Mel Gibson attends Eastern Rite Church

[jackinbox]

I found a page with several interesting quotes from Gibson regarding Catholicism.

adl.org/Interfaith/gibson_ii.asp

Here’s the quote from the Larry King show:

“I probably sound like some egotist, you know, saying that the Roman Church is wrong, but I believe it is at the moment, since Vatican II.”
Larry King Live, December 19, 1990

Here’s a few others that seem to be somehwat contradictory:

“For 1,950 years [the church] does one thing and then in the 60s, all of a sudden they turn everything inside out and begin to do strange things that go against the rules … Everything that had been heresy is no longer heresy, according to the [new] rules. We [Catholics] are being cheated … The church has stopped being critical. It has relaxed. I don’t believe them, and I have no intention of following their trends … It’s the church that has abandoned me, not me who has abandoned it.”
El Pais (cited by Outlines News Service), February 1992

“There is no salvation for those outside the Church…I believe it.”
The New Yorker, September 15, 2003

 

[faithfulbride]

Because Mel Gibson is famous and so identified with The Passion and the Catholic faith I believe praying for him to see and understand the Truth will be a great witness for our true Roman Catholic faith. Unbelievers judge all believers by those that are most in the public eye - for better or for worse. I just had a question though - Mel says he is a devout “catholic” but recently his wife filed for divorce and immediately he was linked with a russian singer who has supposedly been “dating” since his “separation” two years ago - as a Catholic who is currently going through a divorce it is my understanding that ideally one should not date until an anullment is obtained or at the very least until the legal divorce is final. Any comments?

 

[Kathy2004]

I’m curious as to why you feel this way, Kathy.

Although, I did not see this movie, I am not into violence at all, I do believe that there was a spiritual message that exposes the demonic by revealing the Mayan’s practice of extreme violence and human sacrifices. Mel Gibson is familiar with the battle between good and evil in the spiritual realm and is being used to bring to light this battle. He is engaged in spiritual warfare and it is not fun. I am familiar all to well with this battle. That is why I remember him in prayer.

We do not battle against flesh and blood but against unseen spiritual forces and wickedness in the high places. He has been under horrific attacks since his filming of the Passion of Christ. The enemy of our souls did not want this movie to be made. Some have said that there has been a continual assault on this man even by his peers. I can understand why he is driven to drink. I admire him for his courage and his faith in Jesus Christ. May God have mercy on him and protect him from all evil.

Here is an interesting video by Fr. Barron on the movie Apocalypto:

youtube.com/watch?v=FM0blhmRLKY

God Bless You,

Kathy

 

[GodIsGracious]

Although, I did not see this movie, I am not into violence at all, I do believe that there was a spiritual message that exposes the demonic by revealing the Mayan’s practice of extreme violence and human sacrifices. Mel Gibson is familiar with the battle between good and evil in the spiritual realm and is being used to bring to light this battle. He is engaged in spiritual warfare and it is not fun. I am familiar all to well with this battle. That is why I remember him in prayer.

We do not battle against flesh and blood but against unseen spiritual forces and wickedness in the high places. He has been under horrific attacks since his filming of the Passion of Christ. The enemy of our souls did not want this movie to be made. Some have said that there has been a continual assault on this man even by his peers. I can understand why he is driven to drink. I admire him for his courage and his faith in Jesus Christ. May God have mercy on him and protect him from all evil.

Here is an interesting video by Fr. Barron on the movie Apocalypto:

youtube.com/watch?v=FM0blhmRLKY

God Bless You,

Kathy

Thank you, Kathy. Yes, I certainly understand spiritual warfare. I have been under attack myself, and am currently under attack (I am coming back to the Catholic Church after decades gone. And every time I do…well, let’s just say that things happen materially to have me disregard going to church, pray, etc. etc.)

At anyrate, I didn’t finish seeing the YouTube video. I will. I started to, but do not have time to finish it.

Bear in mind that there are MANY MANY Mexican Americans and Central Americans who are very angry with Mel Gibson for making Apocalypto. I don’t have the links with me, but at the time I saw the movie (and we bought it too) I started to do some research on it.

