Meat: What you don't know can kill you

[Marfran]

First: Is it “wrong” for the food industry to contaminated food? Yes. If you want to talk about ways you can ensure they don’t, that could be a separate conversation I think. Included in that discussion might be penalties for unsafe practices or penalties for those who don’t maintain proper sanitation. I would be very surprised if we don’t already have something like that, and a huge bureaucracy standing by to send form letters all over the place, and probably two overworked inspectors who can’t be everywhere at once.

***Why ***we are having all these E.coli outbreaks is deeper than sanitation and inspection. The big companies are feeding cows corn, which greatly increases their production of the deadly bacteria. Pre-WWII cows were not fed corn (they were fed their natural diet). The industry model has changed, and this has a big impact on the outbreaks and the loss of human life.

 

[TOP]

***Why ***we are having all these E.coli outbreaks is deeper than sanitation and inspection. The big companies are feeding cows corn, which greatly increases their production of the deadly bacteria. Pre-WWII cows were not fed corn (they were fed their natural diet). The industry model has changed, and this has a big impact on the outbreaks and the loss of human life.

What big companies are feeding cows corn?

 

[Marfran]

I’m not sure, because as the poster points out, there is plenty of accusation, but not a single line of discussion about what to do about it.

That’s what the thread is for. What should we do about it? Nothing? What’s a few children dying? Put warning labels on hamburger? Only let your children eat beef/hamburger if you’re the one who cooked it? Stop buying the fast food burgers because you just don’t know if it’s been cooked properly???

What is the answer?

The video can be found at CNN.com. It’s called Is Meat Safe?

 

[DOShea]

***Why ***we are having all these E.coli outbreaks is deeper than sanitation and inspection. The big companies are feeding cows corn, which greatly increases their production of the deadly bacteria. Pre-WWII cows were not fed corn (they were fed their natural diet). The industry model has changed, and this has a big impact on the outbreaks and the loss of human life.

I disagree with you. Cows have been fed corn for a long, long time before market. As I pointed out above, there is a major taste difference in the produced beef. Don’t take my word for it, get on the phone and call up a couple processing companies and tell them you have 50 head for sale and they’ve only been wild grass fed, not finished because you don’t want to feed them any corn. Then come back here and post the names of the ones willing to even make you an offer. That will make me a believer as well as save me several hundred dollars next year.

 

[Marfran]

What big companies are feeding cows corn?

This is common in the US. ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/beef/as1238w.htm

 

[Marfran]

I disagree with you. Cows have been fed corn for a long, long time before market. As I pointed out above, there is a major taste difference in the produced beef. Don’t take my word for it, get on the phone and call up a couple processing companies and tell them you have 50 head for sale and they’ve only been wild grass fed, not finished because you don’t want to feed them any corn. Then come back here and post the names of the ones willing to even make you an offer. That will make me a believer as well as save me several hundred dollars next year.

What are you disagreeing with? Cows ***have been ***fed corn post WWII. Another poster is saying no they’re not… It adds more fat to the meat, gets them fatter quicker, to slaughter quicker, and also ads more bacteria to their gut… This thread is not about TASTE… it is about children dying because of hamburgers.

What do you see as a ***solution ***for that? Do you too, believe all the onus/responsibility is on the cook???

 

[bigfootbob]

I disagree with you. Cows have been fed corn for a long, long time before market. As I pointed out above, there is a major taste difference in the produced beef. Don’t take my word for it, get on the phone and call up a couple processing companies and tell them you have 50 head for sale and they’ve only been wild grass fed, not finished because you don’t want to feed them any corn. Then come back here and post the names of the ones willing to even make you an offer. That will make me a believer as well as save me several hundred dollars next year.

True, I may be wrong (and I’m no cattle expert), but now they eat just corn. Corn is good for them -in moderation. They need need other food too to be healthy.

 

[bigfootbob]

No, the bottom line is that should anyone’s child have to die??? Do you understand why we are seeing an increase in these outbreaks? It’s not about the cooking. It’s about the manufacture, and the corn.

If the meat is cooked right we wouldn’t have this problem. agree? Yes, we shouldnt feed them that much corn, but there isn’t much we can easily do about that. we can, however easily cook meat correctly.

 

[JoeJetson]

From that, we morph to the death of the poor children, and how it is the fault of some large argribusiness that is - what? - out to make dollars while intentionally killing people? I’m not sure, because as the poster points out, there is plenty of accusation, but not a single line of discussion about what to do about it.

