Mega Church Brand of Fundamentalism

[mozart-250]

Are there any mega church members here at CAF?

I would like to hear why they find this so attractive and alluring.

Well I am a member of a Vermont mega church. We have 350-400 members and two services a week. Pretty soon we will overrun our county.



(BTW mega church and fundamentalism really don’t go together)

 

[Cat]

There are a couple of misconceptions in this thread.

1. Most megachurches are not fundamentalist, they are evangelical. Big difference.
2. Most evangelical churches do not allow dancing in the church. I see Catholics joke about this, and if you’re just joking, it’s OK. But if you honestly think that evangelicals dance in the aisles, you are incorrect.
3. Megachurches exist to commercialize the Gospel (i.e., make money). On the contrary, many of the megachurches are big-time into charitable activities. The megachurch in our city organized and carried out the Katrina Aid Project–and our parish sent our youth group to help them out! It was a wonderful project involving millions of dollars of donated monies and thousands of people donating thousands of hours to help the victims of Katrina/Rita.

This megachurch recently spent thousands of dollars and involved several hundred people in helping clean up and remodel the PUBLIC schools in our city. These are just a few examples of the charitable things they get involved with.

So even though these church appear “wealthy,” they are giving the wealth away. And even though the pastors appear wealthy, in many of the megachurches, the Senior pastors receive no salary, but count on their books and personal speaking appearances for their personal income.

A megachurch is a tremendous risk for the pastors, as there is no denomination to help them out if they run into financial trouble.

Someone above asked why people go to megachurches. I had a conversation with a Protestant pastor (Evangelical Free Church in America) a year ago. **He said that these churches are great places to hide out and heal if you have been hurt by a church or by “Christians.” ** He said he is grateful for megachurches, because a lot of hurt Christians go to them for anonymity, and after a few years, they’re ready to come back to a traditional church again.

I think this is very possibly true. Evangelical churches can be exhausting to be involved with. When I was evangelical, I was involved with so many ministries that I was at church at least 5-6 days or evenings a week. (Often my children were with me, as my major ministries were children’s ministries.)

A lot of people simply burn out doing so much. In the past, these people just quit–stopped coming–stayed home and watched wrestling and real-estate shows on TV.

Now, they can quit, rest for a few months, and then head for the megachurch and let someone ELSE minister to THEM!

I can sympathize. Although I never burned out, I know plenty of evangelical Christians who did burn out.

And I’ll bet that a lot of Catholics who head to megachurches have been “hurt” in some way in the Catholic Church. God forbid, it might have been some kind of abuse. But more than likely, it’s just the routine conflicts that occur in any large family. Unfortunately, some people are more hurt by these conflicts than others. When they see a chance to leave, they take it.

The article that Erich posted is FANTASTIC!

I would also suggest that Catholic parishes really work on showing practical love to all parishioners. Try to become the “Friendliest Parish In Town,” not just hand-shaking friendly, but true, deep love friendly. Make sacrifices to reach out to your fellow parishioners. Love will stop people from heading for the megachurch.

 

[Brian_C]

Yeah, we’ve covered the fundamentalist aspect already. I agree that there are certainly some good things that go on at megachurches. But they are waaay to accommodating to society for my tastes. You can have an active parish or church without it being a megachurch. Our parish is ALWAYS doing something. You never see the parking lot empty-be it Bible study, rosary groups, book club, prayer groups, teen activities, charity, or adoration (which we do 24 hrs a day). We are the largest parish in our diocese. Yet we do not have a megachurch atmosphere and we aren’t pushy. The neighboring Baptist church that I attended a bit before converting is quite the opposite. They have torn down half the neighborhood to make parking lots and even tried to get a street closed so the could have a continuous, wal-mart-esque parking lot. The only thing remotely imposing that we’ve done is petition the city council to get the stretch of street in front of our parish dedicated to the memory of JPII. I’ve found this to be a halmark of many large evangelical churches in my area-a Borg-like “Resistance is futile” attitude.

 

[Hellisreal]

Hiding out… interesting! I would not have thought that would be a motivation.

