"Mediatrix?"

[BListon]

Do any other Catholics here have any problems with people calling Mary Mediatrix, doesnt that sound WAAY too much like the word Mediator, which Timothy tells us that Christ Jesus is our ONLY mediator, I don’t mind calling her an intersessor, or even co-redemptrix, but not mediatrix.

 

[stewstew03]

Do any other Catholics here have any problems with people calling Mary Mediatrix, doesnt that sound WAAY too much like the word Mediator, which Timothy tells us that Christ Jesus is our ONLY mediator, I don’t mind calling her an intersessor, or even co-redemptrix, but not mediatrix.

Are you having a problem with the word itself, or the meaning of the word? There is no difference in denotation between a mediator and an intercessor.

 

[DJK100]

Do any other Catholics here have any problems with people calling Mary Mediatrix, doesnt that sound WAAY too much like the word Mediator, which Timothy tells us that Christ Jesus is our ONLY mediator, I don’t mind calling her an intersessor, or even co-redemptrix, but not mediatrix.

I have a problem with the word simply because it creates way too much misunderstanding in people who don’t understand the faith very well. I don’t have a problem with Mary’s role in our salvation and as an intercessor on our behalf.

 

[cjmclark]

Do any other Catholics here have any problems with people calling Mary Mediatrix, doesnt that sound WAAY too much like the word Mediator, which Timothy tells us that Christ Jesus is our ONLY mediator, I don’t mind calling her an intersessor, or even co-redemptrix, but not mediatrix.

Mary’s ability as Mediatrix comes directly from her association with Jesus. It is through Him that she mediates on our behalf, not “stealing” His glory, as it were, but rather reflecting and magnifying it.

EWTN discusses Mary as Mediatrix here.

It is also worth noting that you can find other such gems as “call no man your father on earth” and “you have one teacher.” (Matt 3:29) Interpreted literally, it sure seems that we shouldn’t be calling our dads and priests “Father,” and who knows what you would call the person leading the lesson in your math class. But there’s more to it than that…you need to dig deeper, rather than accept a literal ban on all such titles.

 

[stewstew03]

I have a problem with the word simply because it creates way too much misunderstanding in people who don’t understand the faith very well. I don’t have a problem with Mary’s role in our salvation and as an intercessor on our behalf.

DJK100, perhaps God is calling you to correct those misunderstandings (with a charitable spirit of course).

[BIBLEDRB]1 Peter 3:15[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 5:10[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[lauraabarlow]

Mary’s ability as Mediatrix comes directly from her association with Jesus. It is through Him that she mediates on our behalf, not “stealing” His glory, as it were, but rather reflecting and magnifying it.

EWTN discusses Mary as Mediatrix here.

It is also worth noting that you can find other such gems as “call no man your father on earth” and “you have one teacher.” (Matt 3:29) Interpreted literally, it sure seems that we shouldn’t be calling our dads and priests “Father,” and who knows what you would call the person leading the lesson in your math class. But there’s more to it than that…you need to dig deeper, rather than accept a literal ban on all such titles.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

It appears to me that Mary was created a certain way, as the Church teaches in that by a singular grace was created without original sin, and that certain way also continues after the birth of Jesus. This “certain way” isn’t passive but is an active modality, and is not something added but is inherent.

In bringing us the Grace of God that is Jesus, She also continues this role because that is who She was created by God to be. This is how I see this “Mediatrix of all Graces” moniker applied to Her, not only something She did but it being who She is and was created to be.

It doesn’t just come down to the semantics of the word “mediator” but it is the reality of what Jesus does and what Mary does in relation to the whole of salvation history and it is this reality that we must be in union with through grace, the Grace of God that comes from Jesus through Mary, now as it did in Bethlehem. Then we can understand better Her role as well as what “Mediatrix” actually means.

 

[iohanne]

Mediatrix isn’t that big of an issue especially considering that in a way, we’re all mediators of each other - we can all be an occasion of grace to another person through our intercession, our compassion, etc. Co-Redemptrix is actually much more deeply problematic and in my opinion, downright heretical.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Do any other Catholics here have any problems with people calling Mary Mediatrix, doesnt that sound WAAY too much like the word Mediator, which Timothy tells us that Christ Jesus is our ONLY mediator, I don’t mind calling her an intersessor, or even co-redemptrix, but not mediatrix.

It seems like if Grace is Christ’s life in us then Christ is the one mediating when we respond to His Graces by doing His work and His will. We are acting in His behalf and using the holiness in us for the charity and love He want us to have to each other. Mary had it big time according to St. Luke and the Angel.

mdcpensive1

 

[TimothyH]

The idea of mediator in the Bible is not comprehensible outside of the context of the covenant relationship between the nation of Israel and God.