The Nuhuatl people were, IMO, a very beautiful people. That’s not to say that they did not practice the human sacrifice that they did practice, but it is not to the extent that people would have us believe. This is to help vilify them, make them barbaric, and to justify their eventual genocide. (Which is what happened.) They’re very intelligent, with an educational system unequaled (and equal for BOTH boys and girls).

I have to admit, when I saw Apocalypto it instilled in me a desire to get to know where my ancestors come from. I often wonder, what would I be believing had the Americas not been invaded by European explorers. I used to have a shame with being Mexican American and over time (and through the love of Mexicans from yet ANOTHER friend of mine whose heritage is Hungarian!) I have grown to appreciate them as part of my heritage.

Personally, I’m annoyed at how Mel Gibson portrayed this culture. I think he typified what many people believe when, in fact, we don’t really know too much about them at all. The “numbers” of humans that are believed to have been sacrificed by the Mayans, well… have been proven impossible.

At any rate, I just wanted to know why you felt the way you did about the movie. I loved it. But probably for different reasons, especially since I did actually see it. In this respect, with me, Gibson has, at least, inspired in me to learn about the culture I come from. (My dad is from Guadalajara so I’m sure we go “way back.” ) I used to be ashamed. I’m not now. I’m even learning Spanish! So, that’s a good thing, yes?

But I truly do understand spiritual warfare. I was just “complaining” about it last night to my boyfriend who, fortunately for me, gets it and doesn’t think I am crazy.

BTW, my boyfriend is Byzantine Catholic, so he was amused to hear that Gibson has been checking out the Byzantine rite.

God bless and peace.

 

[GodIsGracious]

Because Mel Gibson is famous and so identified with The Passion and the Catholic faith I believe praying for him to see and understand the Truth will be a great witness for our true Roman Catholic faith. Unbelievers judge all believers by those that are most in the public eye - for better or for worse. I just had a question though - Mel says he is a devout “catholic” but recently his wife filed for divorce and immediately he was linked with a russian singer who has supposedly been “dating” since his “separation” two years ago - as a Catholic who is currently going through a divorce it is my understanding that ideally one should not date until an anullment is obtained or at the very least until the legal divorce is final. Any comments?

He was immediately linked with another woman because 1) he’s famous so it’s juicy gossip fodder, 2) it’s way to show how Catholics can be hypocrites, when really we face our own challenges everyday just like anyone else. As someone else has said, he is under spiritual warfare. I never looked at what Mel Gibson is going through in this light.

You’re absolutely correct when you say that unbelievers judge all of us by a few. It’s in every thing. Even those religions we don’t believe in. So I totally agree we need to pray for him. I never thought about that so I’m glad I read this thread.

As far as being divorced or getting divorced, I think you’re right. I don’t have personal experience. The experience I have seen was that when my mom and dad got divorced about 38 years ago (when I was but 2! And they were only married a few years!) my mom NEVER remarried. Ever. My dad did. When his second wife died he married an even younger woman.

 

[Kathy2004]

Thank you, Kathy. Yes, I certainly understand spiritual warfare. I have been under attack myself, and am currently under attack (I am coming back to the Catholic Church after decades gone. And every time I do…well, let’s just say that things happen materially to have me disregard going to church, pray, etc. etc.)

At anyrate, I didn’t finish seeing the YouTube video. I will. I started to, but do not have time to finish it.

Bear in mind that there are MANY MANY Mexican Americans and Central Americans who are very angry with Mel Gibson for making Apocalypto. I don’t have the links with me, but at the time I saw the movie (and we bought it too) I started to do some research on it.

The Nuhuatl people were, IMO, a very beautiful people. That’s not to say that they did not practice the human sacrifice that they did practice, but it is not to the extent that people would have us believe. This is to help vilify them, make them barbaric, and to justify their eventual genocide. (Which is what happened.) They’re very intelligent, with an educational system unequaled (and equal for BOTH boys and girls).

I have to admit, when I saw Apocalypto it instilled in me a desire to get to know where my ancestors come from. I often wonder, what would I be believing had the Americas not been invaded by European explorers. I used to have a shame with being Mexican American and over time (and through the love of Mexicans from yet ANOTHER friend of mine whose heritage is Hungarian!) I have grown to appreciate them as part of my heritage.

