Mel Gibson, Robert Downey Jr., and Forgiveness

[QuestLove]

I have never understood the ongoing vilification of Mel Gibson. He has tried to make amends with the jewish community, a senior rabbi reached out to him and Mel accepted his invitation to learn more about the jewish culture, history and faith.

He is now a personal friend of Alison Weiner a jewish journalist who initially joined in on the maligning and then changed her mind once she got to know him. He attended her son’s bar mitzvah. Her article on why he should be forgiven is below.

She actually dug around and found out that Mel has donated hundreds of millions to jewish and catholic charities around the world. No you won’t see a picture of him flashing his pearly whites and posing for a photo handing out the cheque. He did a lot of it before the bust up.

He has quietly donated over 50 million over the years to NIDA in Sydney. The National Institute of Dramatic Arts where he studied along with Nicole Kidman, Cate Blanchett and 4time Oscar winner Catherine Martin.

I found it an interesting statement about the movie industry when they allowed Mike Tyson who was convicted of rape, imprisoned and known for beating his women to have a role in the Hangover (granted it’s a ghastly movie) yet the cast/crew would not under any circumstances work with Mel Gibson who was also offered a role.

So Mel’s words in their eyes is worse than a convicted rapist who beat up women. Yes Tyson served his time, got ‘rehabilitated’ and found Allah in prison. Hasn’t Mel tried to make amends as well?

deadline.com/2014/03/mel-gibson-career-hollywood-deserves-chance-697084/

I think that the main reason Mel Gibson got black-balled is because he has offended a group that is largely represented in hollywood as the backers of most of the projects he wants to be a part of. I am not saying that he is less deserving of a chance than the others, I am just saying that he has to face reality and realise that he has bitten the hands that fed him.
Making movies requires backers with a lot of money, and if these backers do not believe that Mel is truly sorry, it doesn’t seem far-fetched that they would not want to work with him. Luckily for him, RDJ is in his camp and he does have some clout. I think Jodie Foster had also begged for MG in the past to be in a movie that she was in. So Mel does have a few people who are willing to forgive him. The memory of the public is short and MG just may come back. After all, RDJ was out in the cold for a very long time and he has bounced back.

 

[QuestLove]

Gibson has publicly stated that he has never left Rome.

Gibson was raised a traditionalist Catholic. When asked about the Catholic doctrine of “Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus”, Gibson replied, “There is no salvation for those outside the Church … I believe it. Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She’s a much better person than I am. Honestly. She’s… Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it’s just not fair if she doesn’t make it, she’s better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.”

When he was asked whether John 14:6 is an intolerant position, he said that “through the merits of Jesus’ sacrifice… even people who don’t know Jesus are able to be saved, but through him.”

Close acquaintance Father William Fulco has said that Gibson denies neither the Pope nor Vatican II.

Boyer, Peter J. The New Yorker. September 15, 2003
people.com/people/archive/article/0,20059176,00.html Adato, Allison (August 14, 2006).

I didn’t know he remarried

 

[jeannetherese]

A former Franciscan priest at Mel’s church, Clement Procopio, was let go from the Diocese of Phoenix because he was performing a kind of mass that his Bishop forbade:
(letter excerpt)

You may no longer function as a priest in the Diocese of Phoenix. I would consider any future public celebration of the Tridentine Mass by you to be analogous to a schismatic act. You are leading the faithful astray and causing division with this local Church. In a spirit of fraternal concern, I appeal to you to renounce the position that you have taken and agree to abide by my direction in this matter. Should you do so, I would consider the restoration of your faculties.

Faithfully yours in Christ,
Most Reverend Thomas J. O’Brien
Bishop of Phoenix

.

Greetings!
I searched for the letter online and found it was dated January 6, 2003.
Much can change or develop over nearly twelve and a half years.
Perhaps it is best to keep Mr. Gibson and all who seek Our Lord in prayer.
May God bless you.
jt

 

[Cider]

I’m still shaking my head at the claim that Downey was raised a Catholic. I’ve only heard him talk about the completely bohemian family life he grew up in with parents doing drugs and lots of free sex and him participating from a young age. Not sure where the Catholicism came into play there.