I do know that the one close to here really makes a point of mandatory 10 percent tithing. Its a topic that has even been discussed in the religion section of the paper here (which is poorly covered and confusing with misinformation) but, it seems some members are very upset with that and list it as the one thing they would like to see change in their church.

 

[goodcatholicman]

I think one of the main draws I have seen is similiar to the post regarding “hiding out”. I have had many, many protestant friends that church stop almost continuously. Every three or four years, they leave the Methodist or Baptist of whatever for a different church down the road. Perhaps for the preacher, maybe due to conflict but they never really seem satisfied. To me that is the main issue with the protestant movement in general. There is not one cohesive attribute among them when you boil it down. A mega church seems to provide a non-denominational type atmosphere. It is so watered down in substance (ever seen Joel Olsteen) that there is very very little anyone can argue about in terms of doctrine or otherwise. I see this type of church succeeding but not with the same people. The people in the pews will continue their journey through the great church mall…until they open the door to the Catholic Church (I pray)!

 

[Cat]

I think one of the main draws I have seen is similiar to the post regarding “hiding out”. I have had many, many protestant friends that church stop almost continuously. Every three or four years, they leave the Methodist or Baptist of whatever for a different church down the road. Perhaps for the preacher, maybe due to conflict but they never really seem satisfied. To me that is the main issue with the protestant movement in general. There is not one cohesive attribute among them when you boil it down. A mega church seems to provide a non-denominational type atmosphere. It is so watered down in substance (ever seen Joel Olsteen) that there is very very little anyone can argue about in terms of doctrine or otherwise. I see this type of church succeeding but not with the same people. The people in the pews will continue their journey through the great church mall…until they open the door to the Catholic Church (I pray)!

I agree with this. One of the men in RCIA at our parish two years ago church-hopped until he ended up in the megachurch ,where he spent two years “recovering” from church! Then he realized that he was getting pablum from the pulpit, so he started looking around again. But since he had already tried so many other churches, he decided to give the Catholic Church a try–and now he’s Catholic!

I honestly think those who church-hop are more like to be led to Catholicism.

They are honestly searching for Jesus, and Jesus said that those who seek shall find. It is harder for someone who is entrenched in their Protestant church to even conceive of investigating Catholicism–it would be disloyal of them! Besides, they have so many responsibilities at their church that they don’t have time to investigate another church! And many of them have family and friends at their churches, and it would be heartbreaking to even consider leaving them.

I think that the Catholic Church ought to be ready to receive all the refugees from the megachurches! I don’t think we have anything to worry about.

 

[twosweetgirls]

I honestly think those who church-hop are more like to be led to Catholicism.

They are honestly searching for Jesus, and Jesus said that those who seek shall find.

Ain’t THAT the truth?? That was totally me. Now look where I ended up.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I am a member of a 4-5000 per sunday mega-church… What I can tell you is that many of you are sadly misinformed on alot of these churches. With your happy clappy feel good comments! trust me we know that Satan is a deceiver and can use emotion very effectively. Emotions or feelings of piety are not something to build upon as an authentic method of worship or for determining spiritual presence. Satan can duplicate the supernatural emotions/feelings,but he cannot duplicate the “fruit” of the Spirit… Our church is the most theologically sound and scriptural worship centers I’ve ever been to, our head pastor has a doctorate in theology. And speaking of fruit…Christ opens many doors in many ways, for example I recently attended a massive outdoor Christian music festival in Sioux Falls and saw many many commit to a life in Christ, if even a tenth of those who committed actually did so with a contrite heart repent and let our LORD be the Lord of their life then I’d say YEE HAW depopulation of hell and populating heaven, THAT is the fruit my friends, lets be careful of what kind of fruit inspectors we are!

 

[Bennie_P]

For sure, all mega churches are not the same. I use to be a member of a mega church before coming into the Full communion with the Church. Though it has some the features mention here, coffee shops, book store, video and praise music . It has things such as a prison ministry, small-group communities, women’s ministry, men’s ministry, youth ministry, homelss ministry, recovery ministry, college style bible classes, etc. - On Sunday moring, worship service may seem like a show, but they are out spreading the gospel and doing corporal works of mercy.

