Meatless

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jmr_1985

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Even though I’m not coming into the Church until Easter, I’ve been observing Friday penance and enjoying giving up something for the Lord. I’m more of a traditional person, so I’ve been observing Friday abstinence from meat on all Fridays. As I understand this, it is the international norm outside the US?

Couple of questions… This evening my future mother in law is making chili for dinner. So, I decided to skip lunch as my penance so I could eat the dinner. My MIL is Catholic. I don’t want to appear holier than thou refusing to eat her dinner. The problem is I feel guilty about this. It’s like I made a commitment on meatless Friday and broke it. How do those who do meatless Fridays handle such situations?

My other question is this: the couple of times I’ve screwed up and forgotten about the penance, I’ve done another penance. Is this the way to handle this? During lent, if you forget, would that be a sin?
 
Sorry for the title of this thread. iPad clicked submit before I was ready. 😃
 
I ate bacon today, intending to do a particular penance instead. Unfortunately, the opportunity for that penance evaporated and I have to think of something else. If I forget to do the penance by day’s end I will take this lapse in performing a penance to confession tomorrow as I consider it a venial sin to willingly disobey the bishops’ guidelines.

During Lent, we don’t have the option of another form of penance.

Everyone I know knows I am very serious about my faith. I’m pretty sure I could go to another Catholic’s home when they’re serving chili on Friday and abstain from the meat without seeming ‘holier than thou.’ I could eat the bread and salad and not make a big deal of it. I really don’t care what others think, anyway, and abstaining might be a way of providing a good example for others.
 
27 Dec is the Feast day of St John the Evangelist. I am sure a more informed CAF member will correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that eating meat is permitted on a feast day. Alas, I only just looked it up.
 
Avila123 said:
27 Dec is the Feast day of St John the Evangelist. I am sure a more informed CAF member will correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that eating meat is permitted on a feast day. Alas, I only just looked it up.
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The entire octave of Christmas is meant to be a time of rejoicing, not penitential. The LOTH prayers are for Solemnities on each day of the Octave, and it is required to pray the Gloria at daily mass for the eight days. Of course, one may opt to voluntarily do a penance, but it is certainly not mandatory in any way, nor is it in keeping with the rejoicing that should be ours during the celebration of Christmas. Many threads can be found at CA which confirm that, whereas a substitutionary penance is desirable and voluntary if one chooses to eat meat, it is never a mandate that binds under pain of sin.

It is true that when the Annunciation or Feast of St. Joseph falls on Friday during lent, all Catholics are dispensed from Friday abstinence.
 
Sirach2 said:
It is true that when the Annunciation or Feast of St. Joseph falls on Friday during lent, all Catholics are dispensed from Friday abstinence.
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That’s because both those days are Solemnities, not just feasts…

Canon 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
 
“Feast day” is a confusing but common term for those celebrations which, in the reformed General Roman Calendar of the Ordinary Form, have three ranks. From lowest to highest, they are memorial, feast, and solemnity. As as been noted above, only a solemnity supersedes the practice of abstinence. Feasts and memorials do not. It is also important to check your local calendar. Countries, particular Churches (dioceses), religious institutes (orders and societies etc.) and even parishes have additions to the calendar. For example, the commemoration of a parish’s patron saint is a solemnity in that parish. St. Patrick, the patron of Ireland, makes March 17 a solemnity in Ireland, while it is a memorial elsewhere.

It is useful to check the Ordo, which is a liturgical book kept in all sacristies. My parish’s ordo is published for the ecclesiastical province which comprises several dioceses. If you cannot understand the Ordo then you can ask your priest, deacon, or sacristan for help.

I also abstain from meat on all Fridays, and my family is quite vegetarian, but I requested to eat meat yesterday because of the Octave of Christmas.
 
Mary_Ellen said:
That’s because both those days are Solemnities, not just feasts…

Canon 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
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Yup. I recall that St. Teresa of Avila said " when there’s fasting let there be fasting, but when there’s feasting, let there be feasting." I like her style!👍
 
I usually try to avoid placing myself in situations where I will be served meat on Fridays. This takes care of ninety-five percent of all possible situations. For those handful of times, I simply don’t eat the meat. Most people who know me realize that it is my practice, whether they are Catholic or not, and it is not a problem. If they are not understanding, I cannot concern myself once I have assured them that their kindness is appreciated.