 

[Cider]

I don’t know what he’s publicly stated or not, but I’m pretty sure his parish that he built and funds, The Church of the Holy Family, isn’t affiliated with the Archdiocese of LA and many of the parish members are “Sedevacantists” (I have spoken to a few of them and this is what they tell me).
Doesn’t a church have to be linked with the Archdiocese to be official?

A former Franciscan priest at Mel’s church, Clement Procopio, was let go from the Diocese of Phoenix because he was performing a kind of mass that his Bishop forbade:
(letter excerpt)

You may no longer function as a priest in the Diocese of Phoenix. I would consider any future public celebration of the Tridentine Mass by you to be analogous to a schismatic act. You are leading the faithful astray and causing division with this local Church. In a spirit of fraternal concern, I appeal to you to renounce the position that you have taken and agree to abide by my direction in this matter. Should you do so, I would consider the restoration of your faculties.

Faithfully yours in Christ,
Most Reverend Thomas J. O’Brien
Bishop of Phoenix

What all that means regarding “leaving Rome” or not, or following the pope and Vatican II or not, I’m sure you have a better idea than me.

.

How long ago was this? Because Bishop Olmstead has been the Bishop of Phoenix for over 10 years and the EF of the mass is widely celebrated there by the FSSP. When I lived there it was available at at least 4 different parts of the city.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I didn’t know he remarried

He hasn’t remarried, the quote was made when he was married to his first wife Robyn.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I’m still shaking my head at the claim that Downey was raised a Catholic. I’ve only heard him talk about the completely bohemian family life he grew up in with parents doing drugs and lots of free sex and him participating from a young age. Not sure where the Catholicism came into play there.

His father was a European Jew born Robert John Elias Jr. His Dad changed his surname to Downey due to his stepdad.

His grandmother was half Irish.

I don’t believe he practices or identifies with any faith.

 

[John_Lazarus]

As I understand it, Mel’s marriage was “annulled” by a tribunal consisting of his father and some others. Hutton Gibson (Mel’s dad) is sedevacantist.

So I don’t know where it all ends.

I just think Mel should keep away from alcohol. That would solve a few probs there – seems that many of his occurred while under the influence.

 

[7_Sorrows]

As I understand it, Mel’s marriage was “annulled” by a tribunal consisting of his father and some others. Hutton Gibson (Mel’s dad) is sedevacantist.

So I don’t know where it all ends.

I just think Mel should keep away from alcohol. That would solve a few probs there – seems that many of his occurred while under the influence.

He was married many years to his first wife and they had a lot of kids.
I didn’t know his marriage had been annulled or that he was divorced.
Did he marry his Russian girlfriend? I agree. He needs to stay away from alcohol.

 

[LoveMercyGrace]

This reminds me of the Chesterton story about the priest and forgiveness. We as a culture only want to forgive when it’s something we really don’t think was a problem in the first place. For me at least forgiving is very difficult, and it’s good to have a reminder that forgiveness should be placed highly.

 

[MarkR]

Using that standard, as an outsider looking into American society I might think Americans don’t have a problem with forgiving a convicted rapist and woman beater but someone like Mel is unforgivable.

I can see why you would think this. Americans have forgiven Mel Gibson though. One big proof of this is that cable movie stations play his movies constantly, possibly more than any other living actor’s except for Clint Wastwood–Death Wish, Brave Heart, We Were Soldiers, etc., are shown on at least one channel at least once a month and frequently more. That shows that he gets big ratings. I, personally, don’t know anyone who doesn’t like Mel Gibson or his movies.

It’s the small group of Hollywood and media elites who have the megaphone that want him ruined–the “tolerant” Left. They NEVER forgive if you cross them. He’s too big for them though.

