Meds for gays - right or wrong?

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

crusader4life:

I almost don’t see the point of the meds for this situation. The reason why is because there has never been any scientific evidence of homosexual traits. There’s no chromosome, genetic mutation, or hormone in our body to make us naturally lean towards homosexuality. It’s all in our head and thoughts. And because of this…it would be hard to take medicine to change our habits and thoughts. The brain is far more complicated than that. Therapy and psych help may be advised and used, but there’s really no pill that can really help this situation. …at least that’s how I see it.

I think you missed the point. The OP was talking about using a med (like an antidepressant) that has the effect of decreasing sex drive for people who suffer from SSA. I don’t think anyone mentioned treating SSA with drugs…just the sexual desire.

Malia

 

[goofyjim]

What is unchaste about ssa in and of itself? I do not act out and never have but have struggled with ssa. I don’t think I need medication to change that. I for one am growing weary of all these threads from both the right and the left. I would feel more comfortable if we stopped discussing it and the only ones that knew what I was thinking were God, myself, and my confessor.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I don’t think anyone mentioned treating SSA with drugs…just the sexual desire.

That’s precisely why I disagree with this whole line of reasoning. Sexual desire is the best thing going here – there is nothing wrong with the intensity of desire. Only, from a Catholic viewpoint, the object of desire.

Passion is good. I can understand inhibiting passion if the individual is in danger of harming another innocent person, but not if the individual is in danger of making bad decisions. We are *all * in danger of making bad decisions.

It’s “there but for the grace of God go I,” not “there but for the drug that I have chosen.”

 

[BlindSheep]

MikeinSD:

If faithful Christian does not like homosexuals, homosexuality, gay men or lesbians and cites Catholic church teachings, then she or he is discussing a matter of faith. The Catholic church can of course teach and defend its faith as can any other religion. Faith based statements are cannot be contested in secular way. One believes or one doesn’t. If a faithful Christian wants to use science to defend or enforce his or her argument against homosexuals, homosexuality, gay men or lesbians, then he or she has to cite scientific studies, theories, as well as provide scientific proof of his or her thesis or argument.
And be prepared to rebut scientific evidence against his or her thesis.

In other words, dislike homosexuals and homosexuality as much as you like. Cite whatever doctrines you think is necessary. I can’t argue with faith. Cross the line and declare your opinion also as a standard of mental health then be prepared to discuss science.

Sorry, talking about castrating me or my loved ones makes me angry and sad.

Mike-
I can only conclude that you didn’t read my original post. You seem to think that I’m advocating forcing chemical castration on people with SSA, which I’m not. I was tlalking about people who have same-sex attraction and DO NOT want to act on it asking their doctors for medication which would reduce the sex drive. Whether anyone would do this, or how many would, I don’t know, but I was ONLY talking about a case where the wish of the patient was to reduce his own sex drive so as to better be able to control himself.

 

[BlindSheep]

goofyjim:

What is unchaste about ssa in and of itself? I do not act out and never have but have struggled with ssa. I don’t think I need medication to change that. I for one am growing weary of all these threads from both the right and the left. I would feel more comfortable if we stopped discussing it and the only ones that knew what I was thinking were God, myself, and my confessor.

Goofyjim -
If you are able to control yourself, then that’s great. I wasn’t talking about people who can control themselves, but about people who can’t, or who claim they can’t.

 

[BlindSheep]

Prodigal_Son:

That’s precisely why I disagree with this whole line of reasoning. Sexual desire is the best thing going here – there is nothing wrong with the intensity of desire. Only, from a Catholic viewpoint, the object of desire.

You make a good point. It is the object of the desire that is disordered in SSA, rather than just the fact of having sexual desire. However, I wonder if it’s possible to separate the two. I may be abnormal, but I usually experience sexual desire as a reaction to the person it is directed at, rather than as a sort of free-floating, preexisting desire which I choose to direct toward one person or another. Maybe it’s different for other people, or for men, I wouldn’t know.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

BlindSheep:

You make a good point. It is the object of the desire that is disordered in SSA, rather than just the fact of having sexual desire. However, I wonder if it’s possible to separate the two. I may be abnormal, but I usually experience sexual desire as a reaction to the person it is directed at, rather than as a sort of free-floating, preexisting desire which I choose to direct toward one person or another. Maybe it’s different for other people, or for men, I wouldn’t know.