Personally, I’m annoyed at how Mel Gibson portrayed this culture. I think he typified what many people believe when, in fact, we don’t really know too much about them at all. The “numbers” of humans that are believed to have been sacrificed by the Mayans, well… have been proven impossible.

At any rate, I just wanted to know why you felt the way you did about the movie. I loved it. But probably for different reasons, especially since I did actually see it. In this respect, with me, Gibson has, at least, inspired in me to learn about the culture I come from. (My dad is from Guadalajara so I’m sure we go “way back.” ) I used to be ashamed. I’m not now. I’m even learning Spanish! So, that’s a good thing, yes?

But I truly do understand spiritual warfare. I was just “complaining” about it last night to my boyfriend who, fortunately for me, gets it and doesn’t think I am crazy.

BTW, my boyfriend is Byzantine Catholic, so he was amused to hear that Gibson has been checking out the Byzantine rite.

God bless and peace.

I think most cultures have a past that is not all good. The English were very barbaric at times in their treatment of others. Their torture techniques were demonic as well.

I do not think it was Mel Gibson’s intent to put down a race, like he was also accused of with the making of the Passion of Christ by many Jews. Jewish people were involved with the death of Jesus, you can’t deny that, but the movie was meant to let the world know that Jesus died for our sins and that it was all of us who are responsible for his death. Some Jews were very defensive due to all the persecution they have faced and fear of the same again. Also the enemy use many people unknowingly to fulfill his purposes.

I am also sure that Mel Gilbson had enough sense to investigate the facts of the culture before making the movie Apocalypto. I do believe that it was probably pretty accurate but that does not make me think less of Mexican people. My children are half mexican and my grandchildren are 3/4 mexican.

I am glad that human sacrifices are no longer being done. I am sure that it was not pretty on both sides. In the end we will know why certain things happened the way they did. Sometimes it takes fire to fight fire. Mexico is largely a Catholic nation right?

I am sorry if I we are getting off on another subject that is not part of this thread.

There are not many people in Hollywood who would do what Mel G. has done. God uses the weak to confound the wise. God can use anyone and I think when we get to heaven we will be surprised at who made it and who didn’t.

May the Gospel be preached to all the nations! May we all be courageous in our faith and proclaim the truth without fear.

Kathy

 

[Diak]

Because Mel Gibson is famous and so identified with The Passion and the Catholic faith I believe praying for him to see and understand the Truth will be a great witness for our true Roman Catholic faith.

Not all Catholics praying for Mel are “Roman Catholic”; and he personally visited non-Roman Catholic Bishops (who are in full communion with Rome) whom he believed to be men of prayer to pray for him.

 

[I_Believe]

Poor Mel has now become the target of heresy…
dailystar.co.uk/news/view/77328/Cardinal-puts-boot-into-Mel/

 

[Rocky8311]

When I heard Mel was seeking out Maronites, my first thought was that he’s hoping to change jurisdictions and get a canonical divorce. Do Eastern Catholic churches like the Maronites give canonical divorce like the Eastern Orthodox?

 

[Aramis]

When I heard Mel was seeking out Maronites, my first thought was that he’s hoping to change jurisdictions and get a canonical divorce. Do Eastern Catholic churches like the Maronites give canonical divorce like the Eastern Orthodox?

Generally, no. The process in the Catholic Church is pretty much the same no matter which Church Sui Iuris is involved. Mostly because it has been spelled out in both sets of canon law.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Because Mel Gibson is famous and so identified with The Passion and the Catholic faith I believe praying for him to see and understand the Truth will be a great witness for our true Roman Catholic faith. Unbelievers judge all believers by those that are most in the public eye - for better or for worse. I just had a question though - Mel says he is a devout “catholic” but recently his wife filed for divorce and immediately he was linked with a russian singer who has supposedly been “dating” since his “separation” two years ago - as a Catholic who is currently going through a divorce it is my understanding that ideally one should not date until an anullment is obtained or at the very least until the legal divorce is final. Any comments?

