mediums

[ejp123]

*From the CCC
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
*
What if someone truly has a gift from God as a medium? Im trying to understand why this would be unhealthy and problematic to consult with one. I hear all sorts of stories about people communicating to deceased loved ones through mediums. The mediums were accurate in their description of the deceased as well. The person who consulted was overwhelmed and touched to have been able to communicate with the deceased. I can understand if the medium is being abusive and hurtful with this ability, but what if they’re helpful and responsible?

How is this different from praying to a saint, Jesus, Mary, God or deceased love one? Thx

 

[victorbuhagiar]

I have a disadvantage here as I do not believe in mediums. I think that they do a lot of homework before they meet their clients. But on the supposition that such a person exist, I would impose a lot of questions. ex: Does this person accept money? Does his “visions” come from God? There are satanists who are assisted by evil visions. Italy is famous for its mediums. They are all fakes and many were put in prison. So many get caught by spending money on such people. Personally I would steer as far away from them as possible.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

*From the CCC
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
*
What if someone truly has a gift from God as a medium? Im trying to understand why this would be unhealthy and problematic to consult with one. I hear all sorts of stories about people communicating to deceased loved ones through mediums. The mediums were accurate in their description of the deceased as well. The person who consulted was overwhelmed and touched to have been able to communicate with the deceased. I can understand if the medium is being abusive and hurtful with this ability, but what if they’re helpful and responsible?

How is this different from praying to a saint, Jesus, Mary, God or deceased love one? Thx

Well, " sort of " what do you mean exactly? You know what they say," tada tada or get off of tadatada. " If you are Catholic, you may not consult a medium or engage in any parlor games similar to that, ojai boards etc, black masses, etc. To do so may constitute a serioius sin ( mortal if you remember). The reason is that all such things are an attempt to gain special knowledge we have no right to and all such practices directly or indirectly appeal to Satanic powers to aid in this. This is not always experssed but it is certainly implied because God does not participate in " games, " The strange thing is that neither mediums nor Satan know anything about the future. Only God knows the future and as I said, he does not play games and he certainly doesn’t tell Satan anything. Now, do you mean to tell me that you are going to pal up with Satan by playing these silly games!!! In these matters the Church knows what she is talking about, she has been dealing with evil for 2000 years. So even if you can’t really understand why, pay attention to a wise Mother at least.

:hey_bud:

 

[styrgwillidar]

“I hear all sorts of stories about people communicating to deceased loved ones through mediums. The mediums were accurate in their description of the deceased as well.”

Yeah, and you’ll hear all kinds of stories about mediums ‘helping’ the police. If you actually go to the departments you’ll find out no such thing occurred. The medium may have called them with tips, or contacted them but provided no useful info.

Do you know what a ‘cold reading’ is? ‘Hot reading’? Confirmation bias? Texas sharpshooter fallacy? Selection Bias?

Here’s a good place to start- www.skepdic.com although they are anti-religion they do provide good info on mediums and critical thinking and analysis.

ETA: getting away from mediums but applying the same principles to personality tests- people will say how accurate the results are – regardless of whether it is their ‘actual’ results or a random selection.
skepdic.com/myersb.html

 

[Iron_Donkey]

*From the CCC
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
*
What if someone truly has a gift from God as a medium? Im trying to understand why this would be unhealthy and problematic to consult with one. I hear all sorts of stories about people communicating to deceased loved ones through mediums. The mediums were accurate in their description of the deceased as well. The person who consulted was overwhelmed and touched to have been able to communicate with the deceased. I can understand if the medium is being abusive and hurtful with this ability, but what if they’re helpful and responsible?

How is this different from praying to a saint, Jesus, Mary, God or deceased love one? Thx

You cannot call the ability to do something that God had forbidden a “gift from God” in any reasonable sense. Being a medium is prohibited, the ability to be one, if such an ability exists, does not prove that God wants a person to be one. Otherwise why prohibit it in the first place? You would not say that eating a fruit is forbidden to all people except those who have the ability to eat, for which people that ability is a gift from God and proves that they may do so - who then would the prohibition actually apply to and why mention it at all?

Personally, I tend to think that nearly all if not all such stuff is fake, however that doesn’t change anything really. God has told us how we are to relate to Him. Trying to deal through mediums is not part of that.