We have established that no matter the contamination level of the meat from this one specific strain, all danger can be removed by cooking it properly. But we don’t seem to want to place any responsibility there, we want to place it on someone who feeds corn to cows.

Now I don’t know how many of you actually HAVE cattle, but…

Sounds like a Cattlemen’s association meeting. Doesn’t anybody care about the safety of the product? The children that died are reduced to minor statistics. So you’re saying that corn is not a component in the increase of the outbreaks? Or you’re just hoping no one will notice? There’s a lot of literature out there about corn and cows. Both words start with the letter “c” but other than that they don’t go together so well.

 

[bigfootbob]

Sounds like a Cattlemen’s association meeting.

 

[JoeJetson]

If the meat is cooked right we wouldn’t have this problem. agree? Yes, we shouldnt feed them that much corn, but there isn’t much we can easily do about that. we can, however easily cook meat correctly.

There isn’t much we can do about it? Consumers should just let the big guns do whatever they want? Maybe if people stop buying the product they’ll get the picture. I’ve been noticing ads on TV for turkey burgers. Safer kind of meat, I think.

 

[bigfootbob]

There isn’t much we can do about it? Consumers should just let the big guns do whatever they want? Maybe if people stop buying the product they’ll get the picture. I’ve been noticing ads on TV for turkey burgers. Safer kind of meat, I think.

I don’t know about you, but I’m not going to waste time on it. I’d rather just buy healthy meat from area farmers. Turkey burger tastes pretty good, but I like beef better.

 

[DOShea]

What are you disagreeing with? Cows ***have been ***fed corn post WWII. Another poster is saying no they’re not… It adds more fat to the meat, gets them fatter quicker, to slaughter quicker, and also ads more bacteria to their gut… This thread is not about TASTE… it is about children dying because of hamburgers.

What do you see as a ***solution ***for that? Do you too, believe all the onus/responsibility is on the cook???

What I was disagreeing with is the notion that cattle were not fed corn prior to WWII. I know for fact they were, corn was very cheap then and it made good finishing feed. Corn is still used for finishing primarily to add the weight and correct marbling to the meat and also to improve the taste of it (which is what that marbling fat layer improves).

I realize this is not about TASTE, but there seems to be an issue with feeding corn at all to cattle, that there is something wrong with that, that feeding the corn is causing the problems. I do not agree with that, as I’ve told you I can trace three generations of feeding corn to cattle and there was never issues where corn was the factor of blame up until now. There is no one I know of feeding cattle straight corn. For one, corn is very expensive today because of the demand put on corn by the ethanol business in addition to all the existing food products. Another reason is you’d kill a cow by feeding it straight corn grain. They have to have roughage to digest it properly, so corn is only part of the ration. Calves are raised and weaned, ranged on grass primarily and may be fed other substances for proper roughage like sugarbeet tops, grains, etc. but corn is rarely used except for the last few weeks. Many yearsago, when corn was plentiful and cheap, it WAS used to supplement cow diets. Not so anymore. Too expensive.

In case you aren’t aware, cattle are sold by contract. In other words, a buyer wants 25 head that will result in a certain percentage of that carcass, when hung, to be graded A by the USDA. A finisher accepts that contract then buys cattle at the stage where they are at a certain minimum weight - and at that point they are not corn fed. The finisher, then, will put the cows on a rationed diet high in corn because the sugars in the corn convert readily to fat, giving the meat the proper marbling and the finished weight of the carcass the proper range of weight. IF they don’t get a certain percentage of that hung meat graded A as the contract calls for, they get docked. And they get docked if the carcass is too lean OR too fat. Feeding all corn would not allow that kind of tailored feed ration that produce the carcass grade that makes the feeder money.

When they hit the feedlots they feed a lot of ground hay with a corn and other grain sometimes, like oats and continually add whatever protein supplements and corn increasing the protein of the ration to give the desired carcass marbling so they can sell them as what ever grade they contracted for.

This has been done in some form or other for at least a hundred years or more, of course the portions in the ration of food have become more refined as science allows. Many years ago they didn’t chop up the entire corn plant itself and boil it; they do now because it helps and is cheap.

Do I have a solution? I’m not seeing a problem with feeding corn to cows, so I have no solution to that. Are there occasional problems with feed contamination due to lack of proper sanitation or ignorance? Sure there are, but how do you fix ignorance from ever coming back in the future? More inspections? Yeah, good idea, especially for the people who are the slackers, but that isn’t the whole industry as seems to be indicated in this topic.

