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aspawloski4th
Guest
You guys don’t give up don’t you . Ths was a company that deals strictly in plant type food. I like the taste of meat, I’m going to continue to eat what tastes good to me.
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athansor
Guest
And that’s your right to do so. I have to wonder, though, if you aren’t interested in hearing about these things or changing your diet at all, why the high level of activity in threads like this?
You guys don’t give up don’t you . Ths was a company that deals strictly in plant type food. I like the taste of meat, I’m going to continue to eat what tastes good to me.
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Newbie2
Guest
That’s a gross oversimplification and is not entirely accurate.
But, I will say that there have been E.coli problems traced to migrant workers in the feedlots…um…defecating in the feedbunks.
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Marfran
Guest
Not possible unless the cook is a cow!!! We are specifically talking about*** Escherichia coli O157:H7 ***here. This is only found in the intestines of cattle.
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Marfran
Guest
Again, we are specifically talking about ***Escherichia coli O157:H7 ***. Don’t confuse the issue.
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Newbie2
Guest
My apologies. I was not aware that we all were talking about a single strain of E. coli. The topic didn’t specify that. I thought it might be interesting to note that other strains of E. coli, that can kill a person just as fast as the strain we apparently are talking about, can be problematic as well.
But I will still stand on my premise: The cook is the final barrior between ourselves and unsafe meat. (Unless the waiter drops the steak)
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rtconstant
Guest
Actually a more recent French report draws opposite conclusions, and that study also takes into account food safety, and affects of pesticides. The British report has drawn some fire due a rather lax approach to the study, such as not taking into account genetically engineered produce. Organic food is higher in antioxidants, and dry minerals, while up to 50% lower in nitrates. These findings also agree with previous studies, from 2003. Even without the benefits, though the food just tastes better.
foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/French-study-says-organic-food-is-healthier
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Marfran
Guest
Originally Posted by Marfran
Yes, exactly. And it all points back to the modern agri-business methods used to maximize profit at the cost of human health/lives. Feeding cattle corn increases E.coli in their guts, and ends up in the meat. Prior to WWII all cattle were grass fed (their natural food). This is not the case TODAY.
Yes, exactly. And it all points back to the modern agri-business methods used to maximize profit at the cost of human health/lives. Feeding cattle corn increases E.coli in their guts, and ends up in the meat. Prior to WWII all cattle were grass fed (their natural food). This is not the case TODAY.
Now that is just a misleading post. The digestive tract is separated in the factory from the skeletal meat. The bacteria in the digestive tract and the bacteria in the feces, is ALL over the plant. It comes in ALL over the cows bodies. They live in their feces, and they cr*p all over themselves in transport. And as careful as the workers try to be (do you really trust underpaid workers), it’s not that hard to contaminate the meat. Post WWII we have much higher amounts of bacteria in cattle feces, of cattle who are fed corn as opposed to grass. The utilization of corn in the diet, is the largest factor affecting the increase of E.coli outbreaks in this country (USA). And again, why are you giving the manufacturers a free pass and putting all the onus on the cook???
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Marfran
Guest
It was specific in the OP. I guess you needed to view the video of the Larry King Show. Children died from eating E.coli infected hamburger contaminated from the plant.
So let the E.coli infected meat roll in unchalleged, and if your child dies it’s because of you, the cook. What about getting a burger at a fast food place? Your child dies and it’s the restaurant’s fault–not the industry who utilizes practices that increase the liklihood of contamination…
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bigfootbob
Guest
So, the bottom line is, can E.coli usually be prevented by properly cooking the meat or not? Does anyone know?
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DOShea
Guest
No, I think we are talking about two different things.
First: Is it “wrong” for the food industry to contaminated food? Yes. If you want to talk about ways you can ensure they don’t, that could be a separate conversation I think. Included in that discussion might be penalties for unsafe practices or penalties for those who don’t maintain proper sanitation. I would be very surprised if we don’t already have something like that, and a huge bureaucracy standing by to send form letters all over the place, and probably two overworked inspectors who can’t be everywhere at once.
Second, you get food from the store; you don’t know where it came from, who handled it, or how. You don’t know if it is full of e-coli, or it has none, but you DO KNOW that cooking it properly will make it safe even if it has e-coli in it. You’re the parent, your kid is hungry… what do you do? Cook it properly, or serve it rare?
THAT is what I’m saying is the parent’s responsibility and if the kids are old enough to be out at the mall eating food on their own, it is their responsibility to ensure their own safety. They don’t get a pass because someone else - who might not even have been aware of it - contaminated their food. I would feel differently if there was no way they could ensure their own safety, but such is not the case.
This stuff isn’t new. Same arguments we had in the USA a hundred years ago with cow’s milk. Could be safe, could not be safe… what to do? No problem, your government will solve it for you. ALL commercially sold milk will be pasteurized. Next problem.