I, like some others in the conversation, have experienced some strong same-sex attractions. It is not, as you say, free-floating desire that I direct toward men. Rather, it is a psychological fixation that is caused by some very deeply rooted problems in my identity.

As I’ve worked with a Christian counselor, I’ve found that something he keeps repeating is that I have to accept my “sexuality,” and work with it. He does *not * mean that I have to accept that I am “gay.” I’m not.

He means that I need to accept that I have a very strong and good force within me, a sexual force. Because I am subject to sin, Satan has seized on this force, and tried to direct it – he wants me to sin, and he wants me to hate myself for it.

But if I were to decrease my capacity for desire, I would not experience problems from my distorted attractions, but they would still be there. The lack of symptoms would mask the real crisis within me. I would have rejected sexuality itself, but never had to reject my concupisence – my tendency to sin.

Think of the word “sexual orientation” for a moment. God gave us the force of sex, to draw us into relationship with one person, to draw us into relationship with Him. When we “orient” ourselves wrongly, we can go WAY off track. But if we take away the ability for sex to move us, we will not go anywhere – and we might still have been facing the wrong direction.

 

[crusader4life]

Feanaro's Wife:

I think you missed the point. The OP was talking about using a med (like an antidepressant) that has the effect of decreasing sex drive for people who suffer from SSA. I don’t think anyone mentioned treating SSA with drugs…just the sexual desire.

Malia

I thought I understood the question. Then why was the topic of SSA brought up when the question can be applied to everyone? For your saying the question is basically this: Is it all right to be perscribed medicine to treat a sexual drive in order to be chaste? Am I right? Or did I miss something?

Anywhy…like you were saying, I was more referring to the a question talking about calming down a homosexual desire, not just the sex drive in general.

I clear my previous entry though. I still don’t think it could necessarily help them. Like I said before, there’s no scientific evidence of homosexuality. It’s a way of thinking (or acting) that is unnaturally and continually introduced to or practiced by someone until it seems natural and involuntary. Remember that we’re naturally attracted to the opposite sex (but experiences and influences can change all that). Now, some of our hormones can (may?) be triggered voluntarily. And from practicing certain (homosexual) acts and thoughts so many times it becomes habitual and almost involuntary. A sexual desire is something naturally caused and can be scientifically treated. I’m not so sure that taming the drive could help tame the skewed homosexual attraction. The only way (that I’m aware of) to help this situation out is psych help and a continual effort to break the habit/s. Just because someone’s drive is medicated does not mean the patient won’t feel attracted to someone.

 

[Fortiterinre]

Prodigal_Son:

I, like some others in the conversation, have experienced some strong same-sex attractions.

Prodigal, this being the case, I think it’s a little harsh to use the term “cop out” in your earlier post. In my experience as a counselor, I find that one secret about anti-depressants is that their ability to lower sex drive can be a blessing for all kinds of people in our over-sexed society. Single people on anti-depressants often become less worried about finding someone, less distracted about sex, and more able to focus on other positive things. I’ve had people lose weight, go back to school, get promoted, etc., and THEN meet someone and realize that marriage could be in their future. The sex drive “side effect” is almost always a problem for married people who may be depressed in part about marital problems. “Gay” people (and I grimace that I am having no success getting people to avoid this term) will not legitimately “meet someone” or get married. Why should they be subject to life-long sexual temptation in ways that are greatly reduced for those who have the blessings or even opportunities of a strong marriage? What you call a “cop out,” I call humbly recognizing a weakness. Are appetite supressants a cop out for those who are obese? Is a wheelchair a weakness for a senior citizen who has trouble walking?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Fortiterinre:

“Gay” people (and I grimace that I am having no success getting people to avoid this term) will not legitimately “meet someone” or get married. Why should they be subject to life-long sexual temptation in ways that are greatly reduced for those who have the blessings or even opportunities of a strong marriage? What you call a “cop out,” I call humbly recognizing a weakness. Are appetite supressants a cop out for those who are obese? Is a wheelchair a weakness for a senior citizen who has trouble walking?

