Meet and greet before penitential rite?

[benedictgal]

Hi, new here. To disobey Rome is not equal to disobeying God. That said, at my parish we do the meet and greet thing for special occassions only, i.e. Easter Sunday, Christmas Midnight and Day, etc. Those are times when we are likely to have visitors who may or may not be returning to the church they grew up in. It saddens me to see how many people are under the misperseption that the Catholic Mass is strickly a sad and somber affair. The Mass is supposed to be a Celebration. That’s why we say it is celebrated by Fr. so and so.
I’m sorry you feel this is always a time to guilt trip your fellow Catholics. Maybe that’s just one of the reasons so many young people are still leaving our Church in droves.

Welcome aboard and be prepared for an interesting ride.

Now, to a certain extent there is some validity in what you are saying. Howver, you’ve got to remember a couple of things. While the Mass is indeed a celebration, it is something that is completely out of the ordinary. It is the Church’s highest prayer and it requires solemnity, dignity and sobriety. There is joy in the Mass; however, it takes on more of a deeper, sublime nature.

The second thing is that even though you didn’t mention this per se, the Church has a much different understanding of worship than the Protestant ecclesial communities. These groups only have an elongated word service, with a lengthy homily and songs thrown in for good measure. The Church, however, has the Sacrifiical element. At every Mass, we are just as present at Calvary as the Blessed Mother and Sts. John and Mary Magdalene. God lifts the veil of time and space. Furthermore, the veil between heaven and earth is slightly lifted at every Mass and we stand in the Divine Magesty of God.

Meeting and greeting inside the Church diminishes that dimension. The Mass is about our worshipping God as a community, but, it is not a meet and greet time. Meeting and greeting can happen out in the vestibule before Mass begins or after Mass is finished in the parish hall. We are entering into sacred time. We are entering into God’s time.

Remember that the first three commandments have to do with love for God. Also, recall that the Lord’s first request to Pharoah was not that the Hebrew slaves be freed, but, that they be allowed to journey three days to Mt. Sinai to worship Him. Correct worship is very imprtant to God. He didn’t spend significant amounts of time spelling out to Moses how, when and in what manner this was to be done. Every time Israel deviated from true worship, the results were disastrous (Babylonian captivity, foreign invasion, etc).

Furthermore, the Church receives the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass directly from Christ himself, as Cardinal Arinze constantly points out. The rubrics and norms are important in order to preserve the integrity of the Church’s supreme act of prayer.

I don’t know if you’ve read any of the writings of our Holy Father when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, but, they offer an excellent explanation as to why the Church does what she does and why it is important that solemnity and sobriety be maintained.

As far as your remarks concerning disobeying Rome, you might recall that Jesus gave St. Peter (and his successors) the authority to bind and loose. This authority is recognized in heaven because of Jesus’ promise.

Furthermore, regarding young people (or people, in general), leaving the Church in droves, there is more to the story than that. One of the underlying factors is that there is a lack of proper catechesis. Unfortunately, there are some who think that catechesis ends after the Sacrament of Confirmation has been conferred. That is not true. We can never learn enough about ouf Faith. Others may not have received a strong enough foundation at home or in CCD programs. Still others may have received some confusing doctrinal instruction in youth programs. And, others may not agree with all of the Church’s teachings and leave.

 

[Bro_Joshua]

Many innovations, inclding the meet & greet, have been justified or explained by saying we are trying to form a community. My argument to that is that the community is already formed. We would not know to meet at a church or for Mass or anything else if we were not already a community.

Whether or not I happen to know the names of persons sitting next to me does not change the fact that we are already a community. The forcus of our community is what comes into play. I think I am of average intellect - past testing suggest high average. I am unable to retain the names of who sits next to me as we change pew partners 55 or what ever times a year just counting the Sundays and the non-Sunday days of obligation.

Regardless if we meet & greet, or leave it out, our purpose and focus as a community does not change. If our relationship with God in formal Worship and ceremony depended on meeting & greeting and retaining the names, this Church would have faded away in the first couple years of its existance.

I think every parish should come up with practical, non-obligatory means of providing for more socializing – but it the proper place and time. Meet and greet reminds me of the pop-group-therapy of the late 60’s and 70’s. A truly modern Church should be able to move on from those games and experiments.

 

[musikman1]

Hi,

I’m the “new kid in town,” so if my reasoning seems simplistic, please forgive. I’ll eventually get into the proper “swing of things.”

RE: Meet and greet

I personally find the “lack of community” expressed by some with the Catholic Church is actually a benefit, NOT a drawback.

Q: Have any of you ever visited a non-Catholic church as a guest of a friend, or for a “community thing,” concert or what-have-you?

