Megachurch Leaders are in it for the money?

[THutch04]

I don’t know how megachurch leaders are in general, but I do know one man who IS a megachurch leader, who does happen to have a lot of money. His daughter goes to school with me, and I’ve seen him pull up in a new Mercedes before. So I know their family is pretty well off.

 

[dosdog]

dosdog,

That is a sobering wake up call. I never realized. I always read these threads here about how there really are not that many protestant denominations, but I have to wonder if Megachurch is considered a Denomination or not? Or are they all individual denominations of sorts? So confusing. Do they all have the same “mission” statement? Or a (forgive me for using the old fashioned term here) Creed? I believe…

Oh well. I am glad she is not there I guess. Maybe she will look into something.

She did not even go to her husbands funeral because it was in a Church. Oh well. At least she thinks about Jesus so thats good.

I think this pretty much sums up thier beliefs

Paul Crouch from TBN demonstrates, you can often expect to be called a ‘Pharisee’ as well: “I’m tired of Scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites blocking God’s bridges when the harvest is perishing out there and God’s calling the body to come together. Let Him sort out all this doctrinal doo-doo, I don’t care about it!”

cnview.com/on_line_resources/paul_crouch_curses_those_who_contend_for_sound_doctrine.htm

 

[Damascus]

I think this pretty much sums up thier beliefs

Paul Crouch from TBN demonstrates, you can often expect to be called a ‘Pharisee’ as well: “I’m tired of Scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites blocking God’s bridges when the harvest is perishing out there and God’s calling the body to come together. Let Him sort out all this doctrinal doo-doo, I don’t care about it!”

cnview.com/on_line_resources/paul_crouch_curses_those_who_contend_for_sound_doctrine.htm

I dont like this one bit. He needs to up his dosage on his meds. Paul Crouch is a man who is clearly not speaking from the Spirit.

Any Charasmatics here on the forum that can make a comment on this?

I think this is sick. Sick man. I will pray for his soul.

 

[happygal]

Ohh, kinda like “BY THEIR DOLLARS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM”
paragraph 1 verse 1 on How to go to Hell as fast as you can Manual ?

I go by the Bible baby. It says FRUIT. Not $$$$

Damascus

God bless megachurches is becoz , God wanted them to help the poor. How can you help others if you are poor right?? How do your church helps the needy/victim when they isn’t much fund right!!!

However if any of these churches misused the fund given by God, they shall stand even more bitter judgement then anybody else. Money itself is not evil, is those who love money are evil. So isn’t it a good way that God tested such pple!! Love him or Love money!!!

 

[Damascus]

Damascus

God bless megachurches is becoz , God wanted them to help the poor. How can you help others if you are poor right?? How do your church helps the needy/victim when they isn’t much fund right!!!

However if any of these churches misused the fund given by God, they shall stand even more bitter judgement then anybody else. Money itself is not evil, is those who love money are evil. So isn’t it a good way that God tested such pple!! Love him or Love money!!!

Yes they have really helped my neighbor have they not?
How do you define poor? How much poorer can she be without a Church?

The Catholic Church helps the poor. We know you need money to do things.

But that is not the point. What is the personal pay the leaders get and based on what?
NO one is answering that.

 

[happygal]

Yes they have really helped my neighbor have they not?
How do you define poor? How much poorer can she be without a Church?

I don’t quite understand your question here, since to me that your neighbour is in need of a serious help, despite giving to her church, but yet not getting any help from it!!!

The Catholic Church helps the poor. We know you need money to do things.

But that is not the point. What is the personal pay the leaders get and based on what?
NO one is answering that.

I don’t speak for the Pastors in America, my Snr Pastor from my church is not on the Church payroll, his income comes from invitiation to preach overseas and other serminar that others invite him to attend. And to further avoid any questioning from church members, we have our Balance sheet posted on the website for everyone to see, be transparent how the fund has being used. We engaged Auditing company to audit on the account to prevent fraud…etc…Coz there are forever members questioning how their tithe and offering being used!!! So to have transparent book, then no question about it. For we serve the God who bless us, in return for the blessing to others

 

[St_John]

Damascus,
The Catholic Church has also had it’s serious problems recently that have driven people away from the Church. Let’s not throw stones when we live in a glass house, okay? I’m just thankful that we are out of the spotlight for awhile, but people will still want to talk about the sex scandals with me when they find out I’m a practicing Catholic.

 

[jim1130]

I ran into an aquaintance at the store this weekend who left the Catholic Church for one of the local feel-good churches that is amegachurch-want-to-be. I was trying to encourage her to return to the Catholic church, but she said the church she now attends is more in line with her belief system.