 

[ejp123]

Well, " sort of " what do you mean exactly? You know what they say," tada tada or get off of tadatada. " If you are Catholic, you may not consult a medium or engage in any parlor games similar to that, ojai boards etc, black masses, etc. To do so may constitute a serioius sin ( mortal if you remember). The reason is that all such things are an attempt to gain special knowledge we have no right to and all such practices directly or indirectly appeal to Satanic powers to aid in this. This is not always experssed but it is certainly implied because God does not participate in " games, " The strange thing is that neither mediums nor Satan know anything about the future. Only God knows the future and as I said, he does not play games and he certainly doesn’t tell Satan anything. Now, do you mean to tell me that you are going to pal up with Satan by playing these silly games!!! In these matters the Church knows what she is talking about, she has been dealing with evil for 2000 years. So even if you can’t really understand why, pay attention to a wise Mother at least.

:hey_bud:/QUOTE
Plz reread my first statement. No, I am not interested in games, tarot cards or seeing the future, just asking about mediums. It is always easy to play the “satan card”, yet I do understand the potential for the harm such as opening portals…etc. but I’m really looking for some open minded responses. I know what the church teaches as i posted the CCC section on it in my original post but there are some questions left unanswered based on the short paragraph that is provided. Thx

 

[CatholicTrekkie]

From the CCC
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

What if someone truly has a gift from God as a medium? Im trying to understand why this would be unhealthy and problematic to consult with one. I hear all sorts of stories about people communicating to deceased loved ones through mediums. The mediums were accurate in their description of the deceased as well. The person who consulted was overwhelmed and touched to have been able to communicate with the deceased. I can understand if the medium is being abusive and hurtful with this ability, but what if they’re helpful and responsible?

How is this different from praying to a saint, Jesus, Mary, God or deceased love one? Thx

Mediums differ significantly from praying to the saints, Jesus, Mary, God, etc. For one thing, those people are all in heaven and are incapable of error. Meaning, they cannot trick you, while the vast majority of mediums will try and trick you (there are ways, rather simple ways, to act like you are “speaking with the dead”).

Furthermore, God would not give these “powers” to mediums. He would be contradicting Himself. If He has destroyed Death itself (through His Son, Jesus Christ), then He alone holds power over it. Why would he give that kind of power to mere humans? It is possible that God can reveal things to people about the next life (hence the many private revelations of saints), however, He has done so of his own will, not by the prodding and interference of humans.

For another thing, by consulting mediums, you are essentially telling God “I don’t need you to reveal things to me; these mere humans can do that for me!”. When we pray to the saints and to God, we earnestly ask him to perhaps give us a sign or a feeling of comfort about dead loved ones. However, consulting a medium attempts to circumvent God’s power and authority.

While I don’t believe most mediums are channelling Satanic powers (as I said, most of them are frauds), it’s probably best not to risk it. You don’t know what they could be up to. Besides, if you have the power of the Almightly God and His Son Jesus Christ, who destroyed Death itself, on your side, why would you rely on anything less?

Talk to those friends again. When they consulted the mediums, did they make alot of general statements such as “I can see…blonde hair”, in order to ascertain a positive or negative reaction from your friends? Did they correct themselves? Were the mediums essentially telling your friends good things about their deceased loved ones, i.e. “telling them what they want to hear”? These are some of the common strategies used by so-called mediums and mind readers.

 

[Dorothy]

*From the CCC
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
*
What if someone truly has a gift from God as a medium? Im trying to understand why this would be unhealthy and problematic to consult with one. I hear all sorts of stories about people communicating to deceased loved ones through mediums. The mediums were accurate in their description of the deceased as well. The person who consulted was overwhelmed and touched to have been able to communicate with the deceased. I can understand if the medium is being abusive and hurtful with this ability, but what if they’re helpful and responsible?

How is this different from praying to a saint, Jesus, Mary, God or deceased love one? Thx

You mentioned in another post to not “play the Satan card”, but I can’t help to mention that facts that “mediums” mention about others are known to the evil spirits, and whether the “medium” is aware of it or not, that is where they are getting their information.

Usually mediums discuss topics that appeal to their listeners, such as “your husband is okay” or “yes, the gentleman who is courting you right now is the right man for you.”

The difference in praying to Jesus, our Blessed Mother and the saints is that God is glorified, and the intercession of the saints helps us to surrender to the will of God. These things are helpful towards our salvation, and sanctification.

