Meditation problems

[Meggie]

I’ve done what is called “body prayer” or other types of “meditation”(using the word loosely) for most of my life.

For those who don’t know, what body prayer is is based on a monasitc prayer. When I was a young kid I heard about it and used it to fall asleep. What it is is controlled breatheing by meatred song, such as gregorian chant or syphony music. During this time you start in your extremities, such as your fingers or toes.

Using this monks can reach the state of Theda brain waves, similar to someone who takes LSD, except for not as shocking to the brain, and more metered. There are three states of consious brain waves Alpha (awake, alert) Beta (dreaming) Theda(subconsious/dreaming) the unconsious (comotose) is delta.

I’ve done this with a guide a few times at retreats. And occasionaly, in a matter of minutes was dreaming a bit.

However this time I had a rather bad experiance, I must of reached a subconsious thought, and I panicked with alot of wierd things happening such as shortness of breath and fast heartbeat/shaking. I don’t think a regular doctor would take me seriously, so I’m looking for others who meditate, or know more than the bits and pieces I know to help me.

I’m even afraid of my normal meditiation right now, afraid to get into deeper meditation state.

Who do I ask or turn to…the person who guided us on our retreat had never heard of a bad reaction.

 

[Joysong]

This sounds very much like eastern mysticism to me, which is not “theistic” but agnostic, meaning no focus upon God, but an emptying of the mind. When this happens, it is little wonder that other invaders from the spirit world can tap into your subconscious.

I’m glad you posted this, because there are a couple of threads on centering prayer, and it may serve as a warning to what can happen if one is not using meditation as taught by our saints. I don’t know what monastery gave this to you, but it is dangerous to continue in this manner, as you already know.

Just yesterday, I listened to some teachings that Urban-Hermit posted in another thread. Father Dubay did a very good job explaining the difference between authentic meditation and eastern contemplation. It was in talk #10 of the second link in this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1535137

I’m sorry you have fear now, for true meditation/contemplation is a very good and holy practice. Take a break, and maybe come back to it soon with proper instruction.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’m glad you posted this, because there are a couple of threads on centering prayer,

Except centering prayer has nothing to do with this. Centering prayer is not emptying of the mind.

 

[Joysong]

Jim,

I get the feeling I’m being shadowed with regard to centering prayer comments that I make. There are several concepts floating around out there, as you well know, and there truly needs to be instruction and caution. It seems this dear person got the wrong kind of instruction. To dismiss it and suggest that CP is ok, is not what she needs to hear at this time, do you agree?

I don’t have any problem at all with the true position of centering prayer, and if you do a search on my profile, you may come across old posts where I spoke positively about it. The problem is one of readiness, sound instruction, and correct theistic focus. Deep down, I think we are on the same page, yes?

 

[Meggie]

this IS’T centering prayer. Nothing is ever repeated except for maybe “breathe in/out” I had know it as simply calming down. Around age seven or eight I read about it as a system they use for people who are in severe, chronic pain. I leaned it by emptying myself through holes in the bottom of my feet.

Its not necessirlay even christian, except that you use Gregorian chant to relax.

It was only three years ago before I ever did it in a guided way and it let me fall asleep/relax faster that I could do it in my own mind. However, the past few months I haven’t done it at all…probably since before summer.

At the campus ministry retreat we use a version that is monastic, that the minister (catholic lay minister, average roman Catholic) had learned and used himself…so he’s not an expert.

Thanks…I’m going to try to keep asking others and get more (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Meggie]

I’m not sure if it is/isn’t about God. I’ve always used it for God in the genral sence. I wasn’t raised as a Catholic, but with Catholic ideals. In this prayer its more about relaxation and God/Jesus as a part of that. At the retreat a few verses were read…I’m not too sure.

 

[buzzcut]

I don’t think a regular doctor would take me seriously.

Depends how well-informed your doctor is. There is some material in the literature on relaxation-induced anxiety and even relaxation-induced panic attacks. See for example Ley, R., “Panic attacks during relaxation and relaxation-induced anxiety: a hyperventilation interpretation,” J Behav Ther Exp Psychiatry, 1988 Dec, 19(4), pp. 253-9.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Jim,

I get the feeling I’m being shadowed with regard to centering prayer comments that I make. There are several concepts floating around out there, as you well know, and there truly needs to be instruction and caution. It seems this dear person got the wrong kind of instruction. To dismiss it and suggest that CP is ok, is not what she needs to hear at this time, do you agree?

I don’t have any problem at all with the true position of centering prayer, and if you do a search on my profile, you may come across old posts where I spoke positively about it. The problem is one of readiness, sound instruction, and correct theistic focus. Deep down, I think we are on the same page, yes?

