Meditation vs Contemplation

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William777

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Greetings Everyone:

Am new to the forums (first post here), so I just wanted to say hello.

Also, I am wondering if someone can help me discern what the difference is between Meditation and Contemplation?

Thank you,
Blessings,

wm
 
The way I understand it is that meditation is more like a Far Eastern practice where the mind is totally “emptied” of all thought. It can be dangerous to empty your mind b/c then something undesirable could enter in. But contemplative prayer is sitting quietly with God (or Jesus) and “listening” to whatever He might have to say to you. You don’t empty the mind; instead you try to focus on the Lord totally. Perhaps you repeat a phrase every once in awhile like, “I love you Jesus.” or "Speak Lord for your servant is listening. Someone else can probably explain it better but those are simple explanations from a simple person!!
 
Fr. Dubay wrote a book Fire Within that explains contemplation very well. He has a series of talks (podcasts) that give an overview of it (for free!) at EWTNs website. Here is the link:

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=7103&T1=CONTEMPLATION

The topics are as follows:

What is Contemplation?
Love of God
Christian Contemplation vs. Zen Contemplation
The Dynamism of Contemplation
Contemplation in Today’s World
The Radical Call To Deep Prayer
Truth, Joy, Beauty and Love vs. Fads
Living the Gospel Generously
Examples in Scripture of Growing in Prayer
Emptiness & Apparent Emptiness
Silence, Openness, Receptivity
Realistic and Unrealistic Expectations in Prayer

👍
 
The meanings of these words are slightly different from prayer style to prayer style. They’ve also often been used for other things, some of which are New Age fads, not genuine prayer styles.

It’s best to spend some time studying the various LEGITIMATE prayer styles aka Carmelite, Franciscan, Ignatian etc, and understand the context in which the words are used, then you’ll understand what’s meant by them.
 
Below is Catechism’s summary… recommend paragraphs: 2700-2719…for in depth understanding. I would emphasize that meditation is not an emptying of the mind… quite the opposite. Also, you don’t make contemplative prayer happen…you give God the time and He does the heavy work…infuses his Spirit into your heart in a profound way…it would not be correct to say: I am going to enter into contemplative prayer…just as it is** incorrect** to say meditation is an emptying of self.

Lastly,** always** refer to the Catechism…it is a real jewel of Truth in the Church…God bless Blessed Pope John Paul II (R.I.P. 2005+) for his Pontificate which gave us this great jewel…and especially the key “maestros” who spearheaded the effort/work…put it together: …Joseph Cardinal Ratizinger (Pope Benedict XVI) and…Christoph Cardinal Schönborn of Vienna…along with the Bishops Synod who recommended it to Pope JP-II…especially the key bishop…Boston’s…Cardinal Archbishop Bernard Francis Law (1984–2002)…much maligned for the Priest Scandals…but a good holy and faithful man who made serious errors in judgment of his demented and deranged priests’ ability to correct an evil behavior…and let so many victims suffer.

Pax Christi
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION
2720 The Church invites the faithful to regular prayer: daily prayers, the Liturgy of the Hours, Sunday Eucharist, the feasts of the liturgical year.
2721 The Christian tradition comprises three major expressions of the life of prayer: vocal prayer, meditation, and contemplative prayer. They have in common the recollection of the heart.
2722 Vocal prayer, founded on the union of body and soul in human nature, associates the body with the interior prayer of the heart, following Christ’s example of praying to his Father and teaching the Our Father to his disciples.
2723 Meditation is a prayerful quest engaging thought, imagination, emotion, and desire. Its goal is to make our own in faith the subject considered, by confronting it with the reality of our own life.
2724 Contemplative prayer is the simple expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gaze of faith fixed on Jesus, an attentiveness to the Word of God, a silent love. It achieves real union with the prayer of Christ to the extent that it makes us share in his mystery.
 
Hey William,

Eastern mediatation has nothing to do with “emptying the mind.” That is an unfortunate stereotype Buddhist mediation involves a great degree of awareness and has much to do with controlling and focusing the mind.