Why do you even use the term “gay”? There is no such thing, in my experience. There are strong dispositions, influenced by many things, but these dispositions – contrary to your statement – do not stand in the way of marriage. Sexual attraction is meant to be attached to a person, not a gender.

I have always found both women and men physically attractive. This attraction, in itself, had no moral component; it just was. When I allowed either attraction to become lust, I was sinning.

When I found the right girl, I married her. I “legitimately” met someone and got married.

If I had been on drugs to reduce sexual attraction, it would have cut both ways. Perhaps, such a drug would have been acceptable for a time, to help me out of serious sin. But for regular living (post-“detox”), the drug would act as a crutch. I would have been unable to really court my bride, because sexuality is so integral to the whole process.

And sexuality is not just integral to the marital relationship. The Catechism:

Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others.

I think that, in part, the very hormone of testosterone is being spoken of here. It is a force to be reckoned with, a dangerous force, a messy force – but a force given by God. If you decrease it (barring a diagnosable chemical imbalance), you are decreasing the man’s ability to be a man.

 

[loganjames]

Being Gay is not wrong. However, we live in a society that is very judgmental. A society that encourages the false concept that there is a certain way we all should be, and this concept does not embrace individuality or diversity. Because it is human nature for people to feel the need to be accepted, people often lie about who they are, or try to change who they really are in order to be accepted by others. This is one of the reasons why some Gay people are dishonest about their sexuality. Some Gay men still try to live a heterosexual life and in some cases they marry women and bring children into the world, but they are not being true to who they really are. In some cases, these men continue to be with men and live double lives.

James
Gay Networking Site

 

[slywakka250]

If anyone wants an easy way to lower sex drive, just take an ssri antidepressant. . I take Celexa, which for starters works wonders for my OCD thoughts and anxiety and panic, also dramatically decreases my sex drive.

I can live with this, but I don’t think it is a good thing at all, as some have suggested on this thread. If you are able to have a high sex drive, I think you are blessed. you can use all that energy to do all sorts of things. non-sexual and sexual. it is a life force. it is vitality. why seek to give it up. God gave it to us. You are gaining nothing by eliminating your sex drive, but an integral part of what it means to be human. With my decreased sex drive, I lose a lot of the joy in life, am more tired, and my emotions are dumbed down. so much is lost, though its worth it to me to be free of anxiety, if you can have a high sex drive, go for it I say

 

[Newbie2]

Matt. 5:27-30:

27 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
28 But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into Gehenna.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into Gehenna.

We know that Christ did not mean that when confronted with sexual temptation, that we should…cut off…um…certain body parts.

The point he makes is that we need to do everything we can to avoid sin.

So, in the hypothetical posed by the OP, does it not stand to reason that IF a person felt that they needed medication to help them avoid sin, that they should take it?

There are, of course, some presuppositions:

1. That the person has received some guidance from a priest, a counselor, a psycologist, a psychiatrist or a combination thereof.
2. That the person has tried counseling and it alone simply has not worked.
3. That the person is not taking unwise health risks of said medication.
4. That the person is seeking ongoing help/guidance to gain control of their sexual actions.
5. That the meds are not simply a “quick fix”…i.e. they’d rather just take a pill than to do the work of trying to change their behavior.

I would pose the question as to the moral difference in taking such a medication and taking another type of medication for the same problem. Let’s say the hypothetical person is suffering from depression, which manifests itself in an inability to control their sexual activity. Treating the depression with appropriate meds might addresss the issue and solve the problem. Problem solved, different meds, same moral question.

The other thing that has been mentioned and bears repeating is what would be the difference between “meds for gays” and “meds for straights” who have the same issue: inability to control their inappropriate and sinful sexual activity? Morally speaking, homosexual sex is gravely sinful, so is fornication. Homosexual inclination is not sinful. So I see no moral difference if the scenario is changed to “meds for straights”.

Long story short, I see that under certain circumstances, it’s not morally objectionable.