Meat on Lenten Friday = mortal sin = hell?

[SteveGC]

Meat on Lenten Friday = mortal sin = hell?
Seems about as off the wall as missing the Assumption of Mary day of obligation and being then in mortal sin.

About as off the wall as The Church herself is to you, I’m sure. This is not surprising.

 

[gerard811]

Meat on Lenten Friday = mortal sin = hell?
Seems about as off the wall as missing the Assumption of Mary day of obligation and being then in mortal sin.

That also bothers me, but that’s a topic for another thread. Briefly, what specifically bothers me about Holy Days is when one diocese does not need to observe the Holy Day for some reason, yet a diocese a few miles away must observe it. So, all the people who got permission not to go to mass, they don’t commit a mortal sin. But my family a few miles away misses mass and is now in a state of mortal sin.

 

[gerard811]

It is because we BELIVE Jesus “the gates of hell shall not prevail”

Yeah, but making a simple error is not the same as Hell prevailing over something.

 

[gerard811]

I think we’d be willing to listen to your examples. I know I would be.

The topic of this thread is one example. Seems to me in almost all cases eating a bit of meat on a Friday of Lent would be a venial sin. It would be a mortal sin only if you chose to eat it for a serious reason, such as purely out of hatred or just to anger God.

 

[fix]

[1899](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1899.htm’) The authority required by the moral order derives from God: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."17

[2037](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2037.htm’) The law of God entrusted to the Church is taught to the faithful as the way of life and truth. The faithful therefore have the *right *to be instructed in the divine saving precepts that purify judgment and, with grace, heal wounded human reason.79 They have the *duty *of observing the constitutions and decrees conveyed by the legitimate authority of the Church. Even if they concern disciplinary matters, these determinations call for docility in charity.

 

[bilop]

The topic of this thread is one example. Seems to me in almost all cases eating a bit of meat on a Friday of Lent would be a venial sin. It would be a mortal sin only if you chose to eat it for a serious reason, such as purely out of hatred or just to anger God.

But, unless you honestly forget, there is no other reason than hatred of God or contempt for His Church.

Your arguments here make no sense. The Church can not be “wrong” to institute abstinance on Fridays. How can it be a bad thing to abstain from meat in commemoration of Christ’s crucifixion? (It has already been covered that those with health reasons are exempt.)

Even if it is not a divine law, what good reason can you have for breaking it intentionally?

The only possible reason is to show that you know better than the Church. That you are the arbiter or right and wrong. In doing that, you are making yourself out to be God, and committing a most grievous sin.

God Bless

 

[Sir_Knight]

That also bothers me, but that’s a topic for another thread. Briefly, what specifically bothers me about Holy Days is when one diocese does not need to observe the Holy Day for some reason, yet a diocese a few miles away must observe it. So, all the people who got permission not to go to mass, they don’t commit a mortal sin. But my family a few miles away misses mass and is now in a state of mortal sin.

American citizen insured by All-State driving in NJ makes a U-turn and gets a ticket seeing his insurance rates go up. American citizen insured by All-State driving in FL makes a U-turn and doesn’t get a ticket and insurance rates don’t go up.

Same concept with different rules for different dioceses.

The Governor in NJ can force those under his jurisdiction to conform to certain rules and regulations in the same manner that a Bishop can require those that he shepards to conform to certain regulations.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Yeah, but making a simple error is not the same as Hell prevailing over something.

We’re not talking about somebody making an ERROR but somebody who knows what is required of them and deciding not to follow it for whatever reason.

If I forget that tomorrow is Good Friday and have a burger, then there is no sin but if I give in to hunger and decide to have a burger, then there is sin.

 

[kage_ar]

This sin is wilful disobedience to God.

 

[gerard811]

But, unless you honestly forget, there is no other reason than hatred of God or contempt for His Church.

Your arguments here make no sense. The Church can not be “wrong” to institute abstinance on Fridays. How can it be a bad thing to abstain from meat in commemoration of Christ’s crucifixion? (It has already been covered that those with health reasons are exempt.)

Even if it is not a divine law, what good reason can you have for breaking it intentionally?

The only possible reason is to show that you know better than the Church. That you are the arbiter or right and wrong. In doing that, you are making yourself out to be God, and committing a most grievous sin.

God Bless

Please don’t misunderstand me: I am not saying abstaining from meat is wrong. I take issue with the idea that eating a piece of meat on a Lenten Friday is a mortal sin. And no, the only possible reason is not to show you know better than the Church. It could be a moment of weakness. That’s not the same as doing something out of pure hatred or arrogance.

Again, perhaps in some very narrow cases we go to Hell for breaking the Lenten meat rule. But in most cases I can’t imagine a merciful and just God would eternally damn us for slipping up and eating a hamburger.

 

[gerard811]

We’re not talking about somebody making an ERROR but somebody who knows what is required of them and deciding not to follow it for whatever reason.

