Melkite Eucharist

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Badaliyyah

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I am in liturgy trivia mode today I think…

anyway, my impression is that the Melkite practice of intinction (priest individually dipping the pieces of bread in the wine and placing them on the tongues of the individual supplicants) is relatively recent and that prior to the 20th century we received the Eucharist as you would find in any other Orthodox and Rus Catholic Church…off a spoon. Does anyone know when/why the change was made?

salaam.
 
I’m willing to bet it was introduced about the same time that “fingers” were to accomodate larger numbers of communicants than were found in a typical Orthodox parish once upon a time.

Orthodox generally solve the problem by cutting out bigger lambs; among the Orthodox only the Lamb is consecrated.

And I just remembered–I asked this question of a Melkite priest, and was told it’s been done about 60 years.

At least one Melkite priest, to my knowledge still uses the spoon.
 
bpbasilphx said:
I’m willing to bet it was introduced about the same time that “fingers” were to accomodate larger numbers of communicants than were found in a typical Orthodox parish once upon a time.

Orthodox generally solve the problem by cutting out bigger lambs; among the Orthodox only the Lamb is consecrated.

And I just remembered–I asked this question of a Melkite priest, and was told it’s been done about 60 years.

At least one Melkite priest, to my knowledge still uses the spoon.
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thanks. that’s very interesting. 🙂

salaam.
 
Hi

I was under the impression that the Melkite intinction was an ancient practice that was carried over from the Syro-Antiochene tradition when the Melkites adopted the Constantinopolitan tradition.

How do the Antiochian Orthodox commune?

God bless,

Rony
 
ronyodish said:
Hi

I was under the impression that the Melkite intinction was an ancient practice that was carried over from the Syro-Antiochene tradition when the Melkites adopted the Constantinopolitan tradition.

How do the Antiochian Orthodox commune?

God bless,

Rony
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The spoon, in every one I have been to (others please say if you have same/different experience).

As far as I know, we (Melkites) used the spoon until relatively recently.

What is the practice of the Syrian Orthodox, just out of curiousity?

salaam.
 
Badaliyyah said:
The spoon, in every one I have been to (others please say if you have same/different experience).

As far as I know, we (Melkites) used the spoon until relatively recently.

What is the practice of the Syrian Orthodox, just out of curiousity?

salaam.
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I happen to be Antiochian Orthodox- we commune via spoon. 😃
 
ronyodish said:
Hi

I was under the impression that the Melkite intinction was an ancient practice that was carried over from the Syro-Antiochene tradition when the Melkites adopted the Constantinopolitan tradition.

How do the Antiochian Orthodox commune?

God bless,

Rony
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I happen to be Antiochian Orthodox- we commune via spoon. 😃
 
I don’t know if this has relevance, but we Copts communicate, as far as I have seen, the same way that the Catholic Latins do - either by the priest administering on the tongue, or by taking it in the hands. Taking it in the hands is now rare, but Copts recognize this as the more ancient practice. The current practice of taking it directly from the priest dates to the start of the second millenium.

The picture of the Syrian Orthodox given by brother Rony is poignant. I wonder how the Armenians do it. I wonder how the Maronites do it. I guess I wonder if this is a general difference between Orientals/Westerns on the one hand, and the Easterns on the other. Do ALL Easterns/Byzantines communicate by intinction?

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Brother mardukm:

Keep in mind that in the Latin Church the universal norm is to receive Our Lord kneeling and on the tongue. An INDULT (that is, basically “Latin economy”) from the Law allows the faithful to receive standing and on the tongue in many countries. The Holy Father has recently requested that those who receive from him at papal masses do so according to the universal norm of kneeling and on the tongue. (See the papal mass at World Youth Day in Sydney). In my own diocese a few parishes practice the universal norm while most practice the indult norms. Our cathedral, interestingly, allows for both. (You may kneel on either side of the sanctuary along the altar rail or you may line up along the centre aisle and receive standing).

In addition, receiving by intinction is allowed by the Latin rubics. I have received this way a couple times. The priest dips the Host in the Precious Blood and places the Host on the tongue. When Holy Communion is distributed in this way, the faithful may receive standing or kneeling but may never receive on the hand.
 