I assume you are speaking about Catholic meditation and contemplation, however. Meditation in Catholic spirituality refers primarily to discursive thought about a subject. For instance, one can read a short passage from Sacred Scripture and meditate on it, get into the context of the passage, what it means for you personally, etc. It can also mean focused thinking about a certain subject such as God’s eternal existence, the impermanence of material creation, the consequences of sin, etc. The purpose of mediation is to help one turn away from sin and to inspire love of God. Turning away from sin is the first step in the spiritual life. Such writers as St. John of the Cross and St. Theresa of Avila advised beginners to devote much time to discursive meditation which will often eventually lead to contemplation.

Contemplation generally refers to non-discursive meditation. Spiritual writers usually distinguish between active and passive contemplation. Active contemplation is often explained as actively seeking to quiet the mind by controlling one’s train of thought and “resting” in God’s presence. Passive contemplation is a grace from God that makes us aware of His presence in various ways and degrees. Passive contemplation is the highest form of prayer and at deeper levels it can involve a great degree of anguish and confusion as God’s revelation of Himself dispels our preconceptions and instills wisdom. With effort and diligence, active contemplation can become habitual, creating the environment for passive contemplation, although God can, and does at times bestow passive contemplation even upon sinners or those engaged in a very active life.

Most people do not progress to contemplation because of attachments to sin. This is why meditation is so important. Regular directed meditation is a great aid in overcoming vice and and other attachments that prevent one’s mind from focusing on God and becoming “pure of heart.” It stimulates the desire to love God, enlightens us as to our sins that we may not even be aware of, and fosters the courage and strength needed to abandon one’s sinful habits.

For a pretty comprehensive overview of Christian Spirituality I would recommend “The Three Ages of the Spiritual Life” by Fr. Reginald Garrigou-LaGrange, O.P.
 
I assume you are speaking about Catholic meditation and contemplation.
Right.
Meditation in Catholic spirituality refers primarily to discursive thought about a subject. For instance, one can read a short passage from Sacred Scripture and meditate on it, get into the context of the passage, what it means for you personally, etc. It can also mean focused thinking about a certain subject such as God’s eternal existence, the impermanence of material creation, the consequences of sin, etc. The purpose of mediation is to help one turn away from sin and to inspire love of God. Turning away from sin is the first step in the spiritual life. Such writers as St. John of the Cross and St. Theresa of Avila advised beginners to devote much time to discursive meditation which will often eventually lead to contemplation.
Discursive thought sounds like the distinguishing factor I was seeking. Thank you.

I’ve heard the term discursive used in Catholic circles before, but I never realized its application, as you have demonstrated it.

I just looked it up online, and the dictionary definition reads:

dictionary.reference.com/browse/discursive

But this definition tends to sounds a bit dangerous. It’s like letting go of the steering wheel. The Catholic meaning may be a “letting go”, but also a “turning away from sin and back to God” - a sort of metanoia. In practice, it wouldn’t be like letting go of the steering wheel, but more of like - “I’m going to let go of the idea of driving off that cliff, so I can turn back to the safe road…”

That said, some of the techniques you suggest sound a bit like Lectio Divina, but I could be wrong. In any case, the practical technique and application of prayerful meditation and contemplation is more like what I am seeking.
Contemplation generally refers to non-discursive meditation. Spiritual writers usually distinguish between active and passive contemplation. Active contemplation is often explained as actively seeking to quiet the mind by controlling one’s train of thought and “resting” in God’s presence. Passive contemplation is a grace from God that makes us aware of His presence in various ways and degrees. Passive contemplation is the highest form of prayer and at deeper levels it can involve a great degree of anguish and confusion as God’s revelation of Himself dispels our preconceptions and instills wisdom. With effort and diligence, active contemplation can become habitual, creating the environment for passive contemplation, although God can, and does at times bestow passive contemplation even upon sinners or those engaged in a very active life.
I’ve experienced infused contemplation, but the active part is a bit new to me.

Yeah, one is left kind of reeling from the passivity, but I sense a sort of need for activity in my spiritual life now. Not sure what to do about it.
For a pretty comprehensive overview of Christian Spirituality I would recommend “The Three Ages of the Spiritual Life” by Fr. Reginald Garrigou-LaGrange, O.P.
Is this the well from which you drew your understandings expressed above?

Excellent post, Mark!

And thank you to all the others who contributed as well.

