he’s doing it because he feels it will spiritually bring him close to God - but then he can’t go and substitute the steak with fish or some other good food. Is this so difficult to understand?

Fasting in the Catholic context may involve abstaining, and here she decided on meat. Of course for a non-meat eater, it is obviously not very much but the fact that the Catholic Church does it corporately still brings meaning to it.

I am sorry it (fasting/abstainence) is done differently as how you want to do it.

We’re not talking about commandments here Reuben. We’re talking about church regulations.

Why are we talking about church regulation? I was talking about the Church’s Commandments.

A side note: I was chided by another Catholic’s poster for using the word, Church’s law, because boy, there are many canons (laws) and sure enough these are not what I meant.

And yes, they have choked many as can be witnessed by empty churches.

I do not mean by this that the church should adhere to the world.

I spoke about responsibility in a different post and will not repeat.

The decrease in church going is across the board. Maybe more for some and less for others. That does not prove anything.

People leaving because of hard teaching is nothing news. It happened even when Jesus was teaching.

Just wanted to correct your misunderstanding of what I’m saying.

I apologize if your comments were not regarding my posts.
FG

No problem. Be blessed.

Reuben

 

[frangiuliano115]

1/2

The phrase had its origin from the old Jewish law which is understandable, Jesus being a Jew himself. Basically it means to declare something forbidden or to declare it allowed.

Just saying, since you asked.

I truly agree with you there which is what I was saying. It is not easy. That is why we need HIM.

But there are more to that. We have the Church’s Commandments which we have to observe too. And they are probably not easy too. That is why we need HIM. And there were and are many Catholics who find it is a joy to follow these Commandments and able to do them, with God’s grace of course.

Agreed. Sometimes we justify what we do and think it is not a sin. I say if you find yourself justifying your action and say it is not a sin, probably it may be a sin. If it is righteous action, it does not need justifying.

Agreed there.

This would be my concern too.

You’ll get no argument from me!

I would just like to say that a rule of the church, IMHO, could NOT lead to hell.

FG

 

[frangiuliano115]

2/2

This statement is debatable. This Easter we have slightly more than a thousand candidates being baptized Catholics, our archdiocese being consisted of many smaller parishes. Many of them were former Protestants. They had undergone about a year RCIA program which among other things, they would have been introduced to the Church’s Commandments. Since they decided to get baptized/confirmed anyway, perhaps they had accepted those ‘rules’ as well.

I’m starting to repeat myself and it must be boring for readers. But quick:
Depends on the Parish, I guess.
Protestant churches are having their difficulties too.
Rules MUST be accepted if you’re to be part of a group. I agree wholeheartedly.

The six Church Commandments that every Catholics have to observe are:

1. to keep the Sundays and Holy Days of obligation holy, by hearing Mass and resting from servile work;
2. to keep the days of fasting and abstinence appointed by the Church;
3. to go to confession at least once a year;
4. to receive the Blessed Sacrament at least once a year and that at Easter or thereabouts;
5. to contribute to the support of our pastors;
6. not to marry within a certain degree of kindred nor to solemnize marriage at the forbidden times.

I agree here too. I just don’t agree that the church could declare any to be a mortal sin leading to hell. I did speak to keeping the Sabbath in an earlier post. I like the term “keeping the Sabbath” better than “hearing Mass”. The punishment would not fit the crime and God is a good and a JUST God.

You are putting word in my mouth or perhaps there is lack of comprehension. If there is watering down of the Church’s rules by Catholics themselves, it is because they have been influenced by non-Catholic practices or that the faith is lacking.

I wasn’t putting words in your mouth. I was stating what I believe. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

The Catholic Church teaching is very clear; so either take it or leave it. She cannot change her teaching to fit those who disagree with her.

The church is not a democracy! I agree. The church should not conform to the world - the world should conform to the church.
She has changed some teachings however, and this leaves some bothered. I personally think the changes are for the better…

Must go.
To be continued later on…

FG

It is abstaining meat on Friday during Lent and definitely on Good Friday. On other Fridays, one can substitute it with other form of abstinence.