You are absolutely correct- but sadly- many, many people disregard the Church’s teaching and guidance on these issues. If Mel was a repentant sinner, it wouldn’t be such a scandal to see him “church surfing”. God is merciful to those with a contrite heart. I can only cringe when I think of what suffering his wife and children have to endure now that he has gone public with the girlfriend on his arm, and a smile on his face. For shame, Mel! You bring the same scandal that other public figures bring upon the whole Church because of your utter, defiant departure from the precepts of God! (and it hardly matters
what church you belong to-***ADULTERY is ALWAYS WRONG!!!)

GO TO CONFESSION AND LIVE A CHASTE LIFE IN PENANCE BEFORE GOD AND MAN!!!***

 

[Kathy2004]

You are absolutely correct- but sadly- many, many people disregard the Church’s teaching and guidance on these issues. If Mel was a repentant sinner, it wouldn’t be such a scandal to see him “church surfing”. God is merciful to those with a contrite heart. I can only cringe when I think of what suffering his wife and children have to endure now that he has gone public with the girlfriend on his arm, and a smile on his face. For shame, Mel! You bring the same scandal that other public figures bring upon the whole Church because of your utter, defiant departure from the precepts of God! (and it hardly matters
what church you belong to-***ADULTERY is ALWAYS WRONG!!!)

GO TO CONFESSION AND LIVE A CHASTE LIFE IN PENANCE BEFORE GOD AND MAN!!!***

In my opinion, I think that it is a good thing that Mel Gibson is not in communion with the RCC considering what is going on in his life right now. The Church suffers enough with the scandals within already.

I do think that we need to make sure that what we express is done in the right spirit, which would be the Spirit of Jesus. I think it is true that Christians kill their wounded.
Remember the story of the woman caught in adultry? What did Jesus do and what did he say? “He who is without sin, let him throw the first stone.” We will all be judged by what we have done and said. Jesus will not forget what Mel Gibson sacrificed to make a great movie about Him.

May God help Mel Gibson overcome his faults and bring healing to his family.

Kathy

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Byz Cath,

Thanks for your interesting remark. Actually, the Novus Ordo tinkered with all sorts of things that had been crystal clear and orthodox in the 1962 Missale Romanum. I have come across mention at times at the doubtful legitimacy of the phrasing of and surrounding the Words of Institution over the elements in the Mass, which vary from what the Old Mass had as wording. There are many deletions of phrasing (but, of course and thankfully, far from all of them) that refer to the Divinity of Our Lord, downplay of the Holy Ghost and of His Divinity, all sorts of things that men who had a greater respect for Holy Tradition than the liberalising wordsmiths of the Novus Ordo never would have dared to do. It was as if they were intentionally trying to see how much they could “get away with” without totally wrecking the essence of the Mass and other liturgies all in one round of revision’s “take” on the Mass and other sacraments. About the one good innovation, a welcome one, in the Mass was the introduction in the Novus Ordo of an epiklesis, something that the Eastern liturgies (and even the Anglicans’ Book of Common Prayer “Holy Communion”, albeit somewhat feebly) always had. That particular amelioration, however, does not excuse the wrecking ball that was taken to so much else of the Church’s liturgies! I hope that Pope Benedict XVI succeeds in reforming the 1970 liturgies, despite all the episcopal and other opposition!

I cannot blame anyone, like Mel Gibson, turning to the Eastern Rite! I would do so, myself, if its presence here in my town of the Abitibi were on a more solid footing. (As it is, the Eastern Rite Mass only is offered on alternate Sundays, and I have the practical problem of limited mobility which makes it difficult to get to Mass at all on Sunday, whereas I do not have that problem on Saturday, when I can go easily to a Novus Ordo Mass.) Anyway, Eatern Catholics and Roman Catholics are all Catholics, and that is what counts foremost!