Not sure who you’re referring to on the flip side of your comment, but the same probably holds true there. The elites with the megaphone have forgiven him.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I can see why you would think this. Americans have forgiven Mel Gibson though. One big proof of this is that cable movie stations play his movies frequently, possibly more than any other living actor’s except for Clint Wastwood–Death Wish, Brave Heart, We Were Soldiers, etc., are shown on at least one channel at least once a month and frequently more. That shows that he gets big ratings. I, personally, don’t know anyone who doesn’t like Mel Gibson or his movies.

It’s the small group of Hollywood and media elites who have the megaphone that want him ruined–the “tolerant” Left. They NEVER forgive if you cross them. He’s too big for them though.

I am sure you meant Eastwood-not Wastwood. I don’t know just because the cable companies play his movies has anything to do with the American public forgiving him. Many Americans have moved on.
They might have a different opinion of Mel Gibson since he was a happy married father of how many ever kids he has. And the incident with the police officer or highway patrol where he was inebriated.
Mel Gibson is a great actor and starred in some great movies. Braveheart was good, but one of my favorites was Signs where he is a single dad who has lost his faith after his wife dies in a freak accident. He can’t forgive God and no longer wants to be an Episcopal priest.
He won’t pray anymore. Some extraterrestrials visit planet earth and he and his family struggle for their survival. The movie is about loss, forgiveness, questioning God, reconciling with God. Highly recommended. It is more than a science fiction movie. That is just the backdrop.
Nobody is perfect. I know I was disappointed with the things I read about what he said and incidents with the mother of his new baby.
I don’t know what was happening in his personal life, but yeah, Hollywood bigwigs can be pretty unforgiving. Most of them are liberals and they are pretty powerful!

 

[MarkR]

I am sure you meant Eastwood-not Wastwood. I don’t know just because the cable companies play his movies has anything to do with the American public forgiving him. Many Americans have moved on.
They might have a different opinion of Mel Gibson since he was a happy married father of how many ever kids he has. And the incident with the police officer or highway patrol where he was inebriated.
Mel Gibson is a great actor and starred in some great movies. Braveheart was good, but one of my favorites was Signs where he is a single dad who has lost his faith after his wife dies in a freak accident. He can’t forgive God and no longer wants to be an Episcopal priest.
He won’t pray anymore. Some extraterrestrials visit planet earth and he and his family struggle for their survival. The movie is about loss, forgiveness, questioning God, reconciling with God. Highly recommended. It is more than a science fiction movie. That is just the backdrop.
Nobody is perfect. I know I was disappointed with the things I read about what he said and incidents with the mother of his new baby.
I don’t know what was happening in his personal life, but yeah, Hollywood bigwigs can be pretty unforgiving. Most of them are liberals and they are pretty powerful!

Wow. What a type-o. The E and the W key are next to each other (lol). Yup I meant Eastwood (sorry Clint). Can’t edit it now for some reason. I waited too long.

That they show his movies so much shows that people still like to see him. I think people look at him differently, kind of like a friend with problems, but they see his movies. Hollywood and the media wanted him expunged. He was to be viewed by all as Anathema. I know many people from different backgrounds, ethnicities, etc., and I don’t know any who don’t like the guy–they think he’s a little…“quirky” now, but they like him. I was disappointed too, but I’ve had my own problems living out my faith. No one tortures Mel more than Mel imo. I’m not trying to minimize what he’s done, but you know he’s not proud of it and has paid a price. He has to work out his own salvation like the rest of us.

I like Signs too. Very Christian theme to it on many levels as there is in many of his movies. What kills the aliens, for example, is water, i.e. baptism, etc.

To put it very simplistically, to me there are two types of Catholics–a Jim Caviesel Catholic who just seem plugged into God and serene, and a Mel Gibson Catholic, those who kick at the goads and struggle all the way. I have a lot of sympathy for (and in common with) the latter. I understand that Gibson now attends a Latin Mass in a chapel he built on his property. He can’t, and knows he can’t, receive Communion, but he still goes. That says something.