Membership in Freemason Lodge or Rosicrucians

[lutheran_farmer]

If you read up on the history of the Freemasons and Catholics, it isn’t a friendly one. Masons teamed up with the KKK and were at odds with Catholics through most of the 20th century. They went after the KoC aggressively using false accusations. They spoke out against blacks, Germans and Jews during the 20th century (maybe that’s why they were on the Lutherans bad side as well?). I wouldn’t want anything to do with such a group.

I don’t have much use for groups like that. My anti-Catholic grandfather was a Freemason and made quite degrading comments to my Catholic father. It doesn’t surprise knowing what I do now of the Masons and their ilk. My grandmother was also in the DAR, but the DAR members I met were unpleasant, plus the DAR has had some very well-known racist incidents in the past. No thank you.

 

[DharmaBum]

I won’t dispute the fact that the Catholic Church and, as you rightly pointed out, some others have forbidden membership in Freemasonry. Several reasons were given which were well referenced and quite correct. What happens so often, however, is that someone will then give reasons based on misinformation or that are outright false because they have an unfavorable opinion. This has nothing to do with religion or my own views, it has to do with how we have civil discourse on a forum. It has happened in this thread.

I don’t care who is or is not a Mason or Rosicurian, and I think the explanation has been covered. I just don’t like to see false accusations made for no productive purpose.

 

[Honorius]

Both you and Dharma are not Catholic, the question by OP was why Christians are not suppose to join free masonry. Some of the posters supplied very good links as to what different Popes have stated and issued concerning Catholic membership in free masonry. Now and based on your posts, you don’t have a conflict with it or don’t see membership as wrong. That is your option but what at least in terms of the Catholic church, it is a grave matter. I will stand with what the Catholic Church say and teaches.

I do not believe I said membership was wrong. I do think it is wrong because it promotes universalism. I simply said membership was not wrong based on the belief that they were satanic or of the occult.

 

[hn160]

I was a Mason when I was an ELCA Lutheran, but when I joined a LC-MS congregation, the pastor said that I would have to resign from the Lodge because it was not a Christian group but a Dietists. When I thought about it, the pastor was right.

 

[Nacho45]

I was a Mason when I was an ELCA Lutheran, but when I joined a LC-MS congregation, the pastor said that I would have to resign from the Lodge because it was not a Christian group but a Dietists. When I thought about it, the pastor was right.

Similar for me only I decided myself I had everything I needed in the Church and while I think they are a fine secular group, I just no longer had a desire to be a member. As a Christian I feel we should seek out Christian organizations with which to be involved. I have nothing against Freemasons, but I personally no longer belong there. And if the Catholic Church says not to join, that is the answer.

 

[cmodrmac]

the questions was phrased " why are Christians"

It is clear the the RCC forbids membership but not all Christians-although I must say that I knowof no members in my conregation who are Masons or Rosicrucians-never heard a word spoken about it

-

 

[robwar]

the questions was phrased " why are Christians"

It is clear the the RCC forbids membership but not all Christians-although I must say that I knowof no members in my conregation who are Masons or Rosicrucians-never heard a word spoken about it

-

there were Masons in the Methodist Church I was raised in. One woman who lead a study group for teens had a husband who was a Mason. I think it depends on the Christian group. Only in charismatic circles as well as in the Catholic Church was there concerns and warnings raised. The Catholic Church is pretty clear. While Op asked as a general question of Christians, they did ask on a Catholic forum which should account for at least the Catholic church response.

 

[drew_neill]

If you read up on the history of the Freemasons and Catholics, it isn’t a friendly one. Masons teamed up with the KKK and were at odds with Catholics through most of the 20th century. They went after the KoC aggressively using false accusations. They spoke out against blacks, Germans and Jews during the 20th century (maybe that’s why they were on the Lutherans bad side as well?). I wouldn’t want anything to do with such a group.

I don’t have much use for groups like that. My anti-Catholic grandfather was a Freemason and made quite degrading comments to my Catholic father. It doesn’t surprise knowing what I do now of the Masons and their ilk. My grandmother was also in the DAR, but the DAR members I met were unpleasant, plus the DAR has had some very well-known racist incidents in the past. No thank you.

Oh my goodness let’s not bring up skeletons in the closet… The Church has plenty that can be mentioned…

 

[RC_Sojourner]

Both you and Dharma are not Catholic, the question by OP was why Christians are not suppose to join free masonry. Some of the posters supplied very good links as to what different Popes have stated and issued concerning Catholic membership in free masonry. Now and based on your posts, you don’t have a conflict with it or don’t see membership as wrong. That is your option but what at least in terms of the Catholic church, it is a grave matter. I will stand with what the Catholic Church say and teaches.

