Medication refills/Is this ethical?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Veronica97
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Flipping this one over: If you truly have no intention to deceive, what possible reason could one offer for NOT obtaining the new and accurate prescription? In other words, if not financial, what do you possibly stand to gain?

Your dose has changed, presumably by your cardiologist.
Do all your other doctors who write for your medications know of this?
Did you have any interactions that may require alterations?
When you get admitted to the hospital, are you sure your cardiologist will pick up to correct the dose on file and not lead to a misadventure?
When someone other than Veronica97 has to step in to care for the MIL, are they going to be aware of all these one-off changes, or will they read the instructions on the bottle?

🤷
 
Flipping this one over: If you truly have no intention to deceive, what possible reason could one offer for NOT obtaining the new and accurate prescription?
Because:
  1. I am not obligated by conscience to do so.
  2. This is not an issue the Church has commented on.
  3. Where there is no moral directive, Catholics are free to follow their conscience.
  4. I can say in good faith that I have spent my life trying to properly form my conscience.
Perhaps pharmacists have a different point of view due to their profession than consumers. Most fields have similar issues.
 
Because:
  1. I am not obligated by conscience to do so.
  2. This is not an issue the Church has commented on.
  3. Where there is no moral directive, Catholics are free to follow their conscience.
  4. I can say in good faith that I have spent my life trying to properly form my conscience.
Perhaps pharmacists have a different point of view due to their profession than consumers. Most fields have similar issues.
We can politely disagree on #2 based on our underlying differences in the fundamental premises, so again, do as as you will :tiphat: and sincerely best wishes to you with it. 🙂 Happy Friday.
 
Perhaps pharmacists have a different point of view due to their profession than consumers. Most fields have similar issues.
I doubt they do. But I agree on everything else you say here.

I once experienced going to the pharmacy for a medication which is in my case not covered through insurance/welfare (antacids - I don’t meet the rather strict criteria to get them covered, but they still improve my asthma because I have mild reflux, causing acids to enter my respiratory system), and I was rather perplexed when the pharmacist gave them to me for free (I was past my copay limit). I asked why, and she said the doctor had used the refund codes indicating I meet the requirements, so there was nothing to pay.

Still perplexed, I (and yes, I am at times stupidly honest) told her my doctor must have made a mistake, since I don’t meet those requirements. I asked if I should ask my doctor to rewrite the script correctly so I don’t get anything covered that I shouldn’t.

Now it was her turn to be perplexed 🙂 . She said to hold on to the script, it’s valid for a year, and no one will arrest neither me nor the doctor.

Knowing the GP I had at the time, he may well have checked the wrong boxes on purpose, to save me money. Unless he did that kind of thing a lot, it would never be looked into by the health authorities. He may however just as well have not paid attention while filling out the form - it wouldn’t be the first time he mixed up something on my scripts.

In either case, it was his responsibility to make it correct, and not mine. The fact that I know coverage rules better than the average citizen, does not suddenly make me responsible, neither legally nor morally.

The same goes for pharmacists, at least here - if they have a doctor’s script, it’s not their responsibility if the doctor made a mistake. They’re not a control organ, they fulfill their responsibility by following the instructions on the script.
 
Knowing the GP I had at the time, he may well have checked the wrong boxes on purpose, to save me money. Unless he did that kind of thing a lot, it would never be looked into by the health authorities. He may however just as well have not paid attention while filling out the form - it wouldn’t be the first time he mixed up something on my scripts.

In either case, it was his responsibility to make it correct, and not mine. The fact that I know coverage rules better than the average citizen, does not suddenly make me responsible, neither legally nor morally.
Knowing right and not doing it doesn’t make you responsible?
We definitely don’t have to agree on this. 🙂
The same goes for pharmacists, at least here - if they have a doctor’s script, it’s not their responsibility if the doctor made a mistake. They’re not a control organ, they fulfill their responsibility by following the instructions on the script.
That is not true at all. :nope: It is actually absurd.
And then people get all bent out of shape when medication errors occur. “You should have known!!!” I could not even begin to count the number of mistakes I’ve corrected.
 
Knowing right and not doing it doesn’t make you responsible?
We definitely don’t have to agree on this. 🙂
No, it is definitely not my legal responsibility to correct my doctor if he makes an insignificant mistake with the refund codes. I also don’t think it’s my moral responsibility; this would be different if the law required the patient to make sure scripts are correctly coded with regards to refunds, but then that would be absurd given the complexity of the system.
That is not true at all. :nope: It is actually absurd.
And then people get all bent out of shape when medication errors occur. “You should have known!!!” I could not even begin to count the number of mistakes I’ve corrected.
Manipulative quoting.