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Newbie2
Guest
I’m not. Read my posts again if you don’t understand what I’m saying. This discussion is getting old. Carry on without me.
"So, the bottom line is, can E.coli usually be prevented by properly cooking the meat or not? Does anyone know? "
Yes, it can be so prevented. As I mentioned, one can eat pus safely if it is cooked properly.
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Marfran
Guest
For anyone else who is joining this discussion sans viewing the video of the Larry King Show–we are specifically talking about Escherichia coli O157:H7, the bacteria found in the intestines and feces of cattle.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Ok, they may be a better study but still doesn’t answer two questions I have, the higher cost for organic food and no standards as to what “organic” means.
The last statement you made, “Even without the benefits, though the food just tastes better.” is subjective and can not be proven.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Right, it is found in the intestines and feces of cattle.
When it gets into the meat it means that the meat has been contaminated. It is not normally found in the meat. It was found in the meat of the processing plant that is discussed in this video.
So what do you want to discuss about this contamination? I have yet to see any substantive discussion about it, other than eating meat is bad.
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Marfran
Guest
No, the bottom line is that should anyone’s child have to die??? Do you understand why we are seeing an increase in these outbreaks? It’s not about the cooking. It’s about the manufacture, and the corn.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Actually it is about the cooking as proper cooking would kill the ecoli that caused the illness that the child died of.
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Marfran
Guest
We are having a nice discussion. Rather than being dismissive of the topic because it does not interest you, please exercise charity and feel free to opt out of the discussion. Thanks, brother.
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Marfran
Guest
***Michael Pollan ***on what’s wrong with feeding corn to a cow: “Because it makes them sick when they eat it in large quantities. A little corn is not going to kill them, but when it’s 80 to 90 percent of their diet, it deranges their metabolism. They are evolved to eat grass, that’s what they’re good at; when you put corn into that amazing organ called the rumen, it acidifies it and creates an environment where acid-loving bacteria such as E. coli 015787 are able to evolve. What’s beautiful is a rumen has a very different ph than a human stomach; whatever bacteria live in the rumen would normally get killed by our stomach acids, but if you make the cow’s digestive system more like ours, any bugs that evolve there will survive their transit to our stomach and go on to possibly make us sick. That’s really the E. coli story, but there are other problems, too: To keep the animals healthy on that corn diet, you have to give them lots of antibiotics, they just wouldn’t survive otherwise.”
By feeding corn to cows we increase the liklihood of contamination to meat–there’s just more bacteria present in the plant, during the slaughter process.
Should ALL the onus really be on the cook???
By feeding corn to cows we increase the liklihood of contamination to meat–there’s just more bacteria present in the plant, during the slaughter process.
Should ALL the onus really be on the cook???
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DOShea
Guest
Well I agree with the poster. The thread starts off with the alarming topic title that “hamburger” is deadly - that’s it, and a link to a video that is 29+ minutes long, and doesn’t play. From that, we morph to the death of the poor children, and how it is the fault of some large argribusiness that is - what? - out to make dollars while intentionally killing people? I’m not sure, because as the poster points out, there is plenty of accusation, but not a single line of discussion about what to do about it.
We have established that no matter the contamination level of the meat from this one specific strain, all danger can be removed by cooking it properly. But we don’t seem to want to place any responsibility there, we want to place it on someone who feeds corn to cows.
Now I don’t know how many of you actually HAVE cattle, but if there are any of you who do, I want to hear from you if you feed your cattle corn during their entire growing period. Please… let me know because I want to know how you can afford to do that. Everyone else seems to range feed (grass) until 30-60 days before market (slaughter). The reason for that is you wouldn’t buy that meat if it was purely grass fed. It tastes wild and almost gamey, and you would return it to the supermarket or send it to a lab if you got any it tastes that bad.
Cattle are shipped to what are called “finishing houses,” where they are removed from the grass diet and placed on a corn diet to flush that gamey sort of taste out of their meat. That is an expensive step, but it’s necessary because no respectable meat processor will buy your steers otherwise, because they don’t want lousy tasting beef associated with them just because you want to do it on the cheap.
The feed at finishing houses is inspected but not primarily for e-coli, the biggest danger is from fungi that can grow on the corn and poison/taint the beef or actually kill the cow. So that is the primary focus of the inspections. You could pass every inspection and still mishandle the corn and cause contamination. It isn’t something you can just look at it and tell, that’s why even the beef industry backs the guidelines for safe handling and cooking of beef to ensure contaminants are killed prior to serving.
If the topic is going to be about agri-producers, then let’s see something more than half-working Larry King footage. How about some inspection results, we have any of those? Do we have anything showing the agri-giant knew the contamination was going on and refused to take any steps whatsoever, or is this a case where they didn’t take all the steps someone outside that industry demanded they take? I’d like to see some facts if that’s where the topic is supposed to go.
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