Do I believe the onus is on the cook? Not to eliminate the contamination where it exists, no, but it is the cook that is the final line of defense. This isn’t rocket science, it means cooking meat to a minimum temperature and making sure there is no cross contamination of food products as mentioned earlier in the post.

As a consumer, I view having your food cooked properly as no different than taking your car in for service. If you drive away and it shakes, rattles and rolls, you drive it right back and make them fix it. With meat or other food products, you rely on others to do it properly or you do it yourself. IF you do it right, you won’t get sick no matter what any cow feeder does or doesn’t do. So I think the answer is a bit of both. Personal responsibility, not blaming everyone else for a problem you could handle alone. What I do not think is the solution is to run around screaming corn in cows is causing deaths.

 

[rtconstant]

Ok, they may be a better study but still doesn’t answer two questions I have, the higher cost for organic food and no standards as to what “organic” means.

The last statement you made, “Even without the benefits, though the food just tastes better.” is subjective and can not be proven.

Well prices are higher on organic food because it isn’t produced at the same volume. Part of what makes non-organic food not as good for you also increases its production, so its cheaper.

As to what constitutes “Organic” in the States its a certification controlled by the National Organic Program (NOP) which is a federal program. It covers the methods, materials used for cultivating and processing the food. So like little to no insecticides, hormones and no genetic tampering.

When I mentioned the taste wasn’t trying to convince you of anything, I was just saying it tastes good.

 

[rtconstant]

What I was disagreeing with is the notion that cattle were not fed corn prior to WWII. I know for fact they were, corn was very cheap then and it made good finishing feed. Corn is still used for finishing primarily to add the weight and correct marbling to the meat and also to improve the taste of it (which is what that marbling fat layer improves).

I realize this is not about TASTE, but there seems to be an issue with feeding corn at all to cattle, that there is something wrong with that, that feeding the corn is causing the problems. I do not agree with that, as I’ve told you I can trace three generations of feeding corn to cattle and there was never issues where corn was the factor of blame up until now. There is no one I know of feeding cattle straight corn. For one, corn is very expensive today because of the demand put on corn by the ethanol business in addition to all the existing food products. Another reason is you’d kill a cow by feeding it straight corn grain. They have to have roughage to digest it properly, so corn is only part of the ration. Calves are raised and weaned, ranged on grass primarily and may be fed other substances for proper roughage like sugarbeet tops, grains, etc. but corn is rarely used except for the last few weeks. Many yearsago, when corn was plentiful and cheap, it WAS used to supplement cow diets. Not so anymore. Too expensive.

In case you aren’t aware, cattle are sold by contract. In other words, a buyer wants 25 head that will result in a certain percentage of that carcass, when hung, to be graded A by the USDA. A finisher accepts that contract then buys cattle at the stage where they are at a certain minimum weight - and at that point they are not corn fed. The finisher, then, will put the cows on a rationed diet high in corn because the sugars in the corn convert readily to fat, giving the meat the proper marbling and the finished weight of the carcass the proper range of weight. IF they don’t get a certain percentage of that hung meat graded A as the contract calls for, they get docked. And they get docked if the carcass is too lean OR too fat. Feeding all corn would not allow that kind of tailored feed ration that produce the carcass grade that makes the feeder money.

When they hit the feedlots they feed a lot of ground hay with a corn and other grain sometimes, like oats and continually add whatever protein supplements and corn increasing the protein of the ration to give the desired carcass marbling so they can sell them as what ever grade they contracted for.

This has been done in some form or other for at least a hundred years or more, of course the portions in the ration of food have become more refined as science allows. Many years ago they didn’t chop up the entire corn plant itself and boil it; they do now because it helps and is cheap.

Do I have a solution? I’m not seeing a problem with feeding corn to cows, so I have no solution to that. Are there occasional problems with feed contamination due to lack of proper sanitation or ignorance? Sure there are, but how do you fix ignorance from ever coming back in the future? More inspections? Yeah, good idea, especially for the people who are the slackers, but that isn’t the whole industry as seems to be indicated in this topic.

Do I believe the onus is on the cook? Not to eliminate the contamination where it exists, no, but it is the cook that is the final line of defense. This isn’t rocket science, it means cooking meat to a minimum temperature and making sure there is no cross contamination of food products as mentioned earlier in the post.

As a consumer, I view having your food cooked properly as no different than taking your car in for service. If you drive away and it shakes, rattles and rolls, you drive it right back and make them fix it. With meat or other food products, you rely on others to do it properly or you do it yourself. IF you do it right, you won’t get sick no matter what any cow feeder does or doesn’t do. So I think the answer is a bit of both. Personal responsibility, not blaming everyone else for a problem you could handle alone. What I do not think is the solution is to run around screaming corn in cows is causing deaths.

