mega-churches......

[JustaServant]

from what I can see, the rise in the megachurch follows a social trend that anything labelled as ‘traditional’ is given the further label of ‘not cool’. Fact is that people now don’t want time-tested Church services with their centuries-old orders of service, prayers of devotion and the preserved beautiful languages such as Latin and medieval English. Society now is more materialistic and often wants things that look good rather than anything that might do good. So the flashy PAs, the big bands, the huge churches with their huge projectors come in and start taking over.

I’d also add a further trend: people now just don’t like the idea that they’re somehow guilty of something, to be told they’re sinful. You’ll notice that many of these churches promote ‘being buddies with God’ but the ideas of Hell, sin and Satan are brushed out of the picture as being ‘out of date’ or ‘not relevant now’. The idea of Confession or indeed any sort of responsibility on our part isn’t an idea that flies in these churches.

** These churches are like junk food: they satisfy an immediate need, but they don’t do anything for the body other than making it fat. Good food and good Church teachings make changes to the body that benefit it**.

I’ve been to the UK equivalent of megachurches and I didn’t like what I saw. I liked being a worship musician in one of these churches even less.

Bold mine.
The guy I mentioned in an earlier post who is so enamored with his MC has many personal problems and does not in the least come off as a christian. The young man needs a lot of prayer.
What his example shows is what is truly wrong with the mega-church model. Our supervisor, a Nazerene, invited him to go to his smaller more modest church, where he at least would be challenged on his lifestyle. Things the mega-church avoids because, to them, he is simply another warm body in thier pew (or theater seats).

 

[Cat]

I’m having a hard time with the tone of some of the posts in this thread. I see that one of my posts was deleted (uncharitable?). But honestly, I see a lot of comments that I would consider rather smug and judgmental.

There is a feeling of cool superiority and a lot of labelling, stereotyping, anecdotal information (my first post was anecdotal), and personal opinions that megachurches are strictly fluff and that the Christians who attend are merely looking for entertainment.

I don’t think these attitudes are helpful at all.

If we are convinced that the Catholic Church is the True Church of Jesus Christ, the Church that He established while on this earth, then why do we care about megachurches? What does it matter?

And most importantly, a lot of people who attend megachurches are Catholic. Why?

WHY did these Catholics leave Holy Mother Church and become associated with a non-Catholic fellowship, and why particularly a megachurch instead of a smaller fellowship?

I agree with JustaServant, BTW, that the small Protestant churches take a particularly hard hit when a megachurch comes to town, and often end up closing their doors permanently. If they can weather the onslaught financially, their people will eventually return (see my first post in this thread), but it’s often hard to keep the church going unless at least one fairly wealthy family increases their offerings and pays the basic bills.

The larger Protestant churches do not usually face closure, but they do suffer loss of key people and income. Catholic churches also face loss of people, but since so many Catholic churches do not offer a myriad of programs during the week and depend on their laypeople to run these programs, the lack of people is not usually noticed by anyone except the treasurer and priests, who see the decline in offerings due to attrition to the megachurch.

At any rate, I think that Catholics need to stop criticizing the megachurches and labelling them and those who attend them as fluffy, and instead, do a deep examination of WHY they are attracting people away from the Catholic Church.

One of the ideas that we need to purge from our mindset is that the megachurches are “fluffy.” Yes, the “seeker services” tend to be “Christianity-lite,” and give the impression that the megachurches are all about entertainment. But outside of the seeker services, there are a lot of smaller fellowships within the megachurch. The Christians are encouraged to attend weekly Bible studies and prayer circles. Yes, some of these are “lite.” But some aren’t lite at all, but very deep.

And although many of the people who attend megachurches are just looking for a place to “feel” good about themselves and God, there are PLENTY of hard-core evangelical and mainline Protestants, as well as devout and knowledgeable Catholics, who attend a megachurch because they have opportunities not only to study and learn more about God, but also to SERVE GOD and His people in these churches.

Megachurches aren’t just a lot of “sheep” who don’t know much; on the contrary, there are some really GOOD Christians who attend megachurches. We need to recognize that and not assume that all the megachurch attendees are just seeking a good cup of latte and a nice band.

One of the smaller Protestant churches that I attended lost dozens of our best teachers and workers when the megachurch came to town–these people wanted to be in a church where their talents and abilities, as well as their education and extensive knowledge of the Bible and systematic theology, could be put to use.