That says it all.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Megachurch Leaders are in it for the money?

How many actually live in a pious dwelling? Or at least a modest dwelling? Any takers on a percentage?

 

[Damascus]

Damascus,
The Catholic Church has also had it’s serious problems recently that have driven people away from the Church. Let’s not throw stones when we live in a glass house, okay? I’m just thankful that we are out of the spotlight for awhile, but people will still want to talk about the sex scandals with me when they find out I’m a practicing Catholic.

I know what you are saying St John, but this is not intent of the thread. My intent of the thread is to find out if she has given up on this megachurch thing for valid reasons. Financial squandering is her problem. She actually has commented on the Catholic Church scandals and her opinion is that it is sad but its no reason to leave the Catholic Church if one goes there (she knows I am obviously) and she appluads those who can see its not condoned by our faith or a part of it. In her case, she sees it as the leader of the Church is not a man of God so the whole thing is a joke. See, I think she is being a bit unfair here but I see the problem is the way megachurches are set up. She knows that if the Pope messes up and sins, it has nothing to do with his ability to teach faith and morals and she acknowledges none have made errors in that teaching. But since megachurch leaders dont have a seperate role protected from error of teaching that alienates her. She says she cant be sure if his teachings will be corrupt. She does not have faith in the fact that they can when its not a proven thing. You would think she would become a Catholic because she thinks this way. So its a leadership issue with her. Right now she says she is happy not going to church anymore. I suspect she does not chose the Catholic church because she is adamantly opposed to confession with a Priest. Otherwise, I think she is on board with the rest of it.

 

[Syele]

How many actually live in a pious dwelling? Or at least a modest dwelling? Any takers on a percentage?

[quote=barna.org]Pastoral Compensation Hits Record Level
The median value of pastoral compensation for America’s Senior Pastors is presently $38,214. (Pastoral compensation is a mixture of salary and benefits, such as housing allowance, car allowance, insurance, and retirement payments. Current laws make it advantageous for pastors to receive part of their compensation as housing and auto allowances, thereby reducing their taxable income.) That is a 19% increase since 1992 – significant in dollars, but still lagging inflation during that period. In other words, despite the rise in compensation, pastors effectively earn less today, based on constant dollars, than they earned a decade ago.
The highest-paid pastors are those serving the largest congregations: for instance, the median income among pastors whose church has more than 250 adult attenders is $56,429 annually. (Recognize that these churches represent less than one-tenth of the Protestant congregations in the country.)

Pastors of churches with less than 100 adults earn, on average, just $29,808 annually.
Other pastors whose income is above average for the profession include those leading mainline congregations ($41,364), seminary graduates ($42,083), pastors with more than 10 years of experience in full-time ministry ($42,035), and those leading a congregation in the West ($40,313).
Among the lowest-paid pastors are those serving churches in charismatic denominations ($36,591) as well as those pastoring black congregations ($36,875). Other low-paid segments included pastors who have been in full-time ministry less than five years ($35,667), Baby Busters – those under age 36 ($33,438), and pastors who have not graduated from seminary ($31,500).
There were two other patterns worthy of note. First, Senior Pastors in suburban ($42,500) and urban ($42,424) churches earned more than their counterparts who lead rural congregations ($33,456). Second, Internet use among pastors seems to be related to income: pastors who use the Internet ($40,694) earned substantially more, on average, than did those who were not online ($28,846).
George Barna, who directed the study, also pointed out that clergy compensation is especially noteworthy because more than two-thirds of all Senior Pastors have a graduate-level degree. Other professionals with that level of education earn average salaries over $60,000 or more, depending upon their profession. He pointed out that many church-goers, however, expect their pastor to earn less than the national average because they are involved in ministry, regardless of their school loans and family obligations. Pastors who have a seminary degree receive an average compensation package of $42,083 – significantly above the average for pastors without a seminary degree ($31,500), but notably below the national norm for professionals with advanced degrees.
Senior pastors with seminary degrees represent two-thirds of the pastors in the Northeast (67%) but just half of those in the West (49%). Such degrees are most common among mainline pastors (89%) but unusual among pastors of churches associated with charismatic denominations (29%) or black churches (48%).

[/quote]

 

[Damascus]

Syele:
No where in that passage did I get a grip on MegaChruch guys in that whole thing.

Did I miss it Syele?

Can you highlight the MegaChurch pator salary in this?

