Medjugorje Confusion

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Hello, I’m struggling with a friend who is very upset about how our parish hosted a Medjugorje information night about the Vatican authorizing it as an official pilgrimage site. My friend cites a 2013 letter by Cardinal Vigano (on behalf of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ) stating that Catholics “are not permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such ‘apparitions’ would be taken for granted”. I didn’t attend the meeting but it appeared the credibility was not questioned. A Fr Leon Pereira discussed “Our Lady’s” 5 messages at Medjugorje = that’s what was advertised in church.

My question is, would that be a serious problem that our pastor didn’t communicate in the advertising and at the event that the apparitions haven’t been deemed authentic? My friend thinks this is a breach of Canon Law and very dangerous. What should I say to my friend and to my pastor?
I should note my pastor mentioned at the end of some Masses that Medjugorje hasn’t been deemed “worthy of belief”, but that statement wasn’t listed in the written advertisements.

In 2017, Archbishop Henryk Hoser of Warsaw-Praga, who was sent to Medjugorje by Pope Francis, stated: “The devotion of Medjugorje is allowed. It’s not prohibited, and need not be done in secret.”

He also clarified that bishops are free to organize pilgrimages to pray to Our Lady, but there is no authorization to pray for the apparitions. Would Archbishop Hoser’s statements carry any authority for a devotion to Medjugorje? Is it dangerous to be devoted to a not-yet authentic apparition? (especially with some weird sayings from “Our Lady” there). Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much!!

https://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2...edjugorje-are-now-permitted-says-popes-envoy/
 
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Veritas6 said:
My question is, would that be a serious problem that our pastor didn’t communicate in the advertising and at the event that the apparitions haven’t been deemed authentic? My friend thinks this is a breach of Canon Law and very dangerous. What should I say to my friend and to my pastor?
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First of all, you yourself weren’t there, so since you don’t know exactly what went on at the meeting, I don’t see how you can say anything about whether the credibility was or was not questioned.

Second of all, your friend seems to be the one who’s most bothered about this, not yourself. So your friend should be able to take it up with the pastor and then if he doesn’t provide satisfactory answers, the friend could choose to take it up with the diocesan bishop after speaking with the pastor. The bishop would then decide whether to do anything and if so, what. I am presuming your friend was actually at this talk; if your friend didn’t attend either, then they, like you, have no idea what exactly was said in order to criticize it.
I should note my pastor mentioned at the end of some Masses that Medjugorje hasn’t been deemed “worthy of belief”, but that statement wasn’t listed in the written advertisements.
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Written announcements about events are blurbs, often written in a hurry by the staff, and do not always contain all the important info about some event. The pastor did his duty by announcing multiple times that it wasn’t deemed worthy of belief. This speaks well of him.
In 2017, Archbishop Henryk Hoser of Warsaw-Praga, who was sent to Medjugorje by Pope Francis, stated: “The devotion of Medjugorje is allowed. It’s not prohibited, and need not be done in secret.”

He also clarified that bishops are free to organize pilgrimages to pray to Our Lady, but there is no authorization to pray for the apparitions. Would Archbishop Hoser’s statements carry any authority for a devotion to Medjugorje?
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Not sure about his statements particularly, but the Miracle Hunter site has a lot of information relating to the status of Medjugorje, and the current position seems to be that it’s okay for Catholics to go there on individual pilgrimages to pray, but they must not be organized by clergy or church groups and they must not give the impression that the Church has approved the apparitions.

This is consistent with my experiences. I could go to Medjugorje myself, and I could join a tour that’s going from some private non-Church-affiliated tour company, but my parish church is not going to be planning a pilgrimage to Medjugorje any time soon in the manner they currently do for trips to Rome, to Lourdes, to Fatima, etc.

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Is it dangerous to be devoted to a not-yet authentic apparition? (especially with some weird sayings from “Our Lady” there).
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I note that the devotion is actually to God and Our Lady, not to “an apparition” authentic or not. Worshipping God and being devoted to Mary is never dangerous. However, some purported apparitions can be fake or misleading to the faithful.