They have it wrong about liturgy and mass, but they are doing what we all in Christ are called to do, spread the gospel and serve Christ through serving others. The church is envangelical but the pastorship is not centered on one person, nor one personality. There are a lot Catholics that had fallen away from Church that have become members of that church, and when I joined the Catholic Church it bewildered many of them. I’m still in regular contect with certain members of the church and some of the minisiters. Many of the ex-Catholics are reconsidering their choices - I don’t think we should be to quick to judge all the separated brothers in one breath, for something is going on and we cannot be the judge how God is speaking to different people and preparing them. Myself I cannot see any other way to worship on Sunday except at mass with the liturgy and the Eucharist and those praise type worship services don’t do it for me anymore. But as a Catholic I see so many Catholics on Sunday morning that don’t seem to get what I get from of the mass, for so many of them seem to see mass as a drudgery and mere obligation. I think as a Catholic I need to be more concerned to express my love, joy and wonderment I find in the mass to those that I attend mass with having hope that the Lord can use me to show them that He is truly alive in the Catholic Church. This I need to do more then to worry about how He talks to those that attend Mega Churches. People looking for Christ tend to go where he appears to them, I don’t think He spent his time pointing and saying I’m not over there…

 

[bpbasilphx]

Has anyone but me noticed that you never see the mega-churches–especially those who preach holy prosperity–in the poorer parts of town?

Invariably they are in white suburbs.

Why is that?

 

[Syele]

A Mega Church is not a “brand of fundamentalism” it’s simply a very large church. The fact it is large tells us nothing really about it. From that we don’t know what denomination it is, we don’t have a single clue about their theology, we don’t know who is leading it, we don’t know their income or what they do with their money, all we know is that over 2,000 people a week go there - sometimes more or less depending on who is using the term, so we aren’t too clear on that either. maybe you have two megachurches in your area and they are both one way or another. That still tells us nothing about the other megachurches not in your immediate area.

Jesus preached to 5,000 and fed them lunch too. Benny Hinn has preached to thousands at once too. Doesn’t make them equal.

 

[goodcatholicman]

I would have to say I believe many of the mega churches, along with that particular style of worship is a very “fundamentalist” approach. When you are non-denominational, you have to have something that binds you together. Sure, I have it said that what binds us together is Jesus. That is certainly true but many many issues of doctrine and dgma don’t get resolved by saying that. Which Bible do we use? Is it okay to have ordained women ministers? Homosexuals? Is Baptism a sacrament or an afterthought? What about the Eucharist? Is it “Real” or is it just a “remembrance” supper? What about the age of Baptism? Confirmation? Tithing? Dress? Abortion okay or not? What about divorce? All of these questions have to have an answer. There is no way around it. Therefore, the approach that these communities often take is to settle on a few basic “fundamentals” that can be agreed upon. This is the definition of being a fundamentalist. I have yet to see one of these type of communities that does not fit that description. Not that these places do not containt some truth, but surely not the FULLNESS OF TRUTH that is only found in the Catholic Church.


Mother Mary Pray for Us

 

[goodcatholicman]

Fundamentalist Christianity, or Christian fundamentalism, is a movement that arose mainly within British and American Protestantism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by conservative evangelical Christians, who, in a reaction to modernism, actively affirmed a fundamental set of Christian beliefs: the inerrancy of the Bible, Sola Scriptura, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the imminent return of Jesus Christ.

I challenge you to find a mega church that does not subscribe to the above as it’s only source of core beliefs.

 

[Bennie_P]

A Mega Church is not a “brand of fundamentalism” it’s simply a very large church. The fact it is large tells us nothing really about it. From that we don’t know what denomination it is, we don’t have a single clue about their theology, we don’t know who is leading it, we don’t know their income or what they do with their money, all we know is that over 2,000 people a week go there - sometimes more or less depending on who is using the term, so we aren’t too clear on that either. maybe you have two megachurches in your area and they are both one way or another. That still tells us nothing about the other megachurches not in your immediate area.