Lets say the number of parishoners are similar to Lakewood., or Willow Creek

 

[Syele]

No where in that passage did I get a grip on MegaChruch guys in that whole thing.

Did I miss it Syele?

Can you highlight the MegaChurch pator salary in this?

Lets say the number of parishoners are similar to Lakewood., or Willow Creek

median income among pastors whose church has more than 250 adult attenders is $56,429 annually. (Recognize that these churches represent less than one-tenth of the Protestant congregations in the country.)

All megachurches would have more than 250 members, wouldn’t they? Now if the $56,429 a year is an average (and I get that from the term “median income”, then the smaller church pastors would be getting nothing at all for a salary if the maga church pastors were getting Salaries in the millions per year. Also if the number of churches with more than 250 adult attenders is less than 10%, Megachurches would have to be a VERY small percentage of churches. The other day it was the only figure I found so I shared it. Here’s one more targeted to megachurches:

National Association of Church Business Administration found the average salary to be $91,200. The low side in the survey was $13,700 a year and the high was $249,600. But a pastor’s pay plus benefits was directly linked to the size – both budget and attendance – of the congregation.

Now are we considering the cost of living in come areas or the extra work that happens because there are so many more people in the church? Have you ever spent a day observing how much work a priest or Pastor has to do? I have never encountered a church where the pastor preached on Sunday and that’s it. There are weddings, funerals, people in the hospital, people needing counseling, people asking for food and money to survive, people wanting advice, people to visit in their homes because they are homebound, not to mention the scheduling of bible studies, classes, home groups, men’s and women’s breakfasts, mission projects etc. etc. Even though a mega church pastor has help to do many of these things he is still the one responsible for all of them. With more responsibility comes bigger salaries in every other profession and no one raises an eyebrow. If these pastors have way more responsibility than the the ones who have a congregation of 250, should they have to do all the extra work and have more responsibility on their shoulders and make the same income as the smaller church pastors?

As for the pious dwelling, my pastor (well I just moved but he was my pastor till last week) has a home that I’m guessing was about $250,000. Compared to my personal income, that isn’t pious. At the same time, though his home is constantly in use by missionaries visiting from other countries and other areas of the country and he does have a wife and 5 kids. What exactly defines a pious dwelling?

For Comparison a priests median income is $33,059 (*National Association of Church Personnel Administrators ) *And have about 900 registerd families (CARA).

 

[Damascus]

All megachurches would have more than 250 members, wouldn’t they? Now if the $56,429 a year is an average (and I get that from the term “median income”, then the smaller church pastors would be getting nothing at all for a salary if the maga church pastors were getting Salaries in the millions per year. Also if the number of churches with more than 250 adult attenders is less than 10%, Megachurches would have to be a VERY small percentage of churches. The other day it was the only figure I found so I shared it. Here’s one more targeted to megachurches:

**I think this survey does not include MegaChruches at all. Sorry, its a bit of a jump from 250 members to the kind of numbers in Mega Churches.

I think that the survey would indicate a specific breakdown and specific categories since it does not, I am assuming nothing here.**
Now are we considering the cost of living in come areas or the extra work that happens because there are so many more people in the church? Have you ever spent a day observing how much work a priest or Pastor has to do? I have never encountered a church where the pastor preached on Sunday and that’s it. There are weddings, funerals, people in the hospital, people needing counseling, people asking for food and money to survive, people wanting advice, people to visit in their homes because they are homebound, not to mention the scheduling of bible studies, classes, home groups, men’s and women’s breakfasts, mission projects etc. etc. Even though a mega church pastor has help to do many of these things he is still the one responsible for all of them. With more responsibility comes bigger salaries in every other profession and no one raises an eyebrow. If these pastors have way more responsibility than the the ones who have a congregation of 250, should they have to do all the extra work and have more responsibility on their shoulders and make the same income as the smaller church pastors?

Priests dont get money for confession should they start??? I could go on but your points here prove nothing.
As for the pious dwelling, my pastor (well I just moved but he was my pastor till last week) has a home that I’m guessing was about $250,000. Compared to my personal income, that isn’t pious. At the same time, though his home is constantly in use by missionaries visiting from other countries and other areas of the country and he does have a wife and 5 kids. What exactly defines a pious dwelling?

So you are saying he ran a Mega Church?

For Comparison a priests median income is $33,059 (*National Association of Church Personnel Administrators ) *And have about 900 registerd families (CARA).

Yeah its not a good “comparison” IMHO

 

[jim1130]

All megachurches would have more than 250 members, wouldn’t they?