The megachurch in our city (around 10,000 people attend each week, and our population is around 150,000) offers many community service opportunities for people who like to get their hands dirty. This attracts a lot of MEN, who grow weary of sitting in a church and singing ancient ditties. Traditional churches often come across as somewhat effeminate, and many men feel uncomfortable. They prefer to be building or repairing things, and doing other practical services, rather than just sitting and receiving.

When men attend a church, their families attend. And many women who have despaired over the years of ever getting their husbands to attend church are so thrilled that their man is actually enjoying a church and attending faithfully–they don’t care that it’s a megachurch and not a Catholic church! They’re just glad he’s finally in church!

(continued next post)

 

[Cat]

(continued from last post)

So as someone else on this thread said, I think the answers are not simple, especially when we ask why CATHOLICS in particular get involved with megachurches. People don’t leave the Lord Jesus Christ Himself for a praise and worship band.

Of course we say, “Poor catechesis!” and that’s definitely true. But is that the ONLY reason why Catholics don’t believe in True Presence anymore?

Is it possible that they don’t believe in the True Presence because they see no evidence of changed lives outside of the Mass? Is it possible that people really are put off when no one in their parish ever says “Hi” to them, or when they say “Hi,” that’s as far as it gets?

Or perhaps they don’t seem to be able to find a place in the parish where they can serve God and actually DO something?

I personally think that even if a Catholic church offers an incredibly-good system of catechesis, where it’s virtually impossible to miss the teaching that Jesus is Truly Present in the Eucharist–people would still leave the Catholic Church for other reasons.

One of the reasons why I (and others on this thread) suspect that Catholics leave their parishes and join megachurches is for the music. People on this thread and all over CAF are too quick to dismiss the significance of music in the lives of people in the United States. There is a reason why the iPod is such a huge seller–people in the U.S. have a need to constantly have their music with them. There are certain ethnic groups for whom music is impossible to separate from their ethnic identity. And young people especially live for their music–it is a part of them. And boomers (my age, 54) tend to love listening to music.

Even if we personally don’t feel so strongly about carrying our music around with us, and even if we understand that the Mass in NOT not not about music–many others DON’T share our insights into the non-signficance of music. By digging in our heels and insisting that they see music OUR way (the correct way, of course), we are actually driving music lovers AWAY from the Catholic Church. We need to seek a way to answer people other than saying, “You have to think just like us.”

Yes, of course we’re not going to turn the Mass into a concert of popular music. I get that.

But would it be possible for Catholic parishes to offer concerts throughout the month and feature a variety of musical styles and artists, including contemporary music? I’ve read about the “oratories,” which were built just for that reason–so that Christians (Catholic) would be able to listen to great music outside of Mass.

This is just an example of one idea, but I think it’s worth looking at. Offering good music in the parishes might help retain people who depart in order to hear some truly good Christian music instead of what they are getting in their Masses.

And I’m sure that Catholic parishes could come up with other ideas to lure their people back from the megachurches. But we have to stop criticizing the megachurches, and be willing to criticize our own parishes.

If you read through all this, thanks!

 

[Kouyate42]

Bold mine.
The guy I mentioned in an earlier post who is so enamored with his MC has many personal problems and does not in the least come off as a christian. The young man needs a lot of prayer.
What his example shows is what is truly wrong with the mega-church model. Our supervisor, a Nazerene, invited him to go to his smaller more modest church, where he at least would be challenged on his lifestyle. Things the mega-church avoids because, to them, he is simply another warm body in thier pew (or theater seats).

A lot of the time the pastors of these churches don’t even know the size of their congregation, yet alone the names of the people who attend. There’s little to no emphasis on the compassionate side to being a pastor in these churches much of the time: you can’t approach the pastor after the service to talk with them, much less deal with personal issues with them.

My short time in Catholic and Orthodox churches showed me the opposite of this: Confession, prayer groups and spiritual advisors, anointing of the sick, visiting the houses of some of the congregation (this is especially true of Orthodoxy). Even smaller Protestant churches show much of this- my old church you could quite happily speak with the minister or a senior church staff member, arrange to meet them on a personal issue or spiritual issue, arrange for prayer to be said for you etc.

 

[Nicea325]

So why are some people attracted to meg-churches? I never really was that all that much…

Why do people go to those mega-churches???

A friend of mine and his entire family left the CC for this megachurch…and why? Because it is more fun? :ehh:

 

[Slinger]

What is a megachurch? Is this a Catholic term?

 

[Kouyate42]

What is a megachurch? Is this a Catholic term?

No, it’s not a Catholic term. It’s basically a term for a HUGE scale church, whose congregations can run into the 10,000+ mark and whose turnovers can be $10m+. Generally the churches themselves are much more like theaters or rock concerts than the traidtional Catholic church, with huge PAs, banners, an expensive sound system and plenty of lights and other things.

