"Mel Gibson Not Grounded in True Catholicism?"...Please Explain

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Ourladyguadalup

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I did not want to hijack the Tridentine Mass thread with my questions on this: * (sorry, slightly of topic, but I posted in liturgy, since that’s where the original post was located) *

Agnes alluded to Mel Gibson’s father, whose opinions I am familiar with, & his quirky ideas. She also alluded to the fact that Mel himself “is not really well grounded in Catholicism” and had to "try and act like a regular Catholic. "

I have not, however, seen anything from Mel Gibson that definitively shows him to be anything other than in full communion with the Church & Pope John Paul II. So far, only rumors. We cannot judge him on his father’s actions. As far as I am aware, he has said only, “I love my father & I will not speak against him.” This is not an affirmation that his beliefs are similar, but just Mel honoring his father, as he should. Any “correction” or “advice” he gives his father, I feel, can & should remain private.

So, have I missed something? I will admit that my children keep me quite busy & may have missed out on this info. Can anyone provide any links or sources for this critique?

Also, I have heard of Mel building a private chapel on his estate for the tridentine mass to be said daily, but again, until I heard or read otherwise, I assumed that he would be getting the required permission from the local bishop to do so. I know that many wealthy families have had private chapels in the past with permission. I do not normally like to get involved in arguing in posts, I just think it’s a bad idea to discredit someone based only on rumor, so please clarify.

Thanks, Jennifer :confused:
 
You’re completely correct.

I have heard Jimmy Akin say twice on CALive that he asked a canon law expert friend about it, and that Mel Gibson has not done or said anything to indicate that he is anything other than in full communion with the Church.

Mel Gibson has a right to his good name, and it is wrong for people to spread rumours and detract from his good name.
 
Hi Jennifer,

In your post you posted:

“I have not, however, seen anything from Mel Gibson that definitively shows him to be anything other than in full communion with the Church & Pope John Paul II.”

Just to answer some of your questions on Mel Gibson and whether or not he is in full communion with the Church and Pope:

Mel Gibson belongs to a schismatic group of so-called Catholics called the “Traditionalist Catholics”. They’re not in union with the Pope as this sect rejects some or all reforms started by the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s. More information about the Traditionalist Catholics can be found on their website, which is latinmass-ctm.org/ (feel free to press stop on the music player when the site starts up… haha… i wasn’t too fond of the singing! haha :whacky: )

Hope the website helps! 👋
  • Christine
 
… which seems weird because my friends have seen him more than once on EWTN… I don’t really understand that part :confused:

-Christine
 
Didn’t Mel Gibson build his own chapel apart from the jurisdiction of the diocesene bishop, which is against canon law? Wouldn’t that be a good indicator that he’s not in “full communion” with the Catholic Church?
 
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Chrismasfetus:
Hi Jennifer,

In your post you posted:

“I have not, however, seen anything from Mel Gibson that definitively shows him to be anything other than in full communion with the Church & Pope John Paul II.”

Just to answer some of your questions on Mel Gibson and whether or not he is in full communion with the Church and Pope:

Mel Gibson belongs to a schismatic group of so-called Catholics called the “Traditionalist Catholics”. They’re not in union with the Pope as this sect rejects some or all reforms started by the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s. More information about the Traditionalist Catholics can be found on their website, which is latinmass-ctm.org/ (feel free to press stop on the music player when the site starts up… haha… i wasn’t too fond of the singing! haha :whacky: )

Hope the website helps! 👋
  • Christine
 
I am new to the group and a bit confused. In what way would anyone who wished to reinstate the Tridentine Mass be out of communion with the Church? The Latin Mass is the oldest form of the practiced liturgy in the Roman Church. There is nothing schismatic about it. Other churches in communion with Rome have similar “old” masses, e.g., The Maronite Church follows the litugy of St. James in English and a good deal of Syriac/Aramaic, the language of Our Lord Jesus.

Benedict
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to reinstate the Tridentine Mass. In my opinion, I would say the Tridentine Mass is more reverent and of course, traditional… but the problem with those who are not in union with the Church is that they reject the Pope’s teachings and follow their own beliefs which are not in union with the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church… An example of schismatic group can be found on www.truecatholic.org. They even elected their own Pope from Milwaukee, I believe… there are other options for Catholics who wish to attend Tridentine Masses… they can do so in churches who are obedient to the Pope, haha, not some impostor from Milwaukee. 😃

-christine
 
I recently experienced the Tridentine Mass for the first time less than a year ago and I loved it. It is very traditional and solemn- a far cry from so many of the Masses celebrated nowadays. However, in order to celebrate the Tridentine Mass, a priest must have permission from the bishop. Obedience is a vow for priests and b/c the “ordinary” Mass for the current times is the Vatican II Mass, to deviate from the norm requires hierarchical permission. Although JPII has called for “generous allowance” for the Tridentine Mass, the bishop of the docese still has the power to allow or not. To disobey one’s bishop is not permissable even if the intent is good.
Steve
 
I agree with the statement that Mr. Gibson is entitled to his good name, and that we should not speculate without reason. However, if somebody used the word TRIDENTINE, according to my sources, that is NOT the permitted (1962 Missal) Latin Mass, that is the Mass that 1) is only permitted in a concert-like setting i.e. to show a Religious Education class the way things used to work, and 2) is backed by the conservatives that do NOT support Pope John Paul II precisely because they do NOT recognize the validity of the Vatican II (and in some cases Vatican I) changes.