I’m not shadowing you, but merely reading the threads that you’re posting in.

The problem is that you’re spreading misinformation about Centering Prayer.

I didn’t suggest Centering Prayer to her in this thread, although she would benefit from it.

Perhaps it would be better for you not to mention what Centering Prayer is, being from what you’ve posted so far, you obviously don’t know.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I get the feeling I’m being shadowed with regard to centering prayer comments that I make.

The comments are inaccurate.

There are several concepts floating around out there, as you well know, and there truly needs to be instruction and caution.

The only concepts are one’s like yourself, which are incorrect.

It seems this dear person got the wrong kind of instruction. To dismiss it and suggest that CP is ok, is not what she needs to hear at this time, do you agree?

To suggest that it is like CP, is what I was correcting. It’s not even close.

I don’t have any problem at all with the true position of centering prayer, and if you do a search on my profile, you may come across old posts where I spoke positively about it. The problem is one of readiness, sound instruction, and correct theistic focus

.

Centering Prayer isn’t rocket science or some higher form of prayer reserved only for the spiritually developed contemplatives.
The instruction is very basic and simple, as the prayer is.

Deep down, I think we are on the same page, yes?

I don’t know?

Peace
Jim

 

[Joysong]

Well, Jim, I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut and efforts, and I guess in the final analysis, let the reader beware and do his homework. To whom shall we go? Who has words of eternal life?

[sign]Follow this road.[/sign] vs. [sign]No, follow this road[/sign]

I think the person must read the works of the expert, St. Teresa, and follow her teachings if they don’t want to get lost on the journey.

 

[amoxoxoma]

I’ve done what is called “body prayer” or other types of “meditation”(using the word loosely) for most of my life.

For those who don’t know, what body prayer is is based on a monasitc prayer. When I was a young kid I heard about it and used it to fall asleep. What it is is controlled breatheing by meatred song, such as gregorian chant or syphony music. During this time you start in your extremities, such as your fingers or toes.

Using this monks can reach the state of Theda brain waves, similar to someone who takes LSD, except for not as shocking to the brain, and more metered. There are three states of consious brain waves Alpha (awake, alert) Beta (dreaming) Theda(subconsious/dreaming) the unconsious (comotose) is delta.

I’ve done this with a guide a few times at retreats. And occasionaly, in a matter of minutes was dreaming a bit.

However this time I had a rather bad experiance, I must of reached a subconsious thought, and I panicked with alot of wierd things happening such as shortness of breath and fast heartbeat/shaking. I don’t think a regular doctor would take me seriously, so I’m looking for others who meditate, or know more than the bits and pieces I know to help me.

I’m even afraid of my normal meditiation right now, afraid to get into deeper meditation state.

Who do I ask or turn to…the person who guided us on our retreat had never heard of a bad reaction.

That someone would be leading others into deep states and not know that some might have a “bad” reaction is really unfortunate. The badness, or unpleasantness, of the experience needs to be understood in context.

This sounds like some of the experiences I would occassionally have when I was practising TM years ago. They used to call it “unstressing.” And it appears you had a bit of an anxiety or panic episode when it happened.

For Centering Prayer Fr. Keating explains some of these phenomena physiologically as well. When we center we allow our body/mind to obtain deep rest and we turn over the contents of the subconscious to God as we become aware of them as thoughts, images and sensations. Sometimes we may experience disturbing thoughts or images, but all we need to do is turn them over to God for healing. If the disturbance is persistent we should probably shorten the time of that type of prayer.

Discuss the situation with your priest or spiritual director or, yes, even a physician. There are times in one’s life when inner tubulence is close to the surface and deep silence just makes us acutely aware of it. It is probably better not to spend much time searching the depths, as they may be coming up to you instead. Bringing the awareness to the middle of the body, in the present moment, with eyes open, remembering to be in the presence of the God in whom we live and move and have our being, can help settle things greatly.

Mental/physical health requires that we bring all of “us”, our “self”, to God in surrender, and yes, some of that “self” is a bit scary. I don’t rule out the possibility of assault from external dark spiritual forces, but most of what comes up inside us in the silence is a product of some experience we had in the past that needs healing. Our intention in all kinds and types of prayer should be to be in loving submission to God, and let Him handle the details.

If you are practicing this “body prayer” to have some particular kind of experience then that is misguided. In prayer we surrender ourselves to God and His mercy. What we experience during that time in prayer really doesn’t matter. It should be let go like the flotsam and jetsam it is. So, what matters is the fruit of prayer in our daily life, not what the temporary and changing content of our experiences in prayer are.