I myself believe it’s more prudent for me to focus my devotions on apparitions that have received at least some measure of approval. Therefore, most of the apparitions I pay attention to have been approved. There are a couple of unapproved apparitions that interest me, but in those cases, while the apparition itself is unapproved, it has been “approved for faith expression” meaning that the local bishop has specifically stated and in some cases even promoted the praying of prayers and/or the visiting of holy places associated with the apparition. Furthermore, in all these cases the visionaries are already deceased, so there is no possibility of new visions, apparitions, locutions etc cropping up now.

As far as I know, Medjugorje is not even “approved for faith expression”; moreover, the visionaries are still claiming to report new apparitions and messages, which to me is a red flag because who knows what they’ll be saying Mary said to them tomorrow? I don’t really want to mess with that, especially since Medjugorje is a very long way away - it’s not like I can just drive 5 miles and go to Mass there or anything. I will wait for the Vatican to pronounce on it once and for all, understanding that this may not happen in my lifetime if at all.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
the visionaries are still claiming to report new apparitions and messages, which to me is a red flag because who knows what they’ll be saying Mary said to them tomorrow?
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I’m pretty sure this is the reason official positive pronouncements aren’t made until the apparitions have ended.
 
Veritas6 said:
Hello, I’m struggling with a friend who is very upset
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There is no reason for anyone to be “very upset” about it. He can doubt it’s the right thing to do, and he can ask questions about it, but “very upset”? That makes no sense.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Second of all, your friend seems to be the one who’s most bothered about this, not yourself. So your friend should be able to take it up with the pastor and then if he doesn’t provide satisfactory answers, the friend could choose to take it up with the diocesan bishop after speaking with the pastor. The bishop would then decide whether to do anything and if so, what.
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He talked to my pastor and unfortunately my pastor felt attacked by my friend’s demeanor. My friend has a reputation for being aggressive towards people and this doesn’t suprise me. Earlier, my friend had sent a very passionate letter to our bishop about how he needs to “do more” for the sex abuse crisis. Apparently he believes the bishop is a liar (“responding Cardinal Cupich cares about the sex abuse”) and doesn’t trust his authority. I personally talked to my pastor about the Medujorgje meeting and he said the bishop approved the meeting.

Where my friend gets upset is the advertisement doesn’t talk about it’s authenticity, from his perspective Fr. Leon believes fully in Medujorgje. I don’t think our priest talked about it’s authenticity at the meeting, but I heard him say once at Mass it’s not authentic yet.
 
He has gotten very wrapped up in his emotions about the Church. He mentioned to me he prayed to feel Christ’s pain about how He feels about His Church. He feels he has righteous anger about the sex abuse and is very passionate. He doesn’t trust our bishop or our pastor. It’s very sad to see, there’s no reasoning with him; he’s so hardline.

Because the Medujorgje talk seemed to promote its authenticity he distrusts our priest for allowing it. I’m his Exodus 90 anchor and this is always hard to hear him speak in anger.
 
The priest seems to be stating very clearly, multiple times, that Medjugorje has not been approved by any Church authority as authentic.

I don’t know why your friend would continue to have a problem with the priest after he clearly says this, multiple times.

I think your friend needs to chill out on the Medjugorje issue. It seems like your friend is just looking for reasons to get wound up.
 
The problem is I don’t think our priest made it clear at the meeting itself. I can’t say how many times he said it’s not an approved apparition. My friend is hardline saying Medujorgje is not authentic at all, God wouldn’t allow Satan to twist what Mary said, etc etc. He doesn’t think Archbishop Hoser has any authority to allow pilgrimages because Cardinal Vigano’s letter is infallible. It’s so hard to understand.

I’m living in a faith formation house and we’re going to have a meeting with our priest to allow new roommates. This friend has applied, and it seems like a roller coaster of whether it should be prudent to let him in: he gets angry and upset, then calm, now he’s upset again. I have to listen to this as his Exodus partner. Frankly it sucks.
 