Blessings,

wm
 
Meditation can open you up to Contemplation, but Contemplation comes from God, not from the method we use.

Jesus taught his disciples to “watch and pray.”

In the Orthodox tradition, to “watch,” means to watch your thoughts and not allow them to grab hold of your attention, but to let them evaporate, and replace those thoughts with a prayer word or as they advise, “The Jesus Prayer,” Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Thoughts come from outside of our spirit and are often influenced by our lower soul which is attached to worldly appetites. Thoughts also come from the evil one who’s purpose is to draw us out of prayer.

So, as the Ancient Mystics taught, do not hang on to thoughts, but let them go by saying a prayer word to replace them. A prayer word in this sense is actually consist of a group of words like the Jesus Prayer, or just saying the name of our Lord Jesus.

In all, when we find ourselves being drawn away from prayer by thoughts, just let them go and return to the Jesus Prayer, while always placing ourselves in the presence of God who dwells in the center of our being.

Emptying of the mind isn’t emptying to a state of non-thought, but of being aware of the presence of God alone.

This is contemplative prayer, which opens us up to contemplation, but it is not contemplation, which can only come from God.

Jim
 
But this definition tends to sounds a bit dangerous. It’s like letting go of the steering wheel. The Catholic meaning may be a “letting go”, but also a “turning away from sin and back to God” - a sort of metanoia. In practice, it wouldn’t be like letting go of the steering wheel, but more of like - “I’m going to let go of the idea of driving off that cliff, so I can turn back to the safe road…”
For me, the “steering wheel” refers to my egoic, conscious mind. When I fly an airplane on autopilot, I’m still responsible for the plane, but I can trust that as long as I’m where I should be and have plenty of clearance, a fifteen second glance away from the instruments will be uneventful.

But everything we are taught, we are taught about it as a matter of focused attention. We are never taught to engage our peripheral awareness, with notable exceptions of learning to drive and playing video games. You get good at it, then even though you might be focused on one thing, you recognize threats and things that need attention in your peripheral vision.

Contemplation, to me, is a method to harmonize the conscious and subconscious minds. Of what I call “focused” and “peripheral” consciousness. When we sleep, we trust that we will be safe even though we’re not counting our heartbeats, timing our breathing, and doing all the other things to keep us alive and well. But when we are awake, it’s always SOMETHING. We’re constantly aware of this or that, thinking about this or that, worrying over tomorrow, responding to distractions.

So we give our focused minds a break by letting them rest, and trust that we are not in any danger by virtue of sitting here quietly for a few minutes. Once we get used to living without intentional focused thought, it empowers our subconscious based on increased trust of itself, BY the conscious.

I look at the subconscious as an army of workers and technicians, monitoring bodily functions, keeping our balance, etc. The focused mind is the boss, but the subconscious is what actually does the work. In 11 years and over 50,000 I’ve even come up with techniques that worked for me, to open communications between the conscious and subconscious, so that the conscious may instruct the subconscious, and the subconscious will conform to the will of the conscious by renewing itself. Then once I got going (it took years to get going) things started to move along faster, to the point I’ve pretty much “signed off” my subconscious to operate independently, and only to make me aware in the conscious mind, of things it needs to know or otherwise will find interesting.

Before I leave it, I wonder if I’ve gone too far off the center here for anyone to follow me so I’ll give a simplistic example:

A young man is wandering about in a room full of people 30 years his senior. Out of the corner of his eye, he spots an attractive young woman (the only one in the room near his age), and goes over to talk to her. My point is that he was not looking “at” the girl, and he may not even been looking “for” that or any other girl. But he noticed her because two things happened: 1) his peripheral mind (via peripheral vision) noticed she was there, analyzed her enough to know she may be of interest to the man’s conscious attention (notice it selected her in a big room of people moving around – so there is some type of pattern recognition algorithm at work) and 2) the notification happened – maybe in the form of “hey there’s a girl over here,” or maybe more simply, “hey, turn your head that way.”

Once I trained my subconscious to be sensitive to the things I care about and how to recognize them, it became my partner rather than my foe. This correlates with what I call my “birth in the spirit” or “saw that I am in the kingdom.” Note the kingdom of God, which itself is an attitude of love, is not only for after we die.