We had written: Jerry Parker: *Mel Gibson or most other Catholics of presumably like mind usually prefer to attend an Eastern Rite parish because of distaste for the Novus Ordo Mass (1970) of Pope Paul VI. Here in the Abitibi region of Québec, a number of Roman Catholics attend the Ukrainian Catholic Church for just that reason. The Novus Ordo Mass simply does not respond to the spiritual aspirations of many Catholics. The richer and more spiritually nourishing Latin Mass (1962 Missal) and Eastern Rite liturgies fulfil a need that the Novus Ordo does not, at least for such Christians. If Pope Benedict XVI succeeds in reforming the 1970 Mass, as he has begun to do with some measures (but which too few bishops implement as yet), perhaps, eventually, the post-1970 Mass will not be so deficient to the needs of Catholics who favour the 1962 Missal. *

***Byz Cath: ****It’s not just a dislike of the normative Mass. It is also the change of the Ordination Rite that bothers many of them. The people who hold this view have no problem attending a Byzantine Divine Liturgy as the Ordination Rite has not been changed.

I think Mel holds to this view because of an interview he did when the Passion of the Christ was released. The interview was on Dateline (maybe it was 20/20) and when asked about attending Mass his answer was something about if the priest was ordained properly.*

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

In my opinion, I think that it is a good thing that Mel Gibson is not in communion with the RCC considering what is going on in his life right now. The Church suffers enough with the scandals within already.

I do think that we need to make sure that what we express is done in the right spirit, which would be the Spirit of Jesus. I think it is true that Christians kill their wounded.
Remember the story of the woman caught in adultry? What did Jesus do and what did he say? “He who is without sin, let him throw the first stone.” We will all be judged by what we have done and said. Jesus will not forget what Mel Gibson sacrificed to make a great movie about Him.

May God help Mel Gibson overcome his faults and bring healing to his family.

Kathy

The woman caught in adultery was in the** “right spirit” by her penitence**…therefore she received forgiveness from the Lord.
We all sin-yes-and that’s why Jesus died for us and that’s why we have the Sacrament of Penance.We also make moral judgments every day…we’re not supposed to condemn each other, however. I understand that it’s a **spiritual work of mercy to “admonish the sinner” **… that’s out of pure love of God and for the person’s own sake.
It is a sin of presumption to think that just because we have done “something great” for the Lord, that we can’t fall away from grace thereafter.
Mel Gibson needs our prayers and our admonishing.. Also encouragement to do the right thing-it’s simply misguided compassion to think otherwise. Don’t be afraid of being judged yourself for “being judgmental” Jesus did tell the woman, “go, and sin no more…”

I have a devotion to the Divine Mercy (I know I need it…the Chaplet of Mercy is very efficacious! God Bless.

 

[Kathy2004]

The woman caught in adultery was in the** “right spirit” by her penitence**…therefore she received forgiveness from the Lord.
We all sin-yes-and that’s why Jesus died for us and that’s why we have the Sacrament of Penance.We also make moral judgments every day…we’re not supposed to condemn each other, however. I understand that it’s a **spiritual work of mercy to “admonish the sinner” **… that’s out of pure love of God and for the person’s own sake.
It is a sin of presumption to think that just because we have done “something great” for the Lord, that we can’t fall away from grace thereafter.
Mel Gibson needs our prayers and our admonishing.. Also encouragement to do the right thing-it’s simply misguided compassion to think otherwise. Don’t be afraid of being judged yourself for “being judgmental” Jesus did tell the woman, “go, and sin no more…”

I have a devotion to the Divine Mercy (I know I need it…the Chaplet of Mercy is very efficacious! God Bless.

Your are right to say that just because we have done “something great” for the Lord, that we can’t fall away from grace thereafter. King Solomon built a grand temple for the Lord after being blessed with wisdom and wealth. He fell also. He married foreigners against the Lord’s command, had hundreds of concubines. There are other stories of fallen humanity.

Apostle Paul wrote in Galatians 6:1 (RSV):

“Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Look to yourself, lest you too be tempted”

This is a another way to say the same thing: God calls us to help our fellow human beings to confront their sins in a loving, nonjudgmental way, and without feeling arrogant in our righteousness; recognizing, too, that we are not perfect.

I do not remember Jesus speaking to a sinner in a harsh, judgmental tone. He did rebuke the religious and rescued the woman caught in adultry. This is an example of what our attitude should be.