 

[Slinger]

So I take it that these are to be considered bad things and that people who choose to attend these types of churches are to be judged as making poor choices?

Just curious as I am sensing a lot of judgement and condemnation of people who go to a so called “mega church”.

 

[Nicea325]

So I take it that these are to be considered bad things and that people who choose to attend these types of churches are to be judged as making poor choices?

Just curious as I am sensing a lot of judgement and condemnation of people who go to a so called “mega church”.

My friend I really believe anyone here is passing judgement or condemnation on anyone who attends a mega-church.

 

[Slinger]

I just have to say that reading this thread certainly makes my blood boil. Do the people posting here not realize that the very fact that you are posting on a public website where non-Christians or non-Catholics are reading is a witness to your walk with Christ? Do you think that Jesus looks with pleasure at how you are publicly making fun of people who are choosing to go to church (no matter what their reason) and those who spend time volunteering at these churches to draw people to the Lord? So what if it is the entertainment that draws someone to a church!!! If that gets them there to hear about the Lord and to learn to worship Him then why would you look down on them? I’m not saying that everyone goes with an open heart to learn more about Jesus but even if you don’t, how do you not know that is how God is pulling them in to eventually come to Him? Besides, a great worship program is a true testament to how God uses people who He has gifted with talents.

I don’t know if my church would be a “megachurch” as we do not have 10,000 at a single service but we do have thousands that attend overall throughout the multiple services and campuses. As a matter of fact, I know of several Catholics who attend and love it. They still go to their mass but they come to our services for the worship and a powerful message that they just don’t get at their Catholic service. However, our pastor makes it very clear that we are not to try to pull others away from their own church but to reach out to the lost or un-churched.

 

[Nicea325]

I just have to say that reading this thread certainly makes my blood boil. Do the people posting here not realize that the very fact that you are posting on a public website where non-Christians or non-Catholics are reading is a witness to your walk with Christ? Do you think that Jesus looks with pleasure at how you are publicly making fun of people who are choosing to go to church (no matter what their reason) and those who spend time volunteering at these churches to draw people to the Lord? So what if it is the entertainment that draws someone to a church!!! If that gets them there to hear about the Lord and to learn to worship Him then why would you look down on them? I’m not saying that everyone goes with an open heart to learn more about Jesus but even if you don’t, how do you not know that is how God is pulling them in to eventually come to Him? Besides, a great worship program is a true testament to how God uses people who He has gifted with talents.

I don’t know if my church would be a “megachurch” as we do not have 10,000 at a single service but we do have thousands that attend overall throughout the multiple services and campuses. As a matter of fact, I know of several Catholics who attend and love it. They still go to their mass but they come to our services for the worship and a powerful message that they just don’t get at their Catholic service. However, our pastor makes it very clear that we are not to try to pull others away from their own church but to reach out to the lost or un-churched.

And what exactly are they not getting at Mass? Apparently they are there to pay attention. The entire message revolves Christ Word and the Lord’s Supper,so I cannot think of anything better out there?

 

[amber_lux]

So I take it that these are to be considered bad things and that people who choose to attend these types of churches are to be judged as making poor choices?

Let’s put it this way:

• How much to you think you’d learn, in a room with 2,000+ other people, and an instructor that didn’t have enough time to see you, but once a year;
• How would you feel, if the only way the church could determine who you were, was by your credit card, or debit card number;
• Do you really want the fifth associate pastor, whom you’ve never met, to perform a funeral service of your parents, of child? Individuals that he has never met, despite both being there for years;
• How would you feel if you were told that you can’t have your wedding on the day you scheduled it, because the biggest act in Christian Music is performing in the auditorium the evening of your wedding. (There is no sanctuary, merely an auditorium that serves as a basketball court on week days, and a concert hall on the nights of the weekend);

Amber

 

[MartinJordan]

A question:

Is there a Cross situated anywhere in a Megachurch?: And if so how big are they? Or which Megachurch has the biggest Cross?

Just wondering what the Megachurch’s real focus is.

MJ

 

[Slinger]

And what exactly are they not getting at Mass? Apparently they are there to pay attention. The entire message revolves Christ Word and the Lord’s Supper,so I cannot think of anything better out there?

I wouldn’t think of asking them that information… Why would I? They are adults and can make their own decisions. However, just because you cannot understand does not make the concept untrue to others, obviously.