Jesus preached to 5,000 and fed them lunch too. Benny Hinn has preached to thousands at once too. Doesn’t make them equal.

Tele-evangelism and the Mega church movement might have some relationship, but I would not be to quick to throw all mega churches into the same sentence as “Benny Hinn”.

Has anyone but me noticed that you never see the mega-churches–especially those who preach holy prosperity–in the poorer parts of town?

Invariably they are in white suburbs.

Why is that?

The mega church I use to attend is in the upper class neighborhood of the city. Just three blocks from The Greek Orthodox Church and one mile from the largest(and richest) Catholic Church within the city. All in the Same neighborhood of the only Jewish temple in the city. Location of all four of them as nothing to do with the how they minister to the poor, or does it?

We have an Afro-American Baptist church (that is four blocks from my inner city parish church of 200-300 families) that has grown into a mega church, they have many ministries that are outreaches to the poor.

 

[Contarini]

I would have to say I believe many of the mega churches, along with that particular style of worship is a very “fundamentalist” approach.

Generally not, actually. Of course it depends on how you define fundamentalism. But the strict fundamentalists tend to be suspicious of anything with lots of followers and anything that is too contemporary.

When you are non-denominational, you have to have something that binds you together. Sure, I have it said that what binds us together is Jesus. That is certainly true but many many issues of doctrine and dgma don’t get resolved by saying that. Which Bible do we use? Is it okay to have ordained women ministers? Homosexuals? Is Baptism a sacrament or an afterthought? What about the Eucharist? Is it “Real” or is it just a “remembrance” supper? What about the age of Baptism? Confirmation? Tithing? Dress? Abortion okay or not? What about divorce? All of these questions have to have an answer. There is no way around it. Therefore, the approach that these communities often take is to settle on a few basic “fundamentals” that can be agreed upon. This is the definition of being a fundamentalist.

It may be yours, but it’s quite different from the definition most people use and it has no historical basis. “Fundamentalists” are not distinguished by their acceptance of only a few “fundamentals” as opposed to others who have a longer list. On the contrary, the term originally did refer to a short list of “fundamentals,” but this was proposed not as a way of bringing people together but as a way of distinguishing orthodox Christians from those who questioned the “fundamentals.” With the rejection of the term (and the associated hardline attitudes) by may of the heirs of the original “fundamentalists” (now preferring the term “evangelicals”), the term now generally applies to people who have a longer list of “fundamentals” than other Christians. For instance, people who believe in a strict definition of Biblical inerrancy as a fundamental. More broadly, what distinguishes fundamentalists from moderate evangelicals is their attitude to those who don’t accept their beliefs.

So your definition is pretty close to the opposite of the way the term generally functions today. People who agree on a short list of “basic doctrines” generally reject the term “fundamentalist,” which is used for those who insist on a much more extensive set of “fundamental” doctrines and base these doctrines on an allegedly literal interpretation of Scripture rather than on a historic tradition (i.e., conservative Lutherans and Calvinists, while “fundamentalists” by some definitions, are not quite the same because they have a much higher place for tradition and a much more sophisticated approach to Scripture and theology).

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I challenge you to find a mega church that does not subscribe to the above as it’s only source of core beliefs.

The definition you cite is somewhat outdated, since many of the heirs of the original fundamentalists rejected fundamentalism in the mid-20th century and adopted a more open approach to those with whom they differed, redefining themselves as “evangelicals” rather than “fundamentalists.” In the more liberal evangelical circles, some of the doctrines mentioned above (inerrancy, substitutionary atonement, and certainly premillenialism/dispensationalism) are rejected–other evangelicals would believe these things but would be willing to recognize people who reject them as brothers and sisters in Christ (this does not apply to the bodily resurrection and the virgin birth, of course). Fundamentalists insist on these things–and often on others as well–as being absolutely “fundamental” to the faith, and they insist on separation from those who do not believe them. For instance, evangelicals may be willing to remain in mainline denominations alongside liberals–fundamentalists are not.