It is not safe to seek mediums to seek information out of curiosity. We have all that we need in the public revelation of the Church. To look elsewhere is an insult to the Lord. Also, consider that it would be to the advantage of the evil one if what the medium says sounds “helpful and responsible.” It can lead the gullible person away from a deeper prayer life, which is what really can help them.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You cannot call the ability to do something that God had forbidden a “gift from God” in any reasonable sense. Being a medium is prohibited, the ability to be one, if such an ability exists, does not prove that God wants a person to be one. Otherwise why prohibit it in the first place?

I don’t think that’s the rationale of the CCC citation and I find that you’re actually toeing a potential doctoral problem that would arise if a medium’s abilities were in fact inborn.

But that’s the thing, I think what the OP is asking is what if the abilities themselves are some kind of inborn, mutant power? The thing about inborn abilities is that it’s like talent. You don’t consult anything but yourself to activate that talent. You don’t need to ‘worship’ or ‘consult’ anything else just to use your abilities.

This is of course on the assumption that a medium’s power depends on something from within and not from without.

 

[trials]

OK, prior to my re-conversion, I used to be really into mediums and psychics. I thought, what can be wrong, if they are helping grieving people, if they give messages of hope in the afterlife, if they talk vaguely about angels and light and our loved ones being at peace, life everlasting, etc… I even remember arguing with my very Catholic mother about how nothing they did contradicted the teachings of the Catholic Church - I was convinced they even affirmed the teachings of the Church, proving that there was an afterlife.

My interest began because I had a relation that died when i was in my teens, I was very close to her and I would have done anything to hear from her again. I see now I was vulnerable, I lacked trust in God, for wondering if she was alright despite the fact that she was the best Catholic I have ever known - I just wanted to bypass Church teachings, bypass prayers to God for her and Masses for the dead and talk to her again.

Luckily I never had a one to one with a medium about her, though I tried to set one up, but I have seen friends of mine having readings done about their loved ones. I have seen fake mediums, but I have also seen genuine mediums, who knew impossible details, who brought startled reactions from grieving family members I knew - not set up and not details they could have researched. They knew things they shouldn’t have known.

Then thankfully God found me, I re-converted and was very remorseful for all my interest in the occult now that I understood it meant I was lacking trust in God and saying the Church and God was not enough for me.

Fake mediums are clearly engaging in fraudulent deceit, but later on I was told exactly what a genuine medium does - they are unfortunately channelling not the dead but evil spirits, with Satan behind them, that can reveal frighteningly accurate details about loved ones that have passed on to draw those grieving family members into a greater interest in the occult, and so further away from God. I only found true peace about my dead relative when I took a deeper interest in my faith and not in the occult. Now I thank God for putting her in my life, I pray she is enjoying Heaven and I ask her to intercede for me if she is able. This peace is nothing like the feelings I experienced when I was interested in the occult. Please believe me on this.

 

[Dorothy]

OK, prior to my re-conversion, I used to be really into mediums and psychics. I thought, what can be wrong, if they are helping grieving people, if they give messages of hope in the afterlife, if they talk vaguely about angels and light and our loved ones being at peace, life everlasting, etc… I even remember arguing with my very Catholic mother about how nothing they did contradicted the teachings of the Catholic Church - I was convinced they even affirmed the teachings of the Church, proving that there was an afterlife.

My interest began because I had a relation that died when i was in my teens, I was very close to her and I would have done anything to hear from her again. I see now I was vulnerable, I lacked trust in God, for wondering if she was alright despite the fact that she was the best Catholic I have ever known - I just wanted to bypass Church teachings, bypass prayers to God for her and Masses for the dead and talk to her again.

Luckily I never had a one to one with a medium about her, though I tried to set one up, but I have seen friends of mine having readings done about their loved ones. I have seen fake mediums, but I have also seen genuine mediums, who knew impossible details, who brought startled reactions from grieving family members I knew - not set up and not details they could have researched. They knew things they shouldn’t have known.

Then thankfully God found me, I re-converted and was very remorseful for all my interest in the occult now that I understood it meant I was lacking trust in God and saying the Church and God was not enough for me.

Fake mediums are clearly engaging in fraudulent deceit, but later on I was told exactly what a genuine medium does - they are unfortunately channelling not the dead but evil spirits, with Satan behind them, that can reveal frighteningly accurate details about loved ones that have passed on to draw those grieving family members into a greater interest in the occult, and so further away from God. I only found true peace about my dead relative when I took a deeper interest in my faith and not in the occult. Now I thank God for putting her in my life, I pray she is enjoying Heaven and I ask her to intercede for me if she is able. This peace is nothing like the feelings I experienced when I was interested in the occult. Please believe me on this.