This is in the context of prayer, fasting and reflection, not just for the sake of avoiding meat because some Bishops feel good about telling the flock to follow their directive.

The practice is corporate, them being one Body. This is not something new and if you are a Catholic you would be quite well versed in it.

What happened on Friday? It was when Jesus died. To Catholics this had profound meaning that when God gave us Easter, He paid a price for it for our redemption.

So basically the practice is an affirmation of the faith. Now why would you disobey it? Why would you disobey your Church when it is stated clearly that you must follow?

Fasting in the Catholic context may involve abstaining, and here she decided on meat. Of course for a non-meat eater, it is obviously not very much but the fact that the Catholic Church does it corporately still brings meaning to it.

I am sorry it (fasting/abstainence) is done differently as how you want to do it.

Why are we talking about church regulation? I was talking about the Church’s Commandments.

A side note: I was chided by another Catholic’s poster for using the word, Church’s law, because boy, there are many canons (laws) and sure enough these are not what I meant.

The decrease in church going is across the board. Maybe more for some and less for others. That does not prove anything.

People leaving because of hard teaching is nothing news. It happened even when Jesus was teaching.

No problem. Be blessed.

Reuben

 

[rcwitness]

You’ll get no argument from me!

I would just like to say that a rule of the church, IMHO, could NOT lead to hell.

FG

What about this one…

Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsab′bas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren,23with the following letter: “The brethren, both the apostles and the elders, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cili′cia, greeting.24Since we have heard that some persons from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,25it has seemed good to us in assembly to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,26men who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ.27We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth.28For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:29that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled *and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

It seems this letter contained necessary laws of the Church. So my belief is if we know to be right and good to the Whole Church, and are willfully opposed to it, without remorse, it is possibly mortal to our soul. IOW, it really isn’t about the meat, or missing a single Mass but whether we are opposed the the “goodness” of devotion to them as the Church has so deeply expressed.

I could ask in this way… Do you believe it seems good to the Holy Spirit that we should participate in Mass worship (coming together on the Lord’s Day for worship and Communion) and Lenten fasting/abstinence (assuming they are observed from the heart)?

 

[frangiuliano115]

What about this one…

Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsab′bas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren,23with the following letter: “The brethren, both the apostles and the elders, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cili′cia, greeting.24Since we have heard that some persons from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,25it has seemed good to us in assembly to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,26men who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ.27We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth.28For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:29that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled *and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

It seems this letter contained necessary laws of the Church. So my belief is if we know to be right and good to the Whole Church, and are willfully opposed to it, without remorse, it is possibly mortal to our soul. IOW, it really isn’t about the meat, or missing a single Mass but whether we are opposed the the “goodness” of devotion to them as the Church has so deeply expressed.

I could ask in this way… Do you believe it seems good to the Holy Spirit that we should participate in Mass worship (coming together on the Lord’s Day for worship and Communion) and Lenten fasting/abstinence (assuming they are observed from the heart)?

The answer to your question:
YES.

But re the laws of the church. I still a law of the church should not condemn you to hell.
Paul and Barnabas went to Antioch because the Christians there were being told they had to do different things that were not necessary in order to be Christian. And they abstain from eating meat sacrificed to gods or idols, from blood (because the life is in the blood) and unchastity and they would be okay.
All of the above are Laws given by God. Meat to gods: God is a jealous God.
Do not eat blood: The Life is in the blood. Genesis 4:10-15 Leviticus 17:11
And you know about unchastity Mathew 15:19 1 Corinthians 10:8
and let’s not forget Exodus 20:14 (the commandment).

FG

 

[HelenRose]

It is Good Friday and I have been reading about eating meat on Good Friday. If I understand the Catholic position the following scenario would be accurate:

A Catholic in good standing with the Church walks by a steak house on Good Friday and is suddenly tempted to have a good rib eye steak. He thinks about his temptation to eat the steak and admits to himself that he knows it is a mortal sin to succumb to his craving today but he willfully decides to eat one anyway. After he is finished eating he gets up from the table feeling very satisfied and immediately drops dead. No thought of confession or chance of confession occured. Does the Church teach that he would immediately have sent himself to Hell with this action?