You are talking 250 members, right? Not 250 families? Personally, I do not think that 250 members is very large for some of the salaries drawn.

 

[Syele]

I think this survey does not include MegaChruches at all. Sorry, its a bit of a jump from 250 members to the kind of numbers in Mega Churches.
**

I think that the survey would indicate a specific breakdown and specific categories since it does not, I am assuming nothing here.**

It seperated those with less the 100 adults, 100-250 adults and over 250 adults. It also pointed out that it didn’t furthur bbreak down the over 250 catagory because it accounted for less than 10% of churches.

Priests dont get money for confession should they start??? I could go on but your points here prove nothing.

Priests get paid don’t they? It’s not hourly as far as I know it is a salary for doing their job. Is Confession part of their job? Or do they just do it if they feel like it as a hobby? I’d say it’s part of a priests responsibilities and therefore they get paid for confession. Why do priests get paid at all then if it’s not for doing their job? If they work 70 hours aweek should they get the same pay for working 20? Just because you refuse to see my point dosn’t mean there isn’t one.

So you are saying he ran a Mega Church?

He ran a church with about 500 adult members. I was saying that by MY standards his house is not a ‘pious dwelling’ yet I don’t begrudge him living there since it is always full of people sleeping there. Be hard to fit 7 family members and various (but constant) guests in a 2 bedroom apartment.

Yeah its not a good “comparison” IMHO

I guess not, since you seem to believe that priest do not get paid for doing their jobs but are offered charity for no apparent reason.

 

[Syele]

You are talking 250 members, right? Not 250 families? Personally, I do not think that 250 members is very large for some of the salaries drawn.

They are not counting children. so it’s neither 250 members or 250 families unless they are all single parents. but they don’t mean churches with JUST 250 adults, they are talking about the average of ALL churches with OVER 250 adults. That would include both megachurches and non-megachurches in their average.

I can say thanksgiving dinner at my house will have over 30 people. THat wouldn’t mean that ONLY 30 people will show up. THere might be 100.

 

[Damascus]

**Now are we considering the cost of living in come areas or the extra work that happens because there are so many more people in the church? Have you ever spent a day observing how much work a priest or Pastor has to do? I have never encountered a church where the pastor preached on Sunday and that’s it. There are weddings, funerals, people in the hospital, people needing counseling, people asking for food and money to survive, people wanting advice, people to visit in their homes because they are homebound, not to mention the scheduling of bible studies, classes, home groups, men’s and women’s breakfasts, mission projects etc. etc. Even though a mega church pastor has help to do many of these things he is still the one responsible for all of them. With more responsibility comes bigger salaries in every other profession and no one raises an eyebrow. If these pastors have way more responsibility than the the ones who have a congregation of 250, should they have to do all the extra work and have more responsibility on their shoulders and make the same income as the smaller church pastors? **

Yes, I almost forgot— Priests do DAILY MASSES on top of all the stuff your list is here and even more that is not on your list here!!!

As for the pious dwelling, my pastor (well I just moved but he was my pastor till last week) has a home that I’m guessing was about $250,000. Compared to my personal income, that isn’t pious. At the same time, though his home is constantly in use by missionaries visiting from other countries and other areas of the country and he does have a wife and 5 kids. What exactly defines a pious dwelling?

For Comparison a priests median income is $33,059 (*National Association of Church Personnel Administrators ) *And have about 900 registerd families (CARA).

 

[Damascus]

They are not counting children. so it’s neither 250 members or 250 families unless they are all single parents. but they don’t mean churches with JUST 250 adults, they are talking about the average of ALL churches with OVER 250 adults. That would include both megachurches and non-megachurches in their average.

I can say thanksgiving dinner at my house will have over 30 people. THat wouldn’t mean that ONLY 30 people will show up. THere might be 100.

Wow!

I would love to be at your house…That actually sounds fun. Do the neighbors mind all the extra street parking from your party??

Wonder how many old folks trying to get to that block area are going to have to hike it a mile to get to their family’s house (your neighbors houses)

Glad you dont live on my block.

 

[Syele]

Yes, I almost forgot— Priests do DAILY MASSES on top of all the stuff your list is here and even more that is not on your list here!!!

Your right they do. The mega Church I used to attend years ago had one service on Saturday, four on sunday, one on wednesday, Prayer meetings on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and held other special services regularly. And yes, you are right, I didn’t mention everything a pastor/priest does that would take pages and pages. My point is that they all work hard and the more people they have responsibility for, the more work they have to do. What part of that do you disagree with? Is it that you think job pay should not reflect responsibility for clergy?