Excellent post! Thanks for sharing that. I believe you are exactly correct!

 

[ejp123]

I think people go to mediums because they want to reconnect with their deceased or want reassurance that they are safe. With that being said, is it presumptuous to believe that the deceased are in purgatory or heaven? For example, say my friend dies 20 years before me. I pray to him and for him. Have yearly Catholic Masses for him…etc. Then I die in grace go to purgatory and heaven and find that he is not there. He didn’t make it. He is in hell. All the prayers and hopes are in vain. just a thought and asking for feedback, thx

 

[thistle]

*From the CCC
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
*
What if someone truly has a gift from God as a medium? Im trying to understand why this would be unhealthy and problematic to consult with one. I hear all sorts of stories about people communicating to deceased loved ones through mediums. The mediums were accurate in their description of the deceased as well. The person who consulted was overwhelmed and touched to have been able to communicate with the deceased. I can understand if the medium is being abusive and hurtful with this ability, but what if they’re helpful and responsible?

How is this different from praying to a saint, Jesus, Mary, God or deceased love one? Thx

ALL so-called mediums are fakes. There is no such thing as a genuine psychic.

 

[Sonic]

*From the CCC
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
*
What if someone truly has a gift from God as a medium? Im trying to understand why this would be unhealthy and problematic to consult with one. I hear all sorts of stories about people communicating to deceased loved ones through mediums. The mediums were accurate in their description of the deceased as well. The person who consulted was overwhelmed and touched to have been able to communicate with the deceased. I can understand if the medium is being abusive and hurtful with this ability, but what if they’re helpful and responsible?

How is this different from praying to a saint, Jesus, Mary, God or deceased love one? Thx

ejp123,

There is a big difference between a “psychic medium” and a person with a charismatic gift. First, if a charismatic gift is real it comes from God. If the gift is not from God, then it is a fake charismatic gift which comes from a demonic source or from the use of human trickery.

If it comes from God, then the person with the charismatic gift can only use it when God chooses it to be used (and only for what God wants it to be used for). If someone says they can turn the gift on and off at will to give psychic readings, then this is a big tip-off you are dealing with something that is not from God.

In the case of the demonic, the person receives information and messages from a demon. This is why some messages can appear to be miraculous to those who go to psychics. Demons are pure intellects and will, and so are not hindered by human physical and mental limitations. They can tell you all kinds of information that us humans couldn’t possibly know. They also have really big memories concerning what’s happened in the past, and make better educated guesses about the future than humans (see Angels and Demons by Peter Kreeft and An Exorcist Tells His Story By Fr. Gabriel Amorth). That is why many people are fooled so easily by messages supposedly given by mediums.

In the case of trickery, most psychics are in fact con-artists who are familiar with stage magic tricks (like those of cold reading and the Victorian era style seance).

I have in my possession several books on Cold Reading and the performance of the old style spook show seances. Two of which are: The Full Facts about Cold Reading by Ian Rowland, and Making Manifestations: Building the Commercial Seance by Lee Earle. Both are excellent sources which give insights into the world of psychic fakery. I can honestly tell you it’s not that hard to fake a ghostly encounter, and many magicians will tell you that the most skeptical people are often the easiest to fool.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Once again, all this kind of stuff is absolutely forbidden. God does not give anyone a " gift " to do something forbidden by the Church. You have opened yourself up to Satanic influence even by considering such a possibility. Talk to your parish priest, he will tell you the same thing.

:banghead:

 

[ejp123]

Once again, all this kind of stuff is absolutely forbidden. God does not give anyone a " gift " to do something forbidden by the Church. You have opened yourself up to Satanic influence even by considering such a possibility. Talk to your parish priest, he will tell you the same thing.

:banghead:

Really? God obeys the church? maybe that’s for another thread.

 

[thistle]

Really? God obeys the church? maybe that’s for another thread.

Christ (God) established the Church and gave it authority in matters of faith and morals.
He gave the Church authority to bind and loose and God said he will be bound by whatever his Church binds.
That means the teachings of the Church have the full authority of God behind them and God said he would be bound by them.

Matt 18:18 Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.