Alan
 
In terms of “emptiness”, this from Ruusbroec may be of interest:
“…And therefore, too, such enlightened men are, with a free spirit, lifted up above reason into a bare and imageless vision, wherein lives the eternal indrawing summons of the Divine Unity; and, with an imageless and bare understanding, they pass through all works, and all exercises, and all things, until they reach the summit of their spirits…Here our reason and every activity characterized by the making of distinctions must give way, for our powers now become simply one in love, grow silent, and incline toward the Father’s face, since this revelation of the Father raises the soul above reason to a state of imageless formlessness and bareness. There the soul is simple, spotless, and pure, empty of everything. In this pure emptiness the Father reveals his divine resplendence, which neither reason nor senses, neither rational observation nor distinctions can attain…There, their bare understanding is drenched through by the Eternal Brightness, even as the air is drenched through by the sunshine. And the bare, uplifted will is transformed and drenched through by abysmal love, even as iron is by fire. And the bare, uplifted memory feels itself enwrapped and established in an abysmal Absence of image. And thereby the created image is united above reason in a threefold way with its Eternal Image, which is the origin of its being and its life…”
***- Blessed John Ruusbroec, (1293-1381), Dutch Catholic mystic ***
That is contemplation my friends as described by one of our greatest cartographers of the spiritual path 🙂 (some actually claim that Blessed Ruusbroec is the greatest ever Trinitarian mystic yet seen by the Church).

I encourage everyone to read his works!
 
Greetings Everyone:

Am new to the forums (first post here), so I just wanted to say hello.

Also, I am wondering if someone can help me discern what the difference is between Meditation and Contemplation?

Thank you,
Blessings,

wm
Saint Francis of Sales said: “prayer is called meditation until it has produced the honey of devotion; after that it changes into contemplation. . . . Thus, as bees draw nectar from the flowers, we meditate to gather the love of God, but, having gathered it, we contemplate God and are attentive to His goodness because of the sweetness that love makes us find in it.”
 
This movie clip gives the very definition of Contemplation. It’s the scene from Pulp Fiction that talks about Uncomfortable Silences. WARNING: vulgarity included. WARNING the rest of the movie is about violent people.

youtube.com/watch?v=qgmSw-T6Qs4
 
This movie clip gives the very definition of Contemplation. It’s the scene from Pulp Fiction that talks about Uncomfortable Silences. WARNING: vulgarity included. WARNING the rest of the movie is about violent people.

youtube.com/watch?v=qgmSw-T6Qs4
"…Umma Thurman: Don’t you hate that?
**John Travolta: **Hate what?
Umma Thurman: Uncomfortable silences. Why do we feel its necessary to yak about [bull****] in order to be comfortable?
John Travolta: I don’t know, that’s a good question.
Umma Thurman: That’s when you know you’ve found somebody really special, when you can just shut the [bad word] up for a minute and comfortably share silence…"
Apart from the language (a lot of the F word :o ) this is a surprisingly keen insight into contemplative prayer! Tarantino has it one: in most forms of “prayer” we yak on so much about our problems and beseech God for this and that.

In contemplation, all that yabbering on comes to a halt. We sit in our spirit, in our mind, bare of all thoughts, images, memories, words, feelings, emotions. They come and go but we merely notice them and return to our practice of silence and in so doing we simply share a “comfortable moment of silence” with our Beloved, face to face. And that silence speaks louder than words and is testament to true closeness between our soul and God.

At first it feels uncomfortable, unnatural even because we are so attached to the movie playing in our heads, to our emotions, thoughts, to vocal prayer but with practice it becomes the deepest, most comfortable, most rewarding experience with God.

How odd that such an insight can be found in amidst a violent Tarantino movie! Truly God is in all things, even in the most surprising of places, if only we have eyes to see - and you so clearly do my friend!

Well done for finding that and for having the perception to discern meaningful truth in of all things - Pulp Fiction! That is truly inspired.
 
The Accent to Truth by Merton gives much more info on the differences described by john of the cross
 
The Accent to Truth by Merton gives much more info on the differences described by john of the cross
I’m a really slow reader, so I have a heap to read before I can get there, sorry. :o

Can you cite any quick examples that you find particularly striking?

Alan
 
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