Part of the problem now is the type of corn they’re fed. The corn that cows and people in the US eat now isn’t “natural” corn. Its genetically altered, so that there is almost no germ left, and it consists almost entirely of sugar. So while once upon a time when a cow ate corn it was eating a natural grain. Today, its basically eating sugar cubes. They get fat quickly with this sort of feeding, and they’re intestinal tact starts deteriorating, and infections become more likely.

 

[bigfootbob]

Do I believe the onus is on the cook? Not to eliminate the contamination where it exists, no, but it is the cook that is the final line of defense. This isn’t rocket science, it means cooking meat to a minimum temperature and making sure there is no cross contamination of food products as mentioned earlier in the post.

As a consumer, I view having your food cooked properly as no different than taking your car in for service. If you drive away and it shakes, rattles and rolls, you drive it right back and make them fix it. With meat or other food products, you rely on others to do it properly or you do it yourself. IF you do it right, you won’t get sick no matter what any cow feeder does or doesn’t do. So I think the answer is a bit of both. Personal responsibility, not blaming everyone else for a problem you could handle alone. What I do not think is the solution is to run around screaming corn in cows is causing deaths.

Like I say, I’m no cattle expert (and not a big animal rights person), but I have heard that they feed them too much corn, and that if they didn’t slaughter them when they do, that they would die anyways. Do you know anything about this? Otherwise, great points.

 

[4elise]

The twenty-nine minute video stopped loading after 4 minutes 17 seconds, so I couldn’t see all of it. But I would comment that the title of you post is very misleading; they didn’t get sick/die of hamburger, they got sick/died from contaminated hamburger. How is that any different than the people two years ago who died from eating the same contaminate (e-coli bacteria) on green onions at Taco Bell, or this year with baby spinach?

It’s not the food itself that is the villain, it’s the bacteria. The normal, recommended cooking process kills this bacteria, which is why you see those notices in restaurant menus about undercooked/raw foods. We should be looking at the cook, not the cow.

I’m sure that the parents wouldn’t find the title of the thread misleading - it was what they didn’t know that took the lives of their children - the contaminated hamburger.

Not wanting to take the discussion to far afield: I do want to weigh in on your comment about the green onions and baby spinach - they were able to trace the source of the E. coli & Salmonella-contaminats in both these cases, as well as other veggie contamination to CAFO’s

“America’s drinking water, rivers and lakes are at risk from giant, corporate-owned factory farms. These Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations (CAFOs) confine thousands of animals in one facility, and produce staggering amounts of animal waste in the process (500 million tons per year). Too often, this waste leaks into our rivers and streams, fouling our air, contaminating our drinking water and spreading disease. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, hog, chicken and cattle waste has polluted 35,000 miles of rivers in 22 states and contaminated groundwater in 17 states.”

 

[4elise]

Very interesting video. I’ve been meaning to cut back on beef consumption - especially ground beef - simply as part of my fitness goals but this adds another dimension to it.

For the sake of enviornmental concerns, which the Pope calls us to heed, as well as a personal regard for the ‘way we were created’ I’ve made it a personal goal to (humanely) hunt the vast majority (if not the entirety) of the meat I consume.

This eliminates the inhumane and unnatural ways the animals are sheltered, caged, fed, and medicated while they are raised from birth to be slaughtered and it also eliminates the environmental toll that factory farming has. I consider the meat to be healthier since the animals are feeding on natural foods, running and excersising, and not standing and wallowing in feces all day.

The only obstacle is that I do not currently hunt. I’m going to get a licsense and I may have a compound bow coming my way pretty soon.

Just my two cents. Maybe one.

I’ve come to the same conclusion you have about meat - but rather than learn to hunt, I’ve learned to cook beans, tofu, wheat gluten, etc… We’ve a group here on CAF for Catholic vegetarians and vegans - there are some in our group who are just exploring the possibility - if we can be of any help… let us know!

 

[4elise]

Because it is an end around to bring up animal rights and to push a vegan lifestyle.

sorry?

 

[4elise]

I also recommend the King Corn. Informative and presented in an entertaining fashion.

I’ve started buying organic foods from local farms and such. Tastes better and doesn’t have all of the junk in it, and actually has nutritional value. Its actually made a noticeable impact on my health. Its also nice to know I’m helping local family farms.

I love our local farmers market!