 

[Slinger]

Let’s put it this way:

• How much to you think you’d learn, in a room with 2,000+ other people, and an instructor that didn’t have enough time to see you, but once a year;
• How would you feel, if the only way the church could determine who you were, was by your credit card, or debit card number;
• Do you really want the fifth associate pastor, whom you’ve never met, to perform a funeral service of your parents, of child? Individuals that he has never met, despite both being there for years;
• How would you feel if you were told that you can’t have your wedding on the day you scheduled it, because the biggest act in Christian Music is performing in the auditorium the evening of your wedding. (There is no sanctuary, merely an auditorium that serves as a basketball court on week days, and a concert hall on the nights of the weekend);

Amber

I just have to say, if you are not happy, then why would you go there? You have free will. However, why would you criticize others who choose to go? It sounds like you have a particular church you have a problem with…that’s okay…but they are not all the same…and you can go elsewhere if you choose.

 

[CompSciGuy]

I think we too easily dismiss the impact “involvement and fellowship” makes in the experience of church, especially when someone can attend the same Catholic parish for 20 years and never get spoken to at all - except perhaps to be told that you’re sitting in “their” usual pew.

I second what JustaServant says… also no matter what church you go to getting involved really depends on you… I remember before becoming Catholic, I was kind of hungry spiritually, and I would sort of follow friends into some megachurches (there are many of them in the south) and I would get the same treatment as you were describing. One of my more sarcastic friends who attended a mega baptist church turned around in her chair before one of the sermons had started and said in a very professional voice “Welcome to our company! You’re about to meet our CEO!”

 

[Marie_Gregg]

@Slinger -

I have friends who are still part of the megachurch we attended. I don’t understand their decision to stay, but I don’t belittle them or make fun of them. I also have never told them that they should leave, even though I have serious concerns about the teaching. So I don’t think that this thread is about bashing people. I think that this a thread about discussing a social trend.

I would never want to be part of a megachurch again, unless God very clearly directed my husband and I to one. I like knowing my pastor personally and being able to interact with more than just a handful of people. That is my personality. Other people might thrive in a megachurch.

If I may be so bold, why are you so sensitive to this topic? Have you or your church received what you feel to be unjustified criticism?

 

[Slinger]

@Slinger -

I have friends who are still part of the megachurch we attended. I don’t understand their decision to stay, but I don’t belittle them or make fun of them. I also have never told them that they should leave, even though I have serious concerns about the teaching. So I don’t think that this thread is about bashing people. I think that this a thread about discussing a social trend.

I would never want to be part of a megachurch again, unless God very clearly directed my husband and I to one. I like knowing my pastor personally and being able to interact with more than just a handful of people. That is my personality. Other people might thrive in a megachurch.

If I may be so bold, why are you so sensitive to this topic? Have you or your church received what you feel to be unjustified criticism?

Perhaps I am reading it wrong but, in my opinion, this thread seems to lean the way of people finding a way to bash something that is different than what they are used to or based on isolated experiences. I would say some of the responses are from people that could easily be labeled as bigots by definition. However, I personally have not experienced any criticism of my attendance at my church or of my church reputation. I’m sure some out there would find a way to criticize though…when there is a church body that is successful in reaching lost souls satan is going to find a way to twist people’s hearts who don’t like it! I know that myself and the people at my church who serve and work hard to develop all of the various ministries with countless hours of service are not done for “entertainment” value. That kind of comment was made earlier in this thread and, frankly, I find it disgusting.

My kids went to a Catholic retreat with some friends a couple of weeks ago. These are terrific kids who love the Lord. Even though we have some differences in beliefs they enjoyed their time and came back revitalized and excited about God. They shared one story with me though that was somewhat disturbing. One young lady, who had no problem speaking her mind, commented on occasion when she found out they attend a non-denominational church. One comment was to the tune of “who knows how many gods you worship there.” My kids are smart enough to look past that as ignorance on this young lady’s part as they know that you don’t make a sweeping judgement based on stupid remarks. The sad thing is, very few of the kids in her own youth group hung out with her and she is wanting to be a nun. I just find it sad that she does not see the potential ramifications of her ignorant comments just as people on this board do not see that of theirs.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Keep it charitable please

 

[JustaServant]

I just have to say, if you are not happy, then why would you go there? You have free will. However, why would you criticize others who choose to go? It sounds like you have a particular church you have a problem with…that’s okay…but they are not all the same…and you can go elsewhere if you choose.

The only person I can recall being criticized in this thread is a guy I suggested needed a lot of prayer. He was given simply as an example of the kind of damage this sociological movement brings.
But lets move on, if you are here to defend MCs then lets move on to that.