As a non-member of that particular community, the fact that they DO all “know one another” confirms a definate feeling of being an “outsider.” Everyone knows everyone, community seems to be the “marketing plan” to keep “paying folks” coming back. “Come here, and you too, can be a part of OUR family!”

Surely it is a subtle coloring, but it is a definate feeling that permeates the situation.

Especially, consider the “come to the altar” part of typical Baptist worship service. The preacher exhorts the public to “come to the altar” and “give your life over to Jesus Christ,” et al.

During THIS particular section of their service, again very subtlely, you (as the Catholic in this den of non-Catholics), can probably see that “all of the buddies” of this particular congregation probably nudge a look in your direction. Since you’re the “newbie,” SURELY your soul requires their particular brand of salvation.

• Catholic Worship

In any Catholic Church that I have ever visted in my (mumblemumble) years upon this earth, I have never felt out of place, uncomfortable nor as the “new prey” requiring these worshiper’s salvation.

As the Church as an edifice, and through our teaching, we see the Celebration of the Mass as a solemn and reverent event. It’s NOT a time nor place to “make friends,” “become a community,” or any of that other “stuff.” It is a time to be contemplative, to allow our intellect and even our very being to be elevated in prayer, worship and humble acceptance of the Sacrifice.

RECAP:

Sorry, my wife always tells me I tend to get “wordy” when I get passionate. Just talk to me about “saving money” in education by cutting music programs sometime… (smile)

So basically, just in this one person’s opinion, the reverence and contemplation that occurs in the Catholic Rites are NOT because Catholics are “unfeeling,” “cold,” or other terms I have heard over the years from my non-Catholic friends.

It is precisely the reverence and holiness that one approaches the Celebration of the Mass that pulls one away from the others in preference to the striving to become closer to one with the Lord.

There’s time for socializing in places that are FOR socializing. The Celebration of the Eucharist just doesn’t seem (to me, your mileage may surely differ!) to be that time nor place. It is for that reason that I’m not terribly fond of the early “meet and greet.” It takes me time to get “into” my contemplative mindset, and it’s not meaningful (for me) to be pulled back into “socializing” before such a personal retreat.

OK, my first post, let me have it. (grin)

All my best,

Rick

 

[benedictgal]

Yesterday evening, I had to fill in as a lector for our late Mass. I was dreading it because I didn’t want to have to go through the “hi, how are you” thing that we do when our pastor celebrates Mass. Mind you, I really, really like my pastor a lot and he means well. He’s a good man. However, the idea of building community right before we enter Mass is a little distracting for many of the reasons others have listed in this thread.

My PV wound up being the celebrant. The lights were dimmed and he entered Church with his breviary, knelt in front of the tabernacle and prayed his office. If there was any murmuring going on before he entered, it stopped the minute he walked in, knelt down and prayed.

It really helped to set the tone for the Mass because he reminded us that were in the presence of the Lord. Even the cantor/guitarist toned down his warm-up a bit. It was as though we were all on the same page.

Now whatever greeting was to occur happened outside in the vestibule as people walked into church. However, once they entered the church, it was nice and quiet.

Yes, we are a community because we don’t worship in a vaccuum; however, we don’t need the externals of fellowship because we are united in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Just look at the prayers. That’s reinforcement enough.

 

[Bro_Joshua]

Hi,

I’m the “new kid in town,” so if my reasoning seems simplistic, please forgive. I’ll eventually get into the proper “swing of things.”

RE: Meet and greet

I personally find the “lack of community” expressed by some with the Catholic Church is actually a benefit, NOT a drawback.

Q: Have any of you ever visited a non-Catholic church as a guest of a friend, or for a “community thing,” concert or what-have-you?

As a non-member of that particular community, the fact that they DO all “know one another” confirms a definate feeling of being an “outsider.” Everyone knows everyone, community seems to be the “marketing plan” to keep “paying folks” coming back. “Come here, and you too, can be a part of OUR family!”

I don’t recall it put that way, but I agree with you. Ours is a long history of Liturgy and ritual, ceremony. There are situations when a visitor is given a cold shoulder or not realy wanted in certain parishes, but as a general rule I’d say visitors are welcome in most parishes - but without the fanfare. If a non-Catholic tells me they want to see one of our Masses, I either invite them to go with me, and thus they can sit with some one they kknow and feel comfortable, or I let them know that the regular Sunday Masses at Parishes are open to ALL, just go in and perhaps figure out who is an Usher and say you not Catholic, just visiting and would like to know where to sit. Most of the time the ushers will be accoomidating, or some other lay person will over hear and will attend to make the visitor comfortable and relaxed. I doubt the forced meet & greet would do much better, in fact I’ve seen it go sour in a couple instances becasue the person next to the visitor is not at all prepared to do much of anything for the visitor. Its was planned to meet, geet, give name and then back to business in short order.