Generally megachurches are evangelical rather than fundamentalist, though I am sure that there are fundamentalist megachurches. Because of their insistence on “separation,” fundamentalists tend to split from each other constantly, making it hard to build up a huge following.

Edwin

 

[Cat]

Has anyone but me noticed that you never see the mega-churches–especially those who preach holy prosperity–in the poorer parts of town?

Invariably they are in white suburbs.

Why is that?

Another stereotype. The megachurch in our city is in what is called a “transitional neighborhood.” In other words, it is declining and on its way to being “poor.” It is extremely diverse racially.

The presence of the megachurch has pumped some new life back into this deteriorating neighborhood. Restaurants and other businesses are clustering around the megachurch; these places provide jobs.

 

[Syele]

Tele-evangelism and the Mega church movement might have some relationship, but I would not be to quick to throw all mega churches into the same sentence as “Benny Hinn”.

Did you read my whole post? Or just that paragraph? I was saying you can’t talk about mega-Churches as a single group really because they are all drastically different. I was comparing Jesus and Benny Hinn as an example of two people who preached to large numbers of people at once and yet were so different.

 

[Cat]

I agree with this. One of the men in RCIA at our parish two years ago church-hopped until he ended up in the megachurch ,where he spent two years “recovering” from church! Then he realized that he was getting pablum from the pulpit, so he started looking around again. But since he had already tried so many other churches, he decided to give the Catholic Church a try–and now he’s Catholic!
I honestly think those who church-hop are more like to be led to Catholicism.

They are honestly searching for Jesus, and Jesus said that those who seek shall find. It is harder for someone who is entrenched in their Protestant church to even conceive of investigating Catholicism–it would be disloyal of them! Besides, they have so many responsibilities at their church that they don’t have time to investigate another church! And many of them have family and friends at their churches, and it would be heartbreaking to even consider leaving them.

I think that the Catholic Church ought to be ready to receive all the refugees from the megachurches! I don’t think we have anything to worry about.

Just wanted to let everyone know: we received word a few hours ago that this dear man died unexpectedly. Although he was in poor health due to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, he was not very old, and his widow is devastated by the loss of her beloved husband. All of us who knew him feel his loss and miss his enthusiasm for life and for the Lord and the Catholic Church. His testimony was always uplifting.

My husband had just emailed him this morning. We attended his Confimation Party just a few months ago. He was planning to help with RCIA this year.

God rest his soul. Please pray for his family.

 

[brosam]

We now have a budding mega church in our town and it is all the buzz. Fills the seats of a very large auditorium and sends video of the services to several other large mega branches of the church. The basis of the church appears to be a fundamental approach to Christianity where you are free to discern for yourself the meaning of the Bible as long as you believe these “fundamental” concepts. The services are major productions with mini plays, dynamic in-your-face sermons and lots and lots of music (a lot of it good I might add). The ministers of the this church are doing major evangelical pushes in the area and it is working! They have wooed away many Catholics in the area. Is this happening in your area? How do we combat this new style of feel-goodism? What are your thoughts about this approach? Is this type of worship what Jesus intended?

First of all, are you sure they’re fundamentalists? Because Roman Catholics tend to call most Christians “fundamentalists” whether they are or aren’t actually fundamentalists.

Second, I tend to not to believe that this is a fundamentalist church because what you describe is very much out of keeping with a fundamentalist church. I’ve been a fundamentalist for about twenty years and would be very, very surprised at a fundamentalist church doing what you’re describing in the way of plays and contemporary music.

Fundamentalist churches tend to be the ones very strong on solid Bible teaching and not “feel goodism.”

In fact, if you read any of the writings of the bigger fundamentalists today, they tend to preach against these things.

As far as “wooing” away Roman Catholics, we have several people in our church that came out of Roman Catholicism when they got saved.

We share the Gospel with Roman Catholics, same as we do with anyone.

One of our sister churches even has a man who was a Roman Catholic priest for many years who is now studying the scriptures in order to help start an outreach to Roman Catholics.