I said specifically that pharmacists do have a responsibility to check for interactions if the patient presents more than one prescription at once. This goes for other errors in medication too - if the dosage prescribed is dangerous, they are of course obliged to intervene.

But at least in this jurisdiction, they are not responsible to police the doctor on the matter of refund/coverage, unless the specific medication requires special dispensation from the health authorities, in which case this dispensation must be presented by the patient to fulfill the prescription. In those cases, the prescription will simply not be fulfilled if the patient can’t present the required paperwork. In the cases where such dispensation is not required, but the doctor still has to make sure certain conditions are met to write a script with coverage, the pharmacist is in no way obliged to check if the doctor has done this correctly. Pharmacies don’t even have the means to do so, as they don’t have access to journals!
 
Knowing right and not doing it doesn’t make you responsible?
We definitely don’t have to agree on this.
Agree on what? You misquoted him. He said, “knowing the rules” and you said “knowing right”. This is a classic example of begging the question.
 
Agree on what? You misquoted him. He said, “knowing the rules” and you said “knowing right”. This is a classic example of begging the question.
Really? :confused: Is it? With the exception of immoral rules, when is it not right to follow them? :confused: When someone else screws up (intentionally or accidental) in a way that benefits me but cheats the system even immaterially, I personally cannot live with that. If the conscience that you have spent your life trying to properly form allows you to do so, well… 🤷 …go for it if you must.

Likewise, Rin, do what you feel is right.
I don’t think your situation is perfectly analogous to Veronica97s, and it sounds as though you had an itch of conscience yourself to change things. I don’t think you were “stupidly honest” because I don’t think such a thing exists.

Likewise, I suspect you are NOT in the US (by description of your system and timestamp of posting, and I’m guessing NHS?). I agree, the pharmacist isn’t the “control organ” for checking your benefit. However, the computer system adjudicates it to the PBM (or whatever) and that, in fact, is the “control organ.” If you intentionally deceive that, or obfiscate what you’re actually doing to your benefit, you may well beat the system. It sounds like your doctor, seeing you on welfare (or knowing it, as apparently that is your “control organ?”), was trying to help you out. 🤷 That happens all the time. Right? Moral? Not IMHO, but again, I’m not going to spend any time sniffing this out. Sounds like you knew it yourself. 🙂

PS, how do you misquote someone by copying it verbatim? :confused:
 
Really? :confused: Is it? With the exception of immoral rules, when is it not right to follow them?
One need not follow any rules one does not agree to. The exception for disobeying something immoral, and the obligation to follow them, apply to laws, that is, civil authority.
PS, how do you misquote someone by copying it verbatim? :confused:
Fortunately both posts remain. Most can read enough to understand the different spelling between “rules” and “right”.
 
I know that many doctors will write for a different size pill and have patients split them and things like that because on many occasions it allows the patient to be able to afford his or her meds and take them as needed. Often, many elderly and caregivers will start skipping days if they are concerned about cost. To avoid this dangerous skipping of meds, that can result in hospitalizations or death, the doctor will write the rx in such a way as to make it as likely as possible that the patient will take the meds as prescribed,
 
Really? :confused: Is it? With the exception of immoral rules, when is it not right to follow them? :confused: When someone else screws up (intentionally or accidental) in a way that benefits me but cheats the system even immaterially, I personally cannot live with that. If the conscience that you have spent your life trying to properly form allows you to do so, well… 🤷 …go for it if you must.
The point is that unless the law states otherwise (which I doubt it does, even in the US), it is not the patient’s responsibility to police their doctor. Therefore, the patient does not break the law by not doing anything. So there is no legal obligation to intervene. Since the laws or rules in question are morally neutral, there would neither be a moral obligation.
Likewise, Rin, do what you feel is right.
I don’t think your situation is perfectly analogous to Veronica97s, and it sounds as though you had an itch of conscience yourself to change things.
I’d say the itch was more from my autistic need for correctness than from conscience 😛