Amen, I for one am quite frankly astounded at many of the responses on here. People talking of how they’re interested in going to museums which sell propaganda about masonic groups. I don’t know what a “Rosacrucian” is, but I can tell you that it probably falls under the Church’s broader terminology of “Masonic Associations”. The Church doesn’t want to have to denounce every brand of them… and I would ask a priest if the Shriners fall under that classification as well. Because, there have been threads on this forum about that being the case (I could be wrong).

I personally think that the Church needs to be more vocal about this. I mean, look at the confusion on this thread alone! Freemasonry, or anything masonic is viewed in the most negative of lights by the Church. It’s disheartening to me to see Catholics making rather lukewarm statements on this.

Personally, when I see a masonic bumper sticker on someone’s car, I cringe. When I drive past a masonic “temple” I normally exclaim: “Domine Jesu!”, cross myself and pray.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

I was referring specifically to the charge that allegiance to the fraternity rather than one’s house of worship is encouraged. One of the main principles is an emphasis on God, family, and fraternity—in that order.** I would encourage a reading of Freemasons For
Dummies by Christopher Hodapp** for some practical, well researched information on the subject.

**
I would not encourage reading “Freemasons for Dummies” or anything else about them that includes any view of them that is not Catholic. I have no doubt that such a book would be on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum** [List of Prohibited Books], if the Church still had one. I say this out of concern for the salvation of my fellow Catholics, and that concern I extend also to all people.

I will not encourage any man to sin. So, I will therefore extend this advice to all people, not only Catholics.

 

[DharmaBum]

I don’t think educating one’s self before commenting about a subject on a forum for all to see is considered a sin. Sometimes common sense and reason must be a guide. Why would a book whose aim is to educate be forbidden?

 

[RC_Sojourner]

I do not believe I said membership was wrong. I do think it is wrong because it promotes universalism. I simply said membership was not wrong based on the belief that they were satanic or of the occult.

Though I trust many of you have read the EWTN article I posted, just in case some people reading this have not… do not let this post by Honorius lead you to think that Freemasonry, and all masonic associations are not gravely evil.

As far as I know, the Catholic Church does not say that Freemasons or any other masons are linked to the occult. But, it does freely use the word evil to describe it:

“The Masonic “God” is an <idol.>** What the Masons really worship is —or the Spirit who has deceived man from the beginning: the masked Spirit of Evil. **This is the one primal reason why the Catholic Church has condemned, and will always condemn, Freemasonry.”

"the Masonic violation of the First Commandment, is its violation of the Second Commandment by its gravely evil misuse of oaths. The famous (or, rather, infamous) oaths that run through the entire ritual of Masonic initiation are more than mere promises based on personal honor. They formally invoke the Deity, and have for their object a man’s total commitment to a cause under the direst sanctions. The Catholic Church sees in such oaths an inescapable grave evil."

"To conclude: we Catholics should now see the Masons more clearly for what they essentially are. They are the heirs (unwitting or otherwise is irrelevant) of a religion which purports to be the one religion of the one “God”—and therefore the enemy, intrinsically and implacably so, of Catholicism."
**
Masons are essentially, intrinsically, and implacably the enemies of Catholicism.**

And, I’ll note that implacably basically means that there can be no reconciliation between the Catholic Church and Masons. There is nothing they can do as masons to change the Church’s condemnation of them, they must cease to be masons, or the Church’s condemnation of them will stand.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

Why would a book whose aim is to educate be forbidden?

You could say that about any book. Quite frankly, I think my response is a response you would get for recommending any book that in some way is in some way contrary to the Catholic faith. Is the Gospel of Thomas educational? How about the Davinci Code? 50 Shades of Gray, or any other such pornographic sludge?

You have the freedom to read any of those books, the Church no longer keeps the Index Librorum Prohibitum. However, encouraging to read those books on this forum will undoubtedly be met by responses like mine.

DharmaBum:

I don’t think educating one’s self before commenting about a subject on a forum for all to see is considered a sin.

I’m not saying that it is a sin to read that book. I was referring to this:
The 9 Ways We Participate in Others’ Sins
By counsel
By command
By consent
By provocation
By praise or flattery
By concealment
By partaking
By silence
By defense of the ill done

I can’t definitively speak on whether reading that book is a sin. But, I think it is a possibility that a priest could tell me that encouraging someone to read that book would be counseling them to sin. My posts on this are to avoid participating in this sin by my silence.

IF it is a sin, and IF people do it, it will certainly not be due to any fault of mine… including my silence.