Point blank… Moses was a mediator between God and man.

Now as all the people witnessed the thunder and lightning, the blast of the shofar and the mountain smoking, they became afraid and trembled. So they took up a position farther away and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, or we shall die.” Moses answered the people, “Do not be afraid, for God has come only to test you and put the fear of him upon you so you do not sin.” So the people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the dark cloud where God was. (Exodus 20:18-21)

The people did not want to hear from God directly so Moses went to speak to God on behalf of the people. Moses took God’s messages to the people brought the people’s answer back to God and so forth. Moses went back and forth between the people and God bringing God’s laws to the people and bringing the poeple’s answer back to God. Moses was mediator of a covenant between God and man.

The NAB puts the passage above under the heading “Moses Accepted as Mediator” and this is the context under which we must understand the title mediator in the Bible.

The covenant between Israel and God was not perfect. It was a preparation for the perfect covenant mediated by Jesus Christ.

For there is one God.
There is also one mediator between God and the human race,
Christ Jesus, himself human,
who gave himself as ransom for all.
(1 Timothy 2:5)

Moses was only a man, and so he could not be the perfect mediator of a perfect covenant between God and man. Moses could not perfect represent God’s plan to the Jews because Moses was himself only a man.

Jesus is a better mediator than Moses because Jesus is both God and man. Jesus is the perfect mediator between God and man because Jesus is both God and man.

Notice the passage above from 1 Timothy. It mentions “One God” and then “Himself human”. BAM! Right there is the hypostatic union, the fusion of God and man in Christ Jesus. Jesus is the perfect mediator of the perfect covenant because only he can perfectly respresent both God and man - only he is both God and man.

Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.(Hebrews 9:15)

This is the covenant theology of the mediator.

Every covenant in the Bible was sealed with an oath, a shared meal, and a sacrifice and the new covenant mediated by Christ Jesus is no different. We give an oath at baptism and renew it every Easter, we share the Eucharistic meal, and Jesus is the sacrifice. We also sacrifice ourselves in our good works.

This is what the term mediator means in the Bible, and it has little to nothing to do with Mary’s mediation of grace. Jesus mediates a covenant between God and man and by his sacrifice won the grace we all need for salvation, but Mary mediates the appliation of the benefits of that covenant - grace. Grace is distributed by Mary according to God’s will. Mary alone is Full of Grace. Mary alone distributes that grace.

It appears to me that Mary was created a certain way, as the Church teaches in that by a singular grace was created without original sin, and that certain way also continues after the birth of Jesus. This “certain way” isn’t passive but is an active modality, and is not something added but is inherent.

In bringing us the Grace of God that is Jesus, She also continues this role because that is who She was created by God to be. This is how I see this “Mediatrix of all Graces” moniker applied to Her, not only something She did but it being who She is and was created to be.

Earnest’s post is extremely important. Mary made Christ present in the world and that did not stop after she gave birth. It was who she was created to be, to make Christ - grace himself - present in the world. She did so actively 2000 years ago and does so today, in our lives.

Every drop of grace from every prayer comes to us, won by Jesus on the Cross, distributed to us through Mary. Every conversion of every sinner comes through Grace handed to that sinner by Mary. Every bit of sanctifying grace from every confession comes to us through Mary.

And Mary’s mediation of grace is not inconsistent with Christ’s singular mediation between God and man, as Moses the mediator clearly shows.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

Mediatrix isn’t that big of an issue especially considering that in a way, we’re all mediators of each other - we can all be an occasion of grace to another person through our intercession, our compassion, etc. Co-Redemptrix is actually much more deeply problematic and in my opinion, downright heretical.

We are all co-redeemers.

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church. (Colossians 1:24)

To the extent that we pray for others, do good works in the name of Jesus, and unite our suffering to the Passion of Jesus, we assist other member’s of Christ’s body in the ressurection to new life. Catholicism is not a Jesus-and-me religion. We are all in it together and my sins hurt the entire Body of Christ while your good works build up the entire Body of Christ.

Mary held God himself in her womb for nine months, nursed God at her breast, and loved God as only a mother could. When Jesus died on the cross, she grieved for his death as only a mother could. In suffering for Christ and with Christ, Mary builds up the Church on a level which is infinitely greater than you or I could ever do. We could never love God - Jesus Christ - the way Mary loved Jesus Christ.

If your good works are a drop in the bucket for building up Christ’s body, Mary’s good works in bearing and rearing God on earth are an ocean. If your suffering unites the Body of Christ to it’s head Jesus, then Mary’s suffering as the Mother of God is infinitely more.

-Tim-

 

[laylawguw]

Sorry,i don’t understood it. http://www.ckyo.info/jpg

 

[kepha1]

“Co” in co-redeemer, co-Mediatrix, etc. is Collaborator. Mary “assisted” in our redemption and she assists in our mediation with Christ.