I think that we need to make sure that the Lord has called us to “admonish a sinner” and not use that scripture to condemn. It is so easy to judge and say things in the wrong spirit, which is the spirit of the devil. I am guilty of this as well.

We also should be mindful about where we get our information and that it is correct. I have read qoutes from gossip rags on this thread. The world breeds on this stuff, they love it. This is the work of the enemy and we are willing participants by reading and believing it then passing on the gossip.

Only Jesus knows the truth and the heart of a person. I am not condoning adultry, divorce or anything like that. I respect the man for what He did to let the world know how Jesus Christ died for us sinners. It will not be the first time that the Lord has used someone that is not Orthodox to do his work and it will not be the last.

May the Lord have mercy on us all. Come quickly Lord Jesus!

Kathy

 

[Roy5]

MEL GIBSON AS A CATHOLIC

I saw his famous film and thought it quite moving, except that it may have put too much emphasis on heart-wrenching violence, as Gibson likes to do in his movies.

Now we know that Gibson's girlfriend is pregnant. Somehow I can feel sorry for him. So human. But I also get a bit of a kick out of his downfall after he (and his Dad) have displayed such showy public piety. Wasn't it Jesus who said: "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things that I say."

 For some reason I was reminded of Fr. Andrew Greeley. When Bruce Springsteen was married he wrote a piece praising them as an ideal Catholic couple. Not long after - divorce!

 This triumphantism, this tendency of many Christians to proudly put certain of their co-religionists on a pedestal, can be fatal. I am still unable to understand why most of the leading supporters of abortion rights in Congress (e. g., Kennedy, Leahy, Dodd, Pelosi, Biden, Durbin, Kerry, etc) list themselves as Catholics.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

MEL GIBSON AS A CATHOLIC

I am sorry but I do not think a Catholic sets up his own chapel out side of the jurisdiction of the local ordinary.

 

[Shoshana]

I am saddened by all of this. Once a catholic, always a catholic. There is an idelible mark on us. And we would be seperated from the catholic church if we formally write a letter asking for dispension. Otherwise, from my understanding we may be catholic but a BAD catholic. Catholic nonetheless.

 

[GodIsGracious]

I am sorry but I do not think a Catholic sets up his own chapel out side of the jurisdiction of the local ordinary.

Hey may be an errant Catholic, but he IS Catholic.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

More lenient…how so?
Does the Eastern Orthodox (we’re talking EO, not Eastern Rite Catholic, right)…
Does the EO Church follow Christ’s words on divorce and remarriage?
Does the EO have a tribunal in place to examine the validity of a sacrament?

Five yrs ago I nearly converted to EO…It was the Scriptural place of “Church discipline” or the tribunal, and faithfulness to Christ’s words on the Sacrament of Marriage, that had me bypass EO and convert to RC…

Grace and Glory & Una Fides:

Mel Gibson didn’t attend an Eastern Orthodox Church. He attended a Maronite Catholic Church. In fact, Bishop Robert Shaheen is the local Maronite Bishop - He’s the Bishop of the Maronite Eparchy (Diocese) of Our Lady of Lebanon. They have a Cathedral in Los Angeles (Our Lady of Mount Lebanon/St. Peter Cathedral). I’ve attended Divine Liturgy there several times. The Eparchy of Our Lady of Lebanon is out of St. Louis:
usamaronite.org/index2.cfm
St. Raymond’s Maronite Cathedral (St. Louis, MO)
straymonds.net/default.aspx

Here’s the original Link which got the “Diocese” wrong:
Mel Gibson visits St. Louis to attend Church

The Maronite CATHOLIC Church is definitely in union with Rome, and has never not been in union with Rome. It’s hard for Roman Catholics to realize that they are only one of 24 bodies in union with & headed by His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI:
Re: Why should I trust the Roman Catholic Church Post #120
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5084042&postcount=120

Mr, Gibson’s behavior has been strange lately, to say the least. The fact that many of us wish someone would correct him doesn’t mean he’s not our brother in Christ, & that he doesn’t need a LOT of prayers. I hope we can all agree on that/

Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael