Meatless and confused

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love4mary

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Ok, I am a very confused convert here and need some help.

This past summer we had a visiting priest (High School Teacher) who said that as a general rule,the church still expects us to obstain from eating meat on ALL Fridays. Our new pastor has said that we can eat meat on any Friday EXCEPT Good Friday.

Two priests–same age generation–different answers. Which is right?:confused:
 
love4mary said:
Ok, I am a very confused convert here and need some help.

This past summer we had a visiting priest (High School Teacher) who said that as a general rule,the church still expects us to obstain from eating meat on ALL Fridays. Our new pastor has said that we can eat meat on any Friday EXCEPT Good Friday.

Two priests–same age generation–different answers. Which is right?:confused:
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The truth lies betwixt and between. If you’re American than the USCCB guidelines on fasting and abstinence should be your starting point (or the Bishops Conference of whatever country you reside in). Also consult your local diocese - though I don’t think any of them contradict what I’m about to say.

In the US all Fridays of Lent are absolutely positively meatless - for those between the ages of 14 (I think) and 65 who aren’t exempted due to illness or something.

For other Fridays of the year the ideal is again to abstain from meat, but you can choose some other act of penance, prayer or other good work. Which is a good thing for those of us who don’t find being meatless for a day a real penance anyways.
 
Don’t forget Ash Wednesday is a fast day and meatless as well as all Fridays in Lent (meatless) with Good Friday being the other fast day. It’s something of a joke here in that it is hardly a sacrifice for any of us given our abundant seafood and even more abundant tasty recipes. We observe the fast, of course, but we are encouraged by our bishop to do more - precisely because it’s not a sacrifice. I generally devote my lunch hour on Fridays to prayer and spiritual reading. The point is to turn your mind to God.
 
First of all, are you a resident of the U.S.A.? The rules in this regard differ somewhat in different areas. There is a “universal” rule which applies everywhere, but which may be overridden by a particular rule for a particular national conference.

The general rule is “Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.” (Canon 1251).

But this is not the rule in the U.S.A. where fasting is not generally required outside of Lent, but does apply on Fridays of Lent, Ash Wednesday, and Good Friday. The faithful in the U.S.A. are urged to practice some unspecified form of penance on other Fridays.
 
Here is the relevant Canon from the 1983 Code of Canon Law ( the current Code)
Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
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The NCCB (now the USCCB) approved the eating of meat on Friday provided a equivilent penance is substituted.

But yes, you must either refrain from eating meat on Friday or do something as penance that is as much of a physical deprivation.
 
brotherhrolf said:
Don’t forget Ash Wednesday is a fast day and meatless as well as all Fridays in Lent (meatless) with Good Friday being the other fast day. It’s something of a joke here in that it is hardly a sacrifice for any of us given our abundant seafood and even more abundant tasty recipes. We observe the fast, of course, but we are encouraged by our bishop to do more - precisely because it’s not a sacrifice. I generally devote my lunch hour on Fridays to prayer and spiritual reading. The point is to turn your mind to God.
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Ewps, I did forget to mention Ash Wednesday :o
 
Thus we conclude that the American bishops have exercised their competence, later acknowledged by canon 1253 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law, to “determine more precisely” the observance of abstinence by restricting the obligation to do it to a few days a year (Ash Wednesday, the non-solemnity Fridays of Lent, and Good Friday—the last being part of the Triduum rather than Lent) and by recommending the continued practice of abstinence and other penances on other Fridays.

In doing so, they did not completely eliminate the legal obligation to do penance on Fridays. They restricted the legal obligation to certain Fridays of the year and replaced it with an exhortation to penance on the remaining Fridays.

Source
 
love4mary said:
Ok, I am a very confused convert here and need some help.

This past summer we had a visiting priest (High School Teacher) who said that as a general rule,the church still expects us to obstain from eating meat on ALL Fridays. Our new pastor has said that we can eat meat on any Friday EXCEPT Good Friday.