Some parishes have Official Greeters. Done well with good training and regular meetings, the Offcial Greeters (like an usher), is attentive to what the parish can do for the visitor if the visitor wants to do more than simply attend.

Not only do Catholics not have an “Altar Call,” we are not suppose to give Communion to non-Catholics (in what might look like an alter call to the unsuspecting). Its good a visitor gets the correct picture from the get start. Eiuther they will like it and inquire furture, or find their couriosity is satisfied and go their way without pressure. The movements and art of our Liturgy is, in part, a tried and true method of teaching the Mysteries of God.

 

[Paul1977]

You can give a greeting, it’s just isn’t in the Roman Missal. Doing anything that the Missal says you don’t, or even doing something that is not mentioned in the Missal is disobedience to Rome. By doing so, do you think you’re worthy of the Sacrifice? To disobey Rome is to disobey God.

I agree. We are the universal Church founded by Jesus Christ.

 

[jneecetx]

When I was in high school - which was before Vatican II - as a non-Catholic I attended a Mass with my then girlfriend. While I did not understand a thing that took place, I was rocked by the sincerity of the lay people. On Christmas Eve at a mid-night Mass, ten minutes prior to the start of the service in a packed Santuary, you could have heard a pin drop.

When we enter the House of the Lord the worship service has started, period. Personal preparation before the Holy Eucharist requires silence. ‘Meet and Greets’ belong outside the Santuary, before and/or after Mass.

‘The Lord is in His Holy Temple. Let all the earth keep silence before Him’.

 

[Bro_Joshua]

When I was in high school - which was before Vatican II - as a non-Catholic I attended a Mass with my then girlfriend. … On Christmas Eve at a mid-night Mass, ten minutes prior to the start of the service in a packed Santuary, you could have heard a pin drop.

When we enter the House of the Lord the worship service has started, period. Personal preparation before the Holy Eucharist requires silence. ‘Meet and Greets’ belong outside the Santuary, before and/or after Mass.

‘The Lord is in His Holy Temple. Let all the earth keep silence before Him’.

Your witness verifies a long understanding of the decor and composure of the Mass and Church buildings as a teaching element. Of course the Mass is much more - but I am speaking of this particular element - teaching. The icons, windows, and the awesomeness of quiet teaches Mystery. A number of ancient Catholic and Orthodox teachers said the greatest way to teach these Mysteries is to simply let the person enter and see and be filled with this Great Divine Mystery, the Eucharistic Mystery.

What we see in a new place says a lot. Is this place mostly about us working salvation or about us seeking The One who saves? The Many (Mammon) or the One? There is a fountain that never fails to satisfy, where as the many only increases our dissatisfactions.

By all means be fraternal with one another, loving and freindly. This can be done without a staged show. We are formed as a community - that is how we know to come together as we do. Now let us focus on the Object of our Community - The Lord.

 

[jeanannemarie]

No, we don’t do this meet and greet stuff at our parish. I wouldn’t like it if we did. If I wanted to do Protestant things, I would go to a Protestant church. I am becoming increasingly more conservative, the older I get. Sounds like most of you don’t like it either. My priest always says “Socializing belongs in the fellowship hall. Move it out there.” I have been reprimanded by the priest twice because I merely answered a question and I was the one he saw talking. I don’t mind, tho. I love our priest because he tries to do what is right, even when it makes him unpopular.

 

[redwfan]

Please Pray for me, I feel the Catholic Church has let me down with the communication and Bible study. I feel most Catholics do not know the bible. Calvary Chapel bible studies on the way to work they seem to make sence to me.

 

[benedictgal]

Please Pray for me, I feel the Catholic Church has let me down with the communication and Bible study. I feel most Catholics do not know the bible. Calvary Chapel bible studies on the way to work they seem to make sence to me.

Dr. Scott Hahn has an online bible study. He’s a convert who is very orthodox. You can find it at www.scotthahn.com. You can also watch EWTN’s broadcast of Reasons for our Hope and Memoirs of St. Peter. Reasons for Our Hope centers on St. Luke’s gospel, while Memoirs concentrates on St. Mark’s.

You may also want to check your diocese’s adult religious education program. My PV has been teaching courses on the bible. I’ve taken two and am now on my third.

Now, going back to the meet and greet issue. We gather together not to meet and greet each other, but, to praise and adore God. Worship is the most important thing that we do together as a community. But, it’s not about the community. It’s about God. It’s about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

While we don’t worship in a vaccum, we do not make ourselves the focus of the Mass. God is.

 

[Bro_Joshua]

Please Pray for me, I feel the Catholic Church has let me down with the communication and Bible study. I feel most Catholics do not know the bible. Calvary Chapel bible studies on the way to work they seem to make sence to me.