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/2004/documents/ns_lit_doc_20040202_liturgia-bellezza_en.html “Liturgy and Beauty”, a document specifically involved with modern Papal Masses
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

*Sacrosanctum Concilium *para 63(b): “In harmony with the new edition of the Roman Ritual” (emphasis mine); obviously the Latin Mass that His Holiness does now is not the Latin Mass that Pius XII did.

ChibiBarako
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Ourladyguadalup:
I did not want to hijack the Tridentine Mass thread with my questions on this: (sorry, slightly of topic, but I posted in liturgy, since that’s where the original post was located)

Agnes alluded to Mel Gibson’s father, whose opinions I am familiar with, & his quirky ideas. She also alluded to the fact that Mel himself “is not really well grounded in Catholicism” and had to "try and act like a regular Catholic. "

I have not, however, seen anything from Mel Gibson that definitively shows him to be anything other than in full communion with the Church & Pope John Paul II. So far, only rumors. We cannot judge him on his father’s actions. As far as I am aware, he has said only, “I love my father & I will not speak against him.” This is not an affirmation that his beliefs are similar, but just Mel honoring his father, as he should. Any “correction” or “advice” he gives his father, I feel, can & should remain private.

So, have I missed something? I will admit that my children keep me quite busy & may have missed out on this info. Can anyone provide any links or sources for this critique?

Also, I have heard of Mel building a private chapel on his estate for the tridentine mass to be said daily, but again, until I heard or read otherwise, I assumed that he would be getting the required permission from the local bishop to do so. I know that many wealthy families have had private chapels in the past with permission. I do not normally like to get involved in arguing in posts, I just think it’s a bad idea to discredit someone based only on rumor, so please clarify.

Thanks, Jennifer :confused:
 
It’s not the 1962 Roman Missal Mass that makes the SSPX schismatic. The Fraternal Society of St. Peter celebrate the 1962 Latin Mass with indult (permission) and are not schismatic.

All approved liturgies of the Catholic Church are sacred. The SSPX, however, contend the Mass promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1969 is “intrinsically evil.” They assert that Vatican II “adulterated” Catholic teaching and pick and choose which canons of the Catholic Church they follow and which canons they disobey.

Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (non-schismatic traditionalists)
fssp.org/en/index.htm

Society of St. Pius X (schismatic traditionalists)
sspx.org/

God bless,

Dave
 
I think perhaps I am being misunderstood. I have heard all of the same things **about ** Mel, but haven’t heard Mel actually confirm (or deny) that he does belong to SSPX or any other Traditionalist Church that is schismatic. Just because he may lean toward traditionalism (small t), does not make him a Traditionalist (capital T).

I do know from someone who worked on Mel’s movie that the Latin mass held daily for the cast & crew was with the local bishop’s approval.

I guess what I am looking for is not info on groups Mel is rumored to belong to, but some **source ** or quote that actually confirms the rumors that Mel actually belongs to the group.

I do not think it’s a good idea to repeat this stuff without proof from a reliable source. Please don’t be so quick to believe everything you hear & give the rumors life, when they may well be untrue or a distortion of a truth. 😦
 
Mel Gibson is quoted by an Australian newspaper as saying: “I agree with everyone who says the Vatican is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.” (“Mel Gibson’s only daughter opts to be a nun,” Sydney Morning Herald, 15 Sep 2002)

Furthermore, as reported by the Associated Press:
"Gibson is building a traditionalist church on a 9,300-square-foot complex in Malibu, Calif., for about 70 members, the Times said. He is serving as the director, chief executive officer and sole benefactor of the church, which intends to conduct its Sunday Mass entirely in Latin. The property was purchased by a church group called Holy Family. (Associated Press, 9 Mar 2003, “Report: Mel Gibson is building church for his Catholic Movement”, The Mercury News)

CBS News reports “Actor Mel Gibson is the person behind a 9,300-square-foot, Mission-style Catholic church complex in Malibu, Calif., that is not affiliated with any diocese.” (“Mel Gibson gets religion”, CBS News.org, 10 Mar 2003)

Cardinal Roger Mahony from the Diocese of Los Angeles stated regarding Gibson’s Church: “**I know nothing about the Church in Malibu. It is certainly not in communion with the Universal Catholic Church nor the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. I have never met Mr. Gibson, and he does not participate in any parish of this Archdiocese. He, apparently, has chosen to live apart from the communion of the Catholic Church. I pray for him. **” (nfcym.org/v3/resources/passion_mahony.html Feb 20, 2004)
 
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itsjustdave1988:
Cardinal Roger Mahony
from the Diocese of Los Angeles stated regarding Gibson’s Church: "I know nothing about the Church in Malibu. It is certainly not in communion with the Universal Catholic Church nor the Archdiocese of Los Angeles."

I think a very good case could be made that Cardinal Baloney is in de facto schism
 
I think a very good case could be made that Cardinal Baloney is in de facto schism
Perhaps so. However, he is not been canonically removed by the Pope, so he is still the one who is supposed to pastor the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. According to canon law, one is not permitted to just build their own place of worship apart from the jurisdictional authority of the diocesene bishop.

Simply put, there’s no “chain of command” (I’m in the military) from Mel Gibson to the Pope. Whereas, my Pastor, Fr. Brad is incardinated by my Bishop, Michael Sheridan, who is appointed by and in communion with the Roman Pontiff. If Mel’s pastor is in the Official Catholic Directory, I’d be very surprised.

God bless,

Dave
 
look out… the christians are putting their wagons in a circle… looking to hang someone from a cross… is there not an authority that knows for sure… this speculation stuff can be bad news… remember, sticks and stones can break your bones, but, words can break your heart… 👍
 
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