Two priests–same age generation–different answers. Which is right?:confused:
Click to expand...
All Fridays in LENT are days of Abstinance (from meat). One is allowed to substitute some other penance for the other Fridays, In my case, I simply abstain ALL Fridays, so has not to worry about what is or is not an appropiate substitute penance.👍

Whilst fish and seafood are tasty, they generally lack the fats that make meat like beef, pork, lamb, chicken, etc. so delicious.

As a matter of private devotions, I also abstain on Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday.

Note: 8 December was a Solemnity, so no abstaining or fasting was required, 😃
 
This thread has some interesting commentary on your meatless question. One aspect presented according to our CAF apologist, is that the bishops did not make it obligatory to do an alternate penance if one eats meat on Fridays. You can read the posts and then decide for yourself, since there are two different points of view being offered to you.

This is from Akin’s article:
The bishops were so concerned to avoid the impression that they were gutting the practice of penance that if they were creating an alternative obligation then they could not have failed to underscore this point. It would have been the most crushing rejoinder to their potential critics if they had said something like, “Though we have terminated the obligation to abstain, the faithful are nevertheless bound to perform a penance of their choice on Fridays and thus the Catholic practice of Friday penance remains in place even though the form the penance takes is now left to the determination of the individual.” The fact that the bishops nowhere say this or anything like it strongly indicates that it was not the bishops’ intent to create an alternative obligation. Calling attention to the alternative obligation by frankly stating it would have utterly invalidated the criticism the bishops were most concerned to avoid.
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Kind regards,
 
In keeping with the ‘peace-rock on’ philosophy of the 60s (not that peace is not a wonderful thing) the bishops (God bless them) made a pastoral decision that people be strongly encouraged to substitute a penitential practice. This went well in line with the idea that people should be freely choosing to do good as opposed to having the appearance of being coerced into doing good.

Again there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the idea, especially for those who are relatively spiritually advanced.

Unfortunately, the altruists of the 60s have pretty much gone on to be the hedonists of the 70s, the power brokers of the 80s, the comfortably well to do of the 90s, and the ‘I’ll do it my way’ neo-Sinatras of the 00s. 😃 Raising their children equally unfortunately to be the skeptic, new-ager, radical eco-spouting material kids. 😃

(NB: This does not apply to every person or to every Catholic, of course)

Thankfully the fasting/abstinence rule **is ** a discipline (as many like to point out, as being ‘subject to change’).

IMO, it is time for it to be changed back to the universal norm. We Americans were not ready for the challenge, and I’m not personally blaming people–after all, considering the great showing America had put up as compared even to other excellent societies when it came to religious observances, one cannot really say the bishops did not have a strong indication that, if anybody could live up to the challenge of ‘doing good without force’ it would be Americans.

But we couldn’t. We didn’t. We made things worse because we are restless and disobedient. We didn’t realize perhaps just how restless and disobedient we were.

So a lot of us are now in the position of having been ‘forced’ into humility. Look at the chance we got–and look how we blew it. We are no better than any other group; we are probably worse than many. . .

But there is no need for despair. Just as with ex smokers (as an example), those who have quit are more zealous against the evils of smoking–so too on that happy day when we once again have the universal norm those who will become ex “our way to observe what we want, when we want, even if it’s nothing at all” will very likely become more zealous in promoting the good of fast and abstinence.
 
Tantum ergo:
In keeping with the ‘peace-rock on’ philosophy of the 60s (not that peace is not a wonderful thing) the bishops (God bless them) made a pastoral decision that people be strongly encouraged to substitute a penitential practice. This went well in line with the idea that people should be freely choosing to do good as opposed to having the appearance of being coerced into doing good.
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Worth considering, Tantum. “Encouraged” is a good choice in their wording.

I’m thinking about Our Lord’s admonition:

Mt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name … [and abstained on Fridays and did penance]? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Mt. 15:8 This people honoureth me with their lips: but their heart is far from me.

Keeping the letter of the law may not be pleasing to God if the heart is not in a chosen practice, and the intention is merely to escape the penalties of breaking the law. It seems to me the Bishops are attempting to encourage us to right motivation born out of love for the Savior’s sacrifice on our behalf. If that is missing, how worthy is abstinence?
 
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