Keep in mind that our Merciful is not a “gotcha” type of God who sits around in Heaven waiting to zap some poor sinner here on Earth. Gotcha scenarios like your story are figments of a fevered imagination.

 

[rcwitness]

The answer to your question:
YES.

But re the laws of the church. I still a law of the church should not condemn you to hell.
Paul and Barnabas went to Antioch because the Christians there were being told they had to do different things that were not necessary in order to be Christian. And they abstain from eating meat sacrificed to gods or idols, from blood (because the life is in the blood) and unchastity and they would be okay.
All of the above are Laws given by God. Meat to gods: God is a jealous God.
Do not eat blood: The Life is in the blood. Genesis 4:10-15 Leviticus 17:11
And you know about unchastity Mathew 15:19 1 Corinthians 10:8
and let’s not forget Exodus 20:14 (the commandment).

FG

Good reply

And this perspective is not lost on me!

That’s why I think IF someone is failing in these two Precepts of the Church, it’s more the result of deeper issues.

For example:
Life is in the blood! His body and blood are offered in the Mass! Be thankfull, and partake. Keep the Lord’s Day holy. St Paul says, “Do not neglect coming together” and “When you come together for the Lord’s Supper” and “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.”

Can a Christian be faithful and neglect Communion?*

Fasting the minimal amount of abstaining from meat on Good Friday (or at least being sorrowful if the fast is broken!) Is hardly a violation of Christian faithfulness.

But I am not extreme, like some other posters. I do understand your point. But it’s Christians like you who do not neglect these things, right? Or are you opposed to the Holy Mass and joining together in the Church fast of meat on Good Friday?

 

[frangiuliano115]

Good reply

And this perspective is not lost on me!

That’s why I think IF someone is failing in these two Precepts of the Church, it’s more the result of deeper issues.

For example:
Life is in the blood! His body and blood are offered in the Mass! Be thankfull, and partake. Keep the Lord’s Day holy. St Paul says, “Do not neglect coming together” and “When you come together for the Lord’s Supper” and “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.”

Can a Christian be faithful and neglect Communion?*

Fasting the minimal amount of abstaining from meat on Good Friday (or at least being sorrowful if the fast is broken!) Is hardly a violation of Christian faithfulness.

But I am not extreme, like some other posters. I do understand your point. But it’s Christians like you who do not neglect these things, right? Or are you opposed to the Holy Mass and joining together in the Church fast of meat on Good Friday?

You’re very good with scripture RC. I like talking to you because I like to hear different people - one could always learn something new. A different twist or perspective. I went to a bible study about a month ago (Catholic) and it was about Jesus preaching from a boat in the water so the crowd could see and hear Him better. The Deacon said the sea represented the world. It was beautiful. I had never thought of that. We could help each other a lot to know the Word of God.

One should go to Mass/Service. I like to receive communion. But I’ve found that sometimes one is held back from this. For different reasons. Could be health, physical, mental. Could be family problems. Maybe one day you just can’t make it out of bed.
I dislike people telling others that they’re going to hell. They don’t know the situation.

We can judge a wrong action. We can say that the man in the O.P.'s example should NOT have eaten the steak. BUT, we cannot judge a persons soul. That is for God alone. We CANNOT say that person is going to hell because he has a mortal sin. Only God can know that. This is sometimes called legalism or phariseeism. Not good. We’re here to help each other and love each other. John 13:35

As far as eating meat on Friday; if you mean it and do it willingly and understand why, it’s fine. If you’re doing it just because the church told you to, it’s a waste of time. Maybe in some grand scheme of things it’s not a waste of time - God has mysterious ways. But it will not help the person. I know people like this. They seem to do all the right things, but are far from God.

In Christ
FG