You have my prayers. The issue is vague as stated, but then, this might not be the page to get into details. The major portion of the Bible is read every day, including Sundays and the other days of obligation. Although that doesn’t constitute Bible Study class, it has made the overwhelming majority of Catholics more familiar with the Bible in proportion to most other Denominations. We use the whole Bible. Most diocesan offices can probably come up with a number of places available for Scripture Study. How to map these classes out in accord with your work and home obligations may be a challenge - but it can probably be worked out eventually. There’s a number of on line Catholic Studies on Scriptures. The Bible comes alive in such varied ways on the internet. Not all are set up specifically as Bible Study, but the information and application of the Holy Word is fabulous. There are hermatage sights with scriptural application, Marian sites,and do an engin search on “homeletics”, but first check my spelling on that. Those are sites Deacons and Priests enjoy as they prepare sermons and parish activity based on the Bible and each day’s or Sunday’s readings. the avenues are limitless.

 

[johntrajan]

i am disturbed (as a new joinee here) to see that people find it difficult to greet on another. Anyhow, i am from an asian country, where greeting people is very common. the way we do it here is just turn around, sy peace be with you to whoever you see or can see just with a smile and a nod. Normally it has an eye contact an a return smile in acknowledgement. it is just done within few minutes. People normally meet up after church and do have that get together, chat and catch up with things. living in a small community does help. Everyone tends to know each other and tend to be close to each other.

 

[kathielee]

Welcome aboard and be prepared for an interesting ride.

Now, to a certain extent there is some validity in what you are saying. Howver, you’ve got to remember a couple of things. While the Mass is indeed a celebration, it is something that is completely out of the ordinary. It is the Church’s highest prayer and it requires solemnity, dignity and sobriety. There is joy in the Mass; however, it takes on more of a deeper, sublime nature.

I wish I could say things like that! Well said. I know these things in my mind but putting them in words like that…no can do. I am not sure which part of Scripture it is, but this reminds me of the time when everyone was getting all party-like…and was it Peter or Paul who told them if they want to have a meal and festivities, to eat before they come. Even then the importance of solemnity was solid in the teachings of the Apostles.

Kathie

 

[Bro_Joshua]

i am disturbed (as a new joinee here) to see that people find it difficult to greet on another. Anyhow, i am from an asian country, where greeting people is very common. the way we do it here is just turn around, sy peace be with you to whoever you see or can see just with a smile and a nod. Normally it has an eye contact an a return smile in acknowledgement. it is just done within few minutes. People normally meet up after church and do have that get together, chat and catch up with things. living in a small community does help. Everyone tends to know each other and tend to be close to each other.

I’m not sure how close a comparisson it is between USA and your home place. But, I think most of our Churches in the USA go along with a smile or a nod as we enter Church or happen to catch someone’s eye before Mass. Our more involved greetings and socializing is after Mass also. I think the conflict here in the States is the command to stand and make formal greetings and introductions a moment before Mass begins or as soon as Mass begins. For me, its a disturbance of prayer. We have a ritualistic, ceremonial liturgical Church worship and the command to stand and greet is so artificial for many of us. Small communities know each other well and generally prefere to socialize after Mass (or before going into Church for Mass). Larger Communities accept that a certain cordialness can be exteneded, but that intimacy is not practical or will not happen with all members. Its is like how folks are more expressive in passing each other in a small town or village, but must continue their way in a large metropolitan city.

I compare, (with limitaitons of course), well developed rituals and ceremonies of other groups. They come together in peace and good will to each other, but the central focus of their rituals and ceremonies are Spirit centered, God centered. Their social sharings, food sharings and such are done before or after the sacred ceremony. This is even done around formal civil events, memorial services, courts of law, and theator or opera. Its a reflection on true human social development, no matter how varied this is done from culture to culture.

I think the priests or lay persons placed in charge wish to over come the strangeness of parishes, especially in larger populations, but their method is superficial at best, and can be rather agitating. I met and geeted some folks just two weeks ago upon orders of the Pastor and the lay person who gave some wierd explanation of why we came to Mass that day. I do not recall the names of anyone I met. With slightly declining hearing common to those of us over a certain age, most of what was said to me or around me in those few moments of nervous and hesitant exchange I could not understand.

I did enjoy the coffe after Mass and I can remember the names of at least a dozen folks and perhaps more. I know how many kids they have, and I still pray for those I was asked to pray for (dying loved ones, separated family members, etc). I just don’t seem to be able to catch on to all that in a proper attentive way a moment or two before or as Mass begins. I think what people want to tell me is very important and so I think that should be reserved for after Mass.

Meanntime – I have no problem with a polite smile or nod of recognition as we prepare for Mass — just not on command in an artificial setting.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

This thread is closed. Thank you all.