I do not believe in switching penances at the last minute, because I don’t believe that this is truly penitential, but merely convenient. The way I see it, if we trade off things like that, we are more concerned with our own ease and comfort, including avoiding embarrassment. Sticking with something all the way through is a better way to go.
 
I just avoid meat to be on the safe side, unless Christmas Day falls on a Friday. The alternative is constant worry about whether I could have, or should have eaten meat on a particular Friday. It saves so much fretting and worrying.
 
I also follow the old rules regarding Friday Fasting. Sometimes many modern Catholics consider me “out of step” with the church. I must admit that there are times when I am sort of cornered into a social situation where I have to rely on the rules for the “norm” here in the USA. So I do my best to do another penance in place of the no-meat meals.

Its even getting tough to find an eating place where they give consideration to Catholics, telling me “oh, Catholics don’t do that anymore”. Especially tough during Lent, when I Fast everyday except Sunday.
 
jmr_1985 said:
Even though I’m not coming into the Church until Easter, I’ve been observing Friday penance and enjoying giving up something for the Lord. I’m more of a traditional person, so I’ve been observing Friday abstinence from meat on all Fridays. As I understand this, it is the international norm outside the US?

Couple of questions… This evening my future mother in law is making chili for dinner. So, I decided to skip lunch as my penance so I could eat the dinner. My MIL is Catholic. I don’t want to appear holier than thou refusing to eat her dinner. The problem is I feel guilty about this. It’s like I made a commitment on meatless Friday and broke it. How do those who do meatless Fridays handle such situations?

My other question is this: the couple of times I’ve screwed up and forgotten about the penance, I’ve done another penance. Is this the way to handle this? During lent, if you forget, would that be a sin?
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I personally would partake in dinner and observe some other fast.
Do not feel guilty. You are not guilty of anything. Your fasting is not for the sake of fasting, it is done to bring you closer to God. You are enjoying a dinner made by your mother in law and I would think God would be pleased with your full participation in this meal. It you were breaking a mandatory Lenten fast, you would have a different situation.
 
Sirach2 said:
The entire octave of Christmas is meant to be a time of rejoicing, not penitential. The LOTH prayers are for Solemnities on each day of the Octave, and it is required to pray the Gloria at daily mass for the eight days.
Click to expand...
While there is some increased small-s solemnity to the celebrations, the days of the Christmas Octave do not, as a rule, rank as Capital-S Solemnities. This past Friday was explicitly the Feast of St John, and not a Solemnity excepted by the canon.

tee
Armchair Liturgical Calendar Nerd 🤓
 
tee_eff_em said:
While there is some increased small-s solemnity to the celebrations, the days of the Christmas Octave do not, as a rule, rank as Capital-S Solemnities. This past Friday was explicitly the Feast of St John, and not a Solemnity excepted by the canon.
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I understand, since I pray the LOTH as part of the Carmelite Rule. It was designated “Feast.” However, my meaning in sharing that was to downplay the posts that insist we do penance during a season of rejoicing. It does not seem appropriate. But to each, their own. Just as long as these persons do not inflict their personal opinion as Church teaching and insist we all do penance as an obligation.
 
Sirach2 said:
I understand, since I pray the LOTH as part of the Carmelite Rule. It was designated “Feast.” However, my meaning in sharing that was to downplay the posts that insist we do penance during a season of rejoicing. It does not seem appropriate. But to each, their own. Just as long as these persons do not inflict their personal opinion as Church teaching and insist we all do penance as an obligation.
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I insist only that the canon speaks of excepting *solemnity[ies], *and not season of rejoicing.

:twocents:
tee
 
tee_eff_em said:
I insist only that the canon speaks of excepting *solemnity[ies], *and not season of rejoicing.

:twocents:
tee
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I understand, as I said. We used Advent, as we do Lent, to prepare for these two great feasts. After they are here, do we still do penance? Or do we rejoice with those who rejoice? You choose.
 
I am convinced that one reason for the serious trouble in the liturgy is the mentality that worries far, far more about whether one must abstain from meat on 27 December than about what exactly 27 December is in the liturgical calendar.

It’s the same mentality that obsesses over what time a Saturday vigil Mass can start to “count” for the Sunday obligation.
 
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