If I forget that tomorrow is Good Friday and have a burger, then there is no sin but if I give in to hunger and decide to have a burger, then there is sin.

I agree. There is a sin there. I just disagree that it’s a mortal sin in that case. It is entirely different if on Good Friday I go into the kitchen and make hamburgers for everybody just to make a point or to mock the rule somehow.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I agree. There is a sin there. I just disagree that it’s a mortal sin in that case. It is entirely different if on Good Friday I go into the kitchen and make hamburgers for everybody just to make a point or to mock the rule somehow.

Please don’t misunderstand me: I am not saying abstaining from meat is wrong. I take issue with the idea that eating a piece of meat on a Lenten Friday is a mortal sin. And no, the only possible reason is not to show you know better than the Church. It could be a moment of weakness. That’s not the same as doing something out of pure hatred or arrogance.

Again, perhaps in some very narrow cases we go to Hell for breaking the Lenten meat rule. But in most cases I can’t imagine a merciful and just God would eternally damn us for slipping up and eating a hamburger.

So the Church, who was given the keys to heaven, teaches via Canon Law already referenced in this thread that it is a mortal sin and you believe that a merciful and just God would never eternally damn us for slipping up and eating a hamburger? Who do you think is correct?

 

[kage_ar]

But in most cases I can’t imagine a merciful and just God would eternally damn us for slipping up and eating a hamburger.

That seems to be the misunderstanding. One cannot accidently commit mortal sin, so, an honest slip up is just that, an accident. One of the three conditions for sin to be mortal is not met (intent).

 

[Holly3278]

Say you eat meat on a Lenten Friday. Then you die without confessing. Does anyone else find it preposterous that such a scenario would lead to eternal damnation? A MORTAL sin? Maybe if you ate the meat purely out of hatred for God, but in most cases, I can’t imagine eating meat would be a mortal sin that damns us forever.

I definitely find it to be preposterous that a person who ate meat on a Lenten Friday should be condemned to eternal Hell. I find it to be totally ridiculous. I feel that the rule about not eating meat on Friday is nothing more than a disciplinary rule, not a doctrine and therefore should not be capable of sending someone to an eternal Hell should they break this rule.

 

[SteveGC]

I agree. There is a sin there. I just disagree that it’s a mortal sin in that case. It is entirely different if on Good Friday I go into the kitchen and make hamburgers for everybody just to make a point or to mock the rule somehow.

Ultimately, God knows your heart, gerard.

I could see where you succumb to a moment of weakness and eat meat, but still remain in a state of grace.

I could also see where someone could deliberately eat meat out of anger for God, and that could plausibly go another way.

Either way, we trust the Church for our guidance, get ourselves to confession when in doubt, and try not to live so scrupulously.

God Bless

 

[gerard811]

Ultimately, God knows your heart, gerard.

I could see where you succumb to a moment of weakness and eat meat, but still remain in a state of grace.

I could also see where someone could deliberately eat meat out of anger for God, and that could plausibly go another way.

Either way, we trust the Church for our guidance, get ourselves to confession when in doubt, and try not to live so scrupulously.

God Bless

Your post gets to the heart of the matter. I agree with you.

 

[Protestantem]

I believe there is nothing wrong with eating meat on good friday where does it say in the bible it is wrong

 

[kage_ar]

I believe there is nothing wrong with eating meat on good friday where does it say in the bible it is wrong

Where it says “you are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” Where it says “whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven”.

Jesus set up a Church. The Church says so.

 

[Protestantem]

where does the catholic church get the idea that eating meat on good Friday is sinful, in my opinion this is just one other thing that the church has made up. The only Person i obey with regards to what is a sin and what is not is God, through the bible. A human being, a sinner can not determine what is sinful and what is not.

The whole peter as the rock thing, i think that is Jesus simply telling him he is going to use him to build his church, this does not suggest he is telling him that he is the first pope.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I believe there is nothing wrong with eating meat on good friday where does it say in the bible it is wrong

Heb. 13:7 commands us to obey our church leaders because they have authority over our souls (Heb. 13:17) and can deliver our souls to Satan (1 Tim. 1:20).

where does the catholic church get the idea that eating meat on good Friday is sinful, in my opinion this is just one other thing that the church has made up. The only Person i obey with regards to what is a sin and what is not is God, through the bible.

So you believe the book that the Catholic Church assembled but not the Church itself? If you don’t believe them, why accept the bible?

A human being, a sinner can not determine what is sinful and what is not.

In John 11:51-52 God allows Caiaphas to prophesy infallibly, even though he was evil and plotted Jesus’ death thus disproving your opinion that sinners can not teach infallibly.

The whole peter as the rock thing, i think that is Jesus simply telling him he is going to use him to build his church, this does not suggest he is telling him that he is the first pope.

Your opinion is incorrect. It has been addressed numerous times on these forums and proven incorrect. Jesus built the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head. Only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.