Your friend is quite free to say that Medjugorje is a complete load of bunk. It’s okay for him to say that.
For that matter, your friend would be free to say that he doesn’t believe in Fatima or Lourdes apparitions, or any other approved apparitions.
Catholics are not required to believe in any private revelations.

However, those Catholics who choose to not believe should be respectful of others who choose to believe, and cannot expect everybody to agree with them except in a case where the Church authority has condemned the purported apparition and told Catholics not to go to the site or have anything to do with it. The Church has made no such pronouncement for Medjugorje and Catholics are still permitted to go there and believe in it if they want. So your friend must accept that not everyone is going to agree with his views on Medjugorje.

I am sorry that you have trouble with your friend. I would hope maybe he is getting some mental health help to better manage his moods, emotions, behaviors etc so he doesn’t drive people away. I can understand why such a person might be disruptive to any sort of group home arrangement, especially one where people are earnestly seeking their faith. However, this problem is due to your friend’s moods and personality in general, not to his views on Medjugorje specifically.
 
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@Tis_Bearself has nailed it in her last paragraph. This guy is lucky to have found such a patient and supportive friend as you, but in a case like this, friendship is not enough. Professional help is what he needs, if he’s not getting it already.
Tis_Bearself said:
I am sorry that you have trouble with your friend. I would hope maybe he is getting some mental health help to better manage his moods, emotions, behaviors etc so he doesn’t drive people away. I can understand why such a person might be disruptive to any sort of group home arrangement, especially one where people are earnestly seeking their faith. However, this problem is due to your friend’s moods and personality in general, not to his views on Medjugorje specifically.
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Veritas6 said:
My question is, would that be a serious problem that our pastor didn’t communicate in the advertising and at the event that the apparitions haven’t been deemed authentic?
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There are Meg believers who simply do not accept the CDF’s warning. I would not consider this a “hill do die on”.
Tis_Bearself said:
Written announcements about events are blurbs, often written in a hurry by the staff, and do not always contain all the important info about some event. The pastor did his duty by announcing multiple times that it wasn’t deemed worthy of belief. This speaks well of him.
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This is so true, both time AND space limit what can go into the bulletin.
Veritas6 said:
He doesn’t trust our bishop or our pastor.
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Pray for this friend. He needs it.
 
Were there outsiders running the conference?

By ‘outsiders’ I mean, was it a group that goes from church to church, speaking and answering questions about Medj?

If so, your pastor might just not have thought it was polite to contradict these ‘guests’. Did he invite them, or did a group within the church do so?

Although I question the wisdom of allowing such a conference, your pastor may have been pressured, or wanting to show all sides of the story. I’d let it go for now. I’m guessing that he’ll be making comments on the church’s true policies on Medj soon!
 
When one brings in speakers to a parish, the Diocese must first approve the speakers (be they Clergy, Religious or Laypersons). Our OP may want to confirm that the Diocese approved this event.
 
Our archbishop of Indianapolis approved the meeting, my pastor told me.
 
The last thing I heard that would directly influence a bishop’s decision, was a letter sent to U.S. bishops in 2013. (Probably the document the OP’s friend was referring to). It seems that Ivan, one of the ‘seers’ was scheduled to speak at several churches here. I think all appearances, at least inside churches were cancelled. The letter also warned against participating in any activity that rests on the visions being real.

So, I guess that’s what happened, unless the group actually lied to the bishop. I sincerely hope they didn’t.
 
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We’re not allowed to talk about the material of the unapproved revelation, in other words, discuss what Mary supposedly said to some visionary.

We are allowed to talk about the process and status of approval, and whether the priest is allowed to have somebody speak on the topic at his church, and whether it’s okay for a Catholic to not believe the revelation, and whether the bishop needs to approve the speaker, and so forth.

Nothing has been posted in this thread about the material of the private revelations.
 
I think it is a serious problem… maybe your parish isn’t aware of the Church’s position on Medjugorje.

In the general even for the approved so-called apparitions, the fanaticism that surrounds them is troubling. For an unapproved one like Medjugorge, it is quite offputting for me
 
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