This context does not give Mary equal status with Christ, or usurp Christ in anyway. She, rather, merely cooperated and collaborated with Christ.
In a sense we, too, are co-mediators every time we pray for someone. We are offering intercession/mediation for our friend when we pray for them. This does not make us God or equal with God, it only means that we are cooperating with the economy of God when he asked us to be a family and pray for each other.
In terms of Mary as co-redeemer, she did in fact, cooperate in the redemption. When she made her fiat to accept God’s will for her to bear the Christ Child she was cooperating in the redemption of mankind for it was through her that the Redeemer came into the world.
The solution to problems like this is not suppression but education. “co” just simply does NOT mean “equal to”.

At this time the theory of co-redeemer is not Church dogma, and is not binding for belief by the faithful. But the concept should not wrinkle our shirts if we understand the nature of her role in the incarnation and the true meaning of “co”.

 

[TimothyH]

Sorry,i don’t understood it. http://www.ckyo.info/jpg

Then don’t try to understand it. Just accept it. Like the man in Mark 9:24…

***Then the boy’s father cried out, “I do believe, help my unbelief!” ***

Make a concious descision to believe in spite of your inability to understand, and ask Jesus to help you with your unbelief. Then step out in trust - trust Jesus because he rose from the dead like he said he would. Trust Jesus, and like the boys father, you will be helped, and will understand, and will be happy.

Its a strict axiom in the Christian life. Faith comes first, then understanding comes. But it starts with you. You have to say “I believe” and then Jesus will help you.

If you don’t believe me then just try it, and then give it some time. You can always go back to not believing if it doesn’t work out.

-Tim-

 

[Chatter163]

Do any other Catholics here have any problems with people calling Mary Mediatrix, doesnt that sound WAAY too much like the word Mediator, which Timothy tells us that Christ Jesus is our ONLY mediator, I don’t mind calling her an intersessor, or even co-redemptrix, but not mediatrix.

No, what I have a problem with is people who claim to be Catholics trying to stir up dissent by asking if other Catholics “have problems” with certain Church teeachings, instead of saying something responsible like, “I really don’t completely understand Our Lady’s intercessory role, as her titles seem rather much to me. Could someone help me to understand?”

 

[stewstew03]

No, what I have a problem with is people who claim to be Catholics trying to stir up dissent by asking if other Catholics “have problems” with certain Church teeachings, instead of saying something responsible like, “I really don’t completely understand Our Lady’s intercessory role, as her titles seem rather much to me. Could someone help me to understand?”

And unfortunately these are the types of Catholics who are ripe for evangelization by our Protestant brethren… They don’t understand the Church’s teachings, and when someone offers what looks like a “better” explanation (or one that fits their world-view) they take the bait - hook, line, and sinker.

 

[PeterGStanley]

I have no problem with it.

Jesus first miracle was done at Mary"s request.

 

[BListon]

No, what I have a problem with is people who claim to be Catholics trying to stir up dissent by asking if other Catholics “have problems” with certain Church teeachings, instead of saying something responsible like, “I really don’t completely understand Our Lady’s intercessory role, as her titles seem rather much to me. Could someone help me to understand?”

Well, even St. Peter had his doubts, are you going to condemn him too?

 

[clmowry]

Do any other Catholics here have any problems with people calling Mary Mediatrix, doesnt that sound WAAY too much like the word Mediator, which Timothy tells us that Christ Jesus is our ONLY mediator, I don’t mind calling her an intersessor, or even co-redemptrix, but not mediatrix.

Yes and no.

Yes: It is unnecessarily confusing language about a subject that is of little importance except to those who want to beat the Catholic Church over the head with it.

No: What the concept is used to describe is theologically correct.

Chuck

 

[DJK100]

DJK100, perhaps God is calling you to correct those misunderstandings (with a charitable spirit of course).

Hi Stew,

I guess I made myself misunderstood. I have no problem and understand of Mary’s role in God’s plan and in our lives. I just don’t like the term Mediatrix because people who don’t have a firm grasp of those things use that title as a source of confusion and dissent. Just look at the OP first comment.

In times such as these when the Christendom is so divided I think it is more important to explain the truths rather than sticking to a word that, wether justly or unjustly, is inflammatory for some and immediately a turn off for others so thay they do not open their minds to the what the teachings actually are. After all it is the teachings that are most important and not how you label what the teachings are.

I think CLmomry, says it very succiently in the post directly above mine. The point he makes is exactly point I was trying to make.

EDIT: HI Stew, I reread you post to me and I think I intially mistook the tone of your post. I think you were saying to correct others misundertanding rather than my own. Rest assured I do that the best I can with any opportunity that presents itself.