Said need sometimes coincides by what could properly be called conscience, though (correcting a store clerk if they give me too much change), but may just as well just be morally neutral and, to be honest, annoying (calling my accountant cousin because I found a quarter dollar imbalance in my bookkeeping).
I don’t think you were “stupidly honest” because I don’t think such a thing exists.
I do sort of agree with that - but from the pharmacist’s point of view, I was.
Likewise, I suspect you are NOT in the US (by description of your system and timestamp of posting, and I’m guessing NHS?).
Norway, but close enough. The system is similar to NHS, but, to be honest, not as good. They have more choices and better coverage (as in what is covered - dentistry, for example, isn’t covered after you turn 18 here). Basically our hospitals are mainly (with the exception of some specialized clinics) owned and funded by the government, while GPs, many specialists and pharmacies are generally private, and they interact with welfare as they would with an insurer in other countries. Except there’s only one insurance, so the systems are a bit more integrated.
I agree, the pharmacist isn’t the “control organ” for checking your benefit. However, the computer system adjudicates it to the PBM (or whatever) and that, in fact, is the “control organ.”
No idea what a PBM is, to be honest. But generally, if special dispensation is needed, the systems will check for such dispensation, and if the patient can’t present one (they used to be on paper, but they could be digitalized now - I’m not sure), the pharmacist can’t give the medication for free.

However, in cases like this, no dispensation is needed, only very specific diagnostic criteria. The doctor is responsible to fill out the refund codes correctly, and if he or she doesn’t, the electronic system won’t know. There is however a control organ which regularly visits doctors to manually check whether they follow such requirements. If there are too many “mistakes”, they’ll get a warning.
If you intentionally deceive that, or obfiscate what you’re actually doing to your benefit, you may well beat the system. It sounds like your doctor, seeing you on welfare (or knowing it, as apparently that is your “control organ?”), was trying to help you out. 🤷 That happens all the time. Right? Moral? Not IMHO, but again, I’m not going to spend any time sniffing this out. Sounds like you knew it yourself. 🙂
To be honest, my previous doctor was pretty scatterbrained, so he may well have dozed off while he issued that prescription. He is a good doctor, but I corrected his prescriptions more than once. So I’m not sure it was intentional. This happened after prescriptions turned digital, which was, to be honest, quite annoying, since mistakes then didn’t show until I went to the pharmacy. Imagine the frustration upon realizing I had been prescribed a toddler dosage of asthma meds.

But I agree that doctors beating the system to help patients is gray-area at best. However, the laws are as I said morally neutral (the immoral thing is to break them, not the action in itself, and in this case the sin would be venial at worst), and unless the patient is required by law to police their doctor (which would be absurd), the patient does not break the law if they simply fill the prescript. There would be no sin.

As for what I know and don’t know, see above 🙂
PS, how do you misquote someone by copying it verbatim? :confused:
She clearly explained where you misquoted me - not in what you copied, but you went from “rules” (in the direct quote) to “right” in your own statement. That is begging the question, and also as far as I can see a straw man - I never said that “knowing right and not doing it doesn’t make me responsible”. This is what she pointed out.
 
So now after all this, I have realized that I have an eye drop prescription that was lasting me much longer than it should have, and I have begun using it as directed. Also, my husband has a prescription that is written for a whole pill, but he only takes a half pill (it’s not for a life-threatening condition). In the future I will see that this is corrected; however, in the meantime should my husband finish the pills or is this stealing and should I get another prescription right away? We didn’t ask for the prescription to be written like that, and I think I may have even told the doctor’s office he’s only taking half a pill, but they re-prescribed it that way for whatever reason.
 
So now after all this, I have realized that I have an eye drop prescription that was lasting me much longer than it should have, and I have begun using it as directed. Also, my husband has a prescription that is written for a whole pill, but he only takes a half pill (it’s not for a life-threatening condition). In the future I will see that this is corrected; however, in the meantime should my husband finish the pills or is this stealing and should I get another prescription right away? We didn’t ask for the prescription to be written like that, and I think I may have even told the doctor’s office he’s only taking half a pill, but they re-prescribed it that way for whatever reason.
I’d bet the contents of my wallet that they (physician) did it to save you money. 🙂 My $0.02 as before: Please take it correctly, finish what you have, but try to get it straightened out.

Rin - As before, do what you feel you need to do. 🙂
 
No, drs change the directions often and sometimes even write the script in a way that the patient is given more medication so that it is more affordable to the patient. Follow the drs recommended dosage and it is fine. I am a pharmacy tech (but currently a housewife–only work when absolutely necessary). We see this happen all the time.
You are so right bitterhope My doctor when he writes my script for my insulin writes it for a bit more so i won’t run out and he accepts my insurance as full payment even though it only covers 80%.
 
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