Medieval Usages

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That is neither an honest nor charitable response. I suggest you address the bishop as “Bishop.”
 
Those are all acknowledgements of possessing a certain level of rank. We still have it in the judicial system-- judges are Your Honor. It doesn’t necessarily mean the judge is a great person, or even a fair person, or even an honorable person-- but it recognizes the judge’s authority.

Likewise, within ecclesiastical circles, ranks and titles are an acknowledgement of the exaltedness of the position, not of the merits of the individual.
 
It was sarcastic and dry humor…

It’s hard to recognize that though because of the medium of communication we’re using.
 
Sirach 10:20,24

"Among relatives their leader is honored;
but whoever fears God is honored among God’s people.

The prince, the ruler, the judge are in honor;
but none is greater than the one who fears God."

I know the Bible is packed with instances of people calling people “my lord” and using other titles, and I’m searching around it right now trying to find things that talk about titles and things like that…

That Sirach passage is somewhat relevant to this discussion.
 
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Xpi22 said:
How can Catholics justify the continued use of Medieval forms of address like … holy father … given the humility of the Lord and His direction to His disciples?
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St Augustine of Hippo writing to the bishop of Rome in 423 addressed his letter, Letter 209, as follows:
To Cælestine , My Lord Most Blessed, and Holy Father Venerated with All Due Affection, Augustine Sends Greeting in The Lord. (source)

So, I think it is wrong to call the clerical title, “holy father,” Medieval. If you take the title, Monsignor, to mean “my lord,” then neither is the clerical title, Monsignor, Medieval.

Similarly, a letter from St Jerome to St Augustine written in 404 addressed Augustine as “My Lord Truly Holy, and Most Blessed Father,” and in the body of the letter refers to him “your Excellency.” (source)

A letter from a Marcellinus to St Augustine, written in 412, namely, Letter 136, addressed him as, “My Lord Most Venerable, and Father Singularly Worthy of All Possible Service from Me,” and in the body of the letter refers to Augustine as “your Holiness” and “your Eminence.” (source)
 
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My point, brother, is that the forms we use are, in fact forms used in secular society, except the ones we use for the Bishop of Rome. You know history, I am certain. The hierarchical structure as to class and importance, Jesus turned on its head when He said: “It must not be among you as among the pagans…” You know that these titles are mostly arrogated to selves and not as any sign of Christ working in these men…that was not ever the intention, but rather the exaltation of individuals lording it over others. Not that there were not holy bishops, but all too many scoundrels.
 
A previous poster also made the distinction that these titles are applied to the office and not the individual.

“Your Excellency” for example does not mean the person is excellent or exalted, it means the office of Bishop is excellent and exalted. You could have a scoundrel of a man in office and still call him “Mr. President” out of respect for his high office, even if you despise the man.
 
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Xpi22 said:
Our Lord’s words to His Apostles about being the least.
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Now that you mention it, Simon was named Peter, or Rock, the foundation of the Church, and the foundation is the lowest part of the structure.
 
Granted, it’s probably one of the kinder remarks people would make nowadays in light of the current “issues “.
 
I promise you that any member of the clergy of whatever rank who has humility problems doesn’t have them because of his title. It starts a loooong way off from that. It’s not as though a perfectly innocent and humble man was made a Monsignor or a Bishop and all of a sudden, overnight, became evil incarnate. If there are problems of grasping for power and overmuch pride, the title is not the start of the problem, it is one of its results.

-Fr ACEGC
 
How do people address you? Mr, Mrs, Ms Miss, Are you a Dr, married, single student, do you have accolades, letters behind your name.
 
When Jesus addresses a God as father , Jesus says ABBA or my Father.

When we pray the Lord’s Prayer we say Our Father. God the Father has 1 son, Jesus. Our as a word means all those who accept Jesus and come into brotherhood with Him.
 
’ Father, it wasn’t entirely clear why I posed the original question, but the thread made it more clear. In asking the why of these honorific titles, I was asking to find a rationale to explain why we use these titles. Your response dealt with the pride or lack of pride on the part of those upon whom such title are conferred. I want to know how we can use these titles given Our Lord’s example and words commanding humility on the part of His apostles and disciples. What would I say, giving NT Scripture to justify these honorifics? Personally, I believe such titles are a mask that cover over a multitude of sin and vanity and are not needed to uphold the
Church of God. So also, I believe that the various trappings of dress are likewise masks to prop up the
Institutional human aspects of the church, often signs of a lack of faith in God’s Providence, and a substitute for genuine holiness. As an example, once television became universal, the popes abandoned the sedelia, the triple crown, the large feather fans, and St. Paul VI shortened the trains of cardinals from 24 feet down to 6 and now they are virtually gone! The whole idea of emulating the world has brought the church (hierarchs and
lay) into friendship with the world, which Scripture says is enmity to God and fornication against God. This is not to say that there ought not to be distinguishing dress. There should be among all Christians, modest and simple attire. Should we go as far as the Amish? I don’t think so. Should we adopt the immodest fashions of the world? No, yet people dressed immodestly approach the Altar and receive the Sacrament without any compunction. Priests give the Sacrament without prior instruction of the faithful. Offending people is just not PC, avoiding the harsh words even to the extent of suppressing the truth rather than preaching the truth. The Catholic Church, to avoid becoming the McDonald’s of the religious world needs to preach the Gospel in its fullness, for only the Elect will hear, the reprobate will complain and leave or stay and demonstrate. After all, as Paul teaches (1Cor11:19) for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized… A smaller church is inevitable. We need to face that. Benedict XVI spoke of it.
 
Not sure what point you were making. I don’t challenge the use of father. 🙂
 
People generally call me Ray or PopPop. I have degrees but don’t append them to my name. I eschew Mr. Just Ray is fine. 🙂
 
I address a priest as Father, I address a deacon as deacon, a bishop as bishop. I have not met the Pope, but I commonly refer to him as Holy Father or formally as the Bishop of Rome, Successor to the Apostle Peter.
 
You put Holy Father as one of the problematic titles.
 
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