Dear brother Tyler
twf said:
Keep in mind that in the Latin Church the universal norm is to receive Our Lord kneeling and on the tongue. An INDULT (that is, basically “Latin economy”) from the Law allows the faithful to receive standing and on the tongue in many countries. The Holy Father has recently requested that those who receive from him at papal masses do so according to the universal norm of kneeling and on the tongue. (See the papal mass at World Youth Day in Sydney). In my own diocese a few parishes practice the universal norm while most practice the indult norms. Our cathedral, interestingly, allows for both. (You may kneel on either side of the sanctuary along the altar rail or you may line up along the centre aisle and receive standing).

In addition, receiving by intinction is allowed by the Latin rubics. I have received this way a couple times. The priest dips the Host in the Precious Blood and places the Host on the tongue. When Holy Communion is distributed in this way, the faithful may receive standing or kneeling but may never receive on the hand.
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Thank you for that information about the Latins practicing intinction. I never knew that - all the Latin parishes I have been to communicate the body and blood separately.

I also want to clarify to all that Copts do not practice intinction. We take the body and blood separately. We use the spoon to take the blood.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm:

It’s not common. I received that way on Holy Thursday this past year at my diocese’s St. Michael’s parish. In my diocese the chalice is generally not distributed. Receiving the Host alone is the norm. I find intinction a very reverent and simple way to receive Our Lord under both species.
 
mardukm said:
Do ALL Easterns/Byzantines communicate by intinction?

Blessings,
Marduk
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The normal mode of communion for Byzantine Christians, whether Orthodox or Catholic is…

the bread and wine are mixed together in the chalice and served by the priest to the communicant on the spoon.

The Melkite practice of intinction is recent. bpbasilphx’s explanation (post #2) of why it is done that way is as good as any and seems plausible.

salaam.
 
mardukm said:
I don’t know if this has relevance, but we Copts communicate, as far as I have seen, the same way that the Catholic Latins do - either by the priest administering on the tongue, or by taking it in the hands. Taking it in the hands is now rare, but Copts recognize this as the more ancient practice. The current practice of taking it directly from the priest dates to the start of the second millenium.

The picture of the Syrian Orthodox given by brother Rony is poignant. I wonder how the Armenians do it. I wonder how the Maronites do it. I guess I wonder if this is a general difference between Orientals/Westerns on the one hand, and the Easterns on the other. Do ALL Easterns/Byzantines communicate by intinction?

Blessings,
Marduk
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Curious, are you Coptic Catholic or Coptic Orthodox?
 
We in the Church of the East have also received the body and blood separately.

Peace,
 
Dear brother Anthony,
antgaria said:
We in the Church of the East have also received the body and blood separately.
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Thank you so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut! It is indeed helpful. Please read my next post to brother Badaliyyah.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Dear brother Badaliyyah,
Badaliyyah said:
The normal mode of communion for Byzantine Christians, whether Orthodox or Catholic is…

the bread and wine are mixed together in the chalice and served by the priest to the communicant on the spoon.

The Melkite practice of intinction is recent. bpbasilphx’s explanation (post #2) of why it is done that way is as good as any and seems plausible.
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I don’t know. It seems to me that taking from the spoon with the species previously commingled would be more efficient if it was a matter of accomodating larger numbers.

I guess my next question would be - when did the Byzantines start the practice of commingling?

Judging from brother Anthony’s most recent post, it seems the reception of the species separately is the more ancient practice.

Was the practice of commingling always regionally conditioned? Or was commingling a later development in Byzantine Christianity?

Blessings,
Marduk
 
I think you can still use a straw in the Latin rite.

Many of these practices have changed but still allowed.

Personally, I think it would be interesting for the spoon to be used, but as Latin Rite Catholic I am not used to it and I probably will move.

When I was a little kid I would bite the minister. :o
 
We in the Church of the East have also received the body and blood separately.
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I found a clip on youtube of the CotE practice (around the 6th minute):

youtube.com/watch?v=u3kzhTOvZrQ

Currently in the eparchial cathedral in San Diego, the practice is that of intinction, but the traditional CotE practice is that which is shown by the youtube clip. I take it that the parishes under His Grace Mar Bawai, which recently united with the eparchy, still maintain the traditional practice.

As for intinction, I always thought that it originated with the Antiochenes, but I’m not certain on this.
When I was a little kid I would bite the minister. :o
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lol, my little sister still does that sometimes, and she’s 27 years old 😃

God bless,

Rony
 
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