Saint Michael the Archangel, Defend us in battle…

 

[DharmaBum]

I think the stance if the Catholic Church has been made quite clear a number of times on this thread and is not in question. However, the OP asked why Christians in General would be forbidden. I commend you for your stance as it is certainly in line with the referenced material, which I have read. For the broader response one may want to gain some knowledge about the fraternity and other views. With all due respect, we don’t all rely on papal bulls to inform our decisions.

 

[freeRadical]

You could say that about any book. Quite frankly, I think my response is a response you would get for recommending any book that in some way is in some way contrary to the Catholic faith. Is the Gospel of Thomas educational? How about the Davinci Code? 50 Shades of Gray, or any other such pornographic sludge?

You have the freedom to read any of those books, the Church no longer keeps the Index Librorum Prohibitum. However, encouraging to read those books on this forum will undoubtedly be met by responses like mine.

I’m not saying that it is a sin to read that book. I was referring to this:
The 9 Ways We Participate in Others’ Sins
By counsel
By command
By consent
By provocation
By praise or flattery
By concealment
By partaking
By silence
By defense of the ill done

I can’t definitively speak on whether reading that book is a sin. But, I think it is a possibility that a priest could tell me that encouraging someone to read that book would be counseling them to sin. My posts on this are to avoid participating in this sin by my silence.

IF it is a sin, and IF people do it, it will certainly not be due to any fault of mine… including my silence.

Saint Michael the Archangel, Defend us in battle…

I think it would be prudent for all Catholics to read Anti-Catholic books. The first rule of combat is to know your enemy. I read Anti-Catholic books to find out what arguments they use so I am better prepared to counter them. People that are afraid to read Anti-Catholic books because it might cause them to sin or lose faith must have very shaky faith to begin with. People that encourage other not to read Anti-Catholic books because they think they might cause the other person to sin or lose faith do not think very highly of the faith of these people. I don’t understand what is to gain by avoiding Anti-Catholic books besides ignorance of your enemies. The best way to battle your enemies is to know their strengths and weaknesses. That way you are better able to counter their arguments and help others see the errors in their arguments. Ignoring these books out of fear does not help one grow spiritually and it does not help one help other grow spirituality. In order to expose the lies we must know what the lies are.

Know thy enemy.

 

[new_atheist]

My apologies to everyone in this thread. I didn’t realise this would end in a heated debate. The reason I asked this question in the first place is because of my experience with members of my extended family and close family. My late father-in-law (who passed away on Christmas, 2012) was an ex-Freemason who left the lodge upon advice of the parish priest. He and his wife, my mother-in-law, were active members of the Catholic Church. Some of my late uncles (who were in the academia, the legal and political field and the military) were Freemasons and they also belonged to the Catholic and other Christian churches. Me (a health professional) and my brother (a police superintendent) were also asked to join the Freemasons once in the past. My brother declined because he was active with his Christian church while I chickened out at the last minute after hearing about the ritual initiations. My father had subscribed to Rosicrucian literature in the past (Rose and Cruix) but is now a Eucharist minister.

Happy New Year to everyone, hope everyone gets along well and I wish for the best this coming year 2014.

 

[robwar]

My apologies to everyone in this thread. I didn’t realise this would end in a heated debate. The reason I asked this question in the first place is because of my experience with members of my extended family and close family. My late father-in-law (who passed away on Christmas, 2012) was an ex-Freemason who left the lodge upon advice of the parish priest. He and his wife, my mother-in-law, were active members of the Catholic Church. Some of my late uncles (who were in the academia, the legal and political field and the military) were Freemasons and they also belonged to the Catholic and other Christian churches. Me (a health professional) and my brother (a police superintendent) were also asked to join the Freemasons once in the past. My brother declined because he was active with his Christian church while I chickened out at the last minute after hearing about the ritual initiations. My father had subscribed to Rosicrucian literature in the past (Rose and Cruix) but is now a Eucharist minister.

Happy New Year to everyone, hope everyone gets along well and I wish for the best this coming year 2014.

Actually, I think you asked a good question and hopefully some of the links supplied were helpful to you. Only two posters were pro-masons and both of them are not Catholic. Have a good year.

 

[robwar]

I think it would be prudent for all Catholics to read Anti-Catholic books. The first rule of combat is to know your enemy. I read Anti-Catholic books to find out what arguments they use so I am better prepared to counter them. People that are afraid to read Anti-Catholic books because it might cause them to sin or lose faith must have very shaky faith to begin with. People that encourage other not to read Anti-Catholic books because they think they might cause the other person to sin or lose faith do not think very highly of the faith of these people. I don’t understand what is to gain by avoiding Anti-Catholic books besides ignorance of your enemies. The best way to battle your enemies is to know their strengths and weaknesses. That way you are better able to counter their arguments and help others see the errors in their arguments. Ignoring these books out of fear does not help one grow spiritually and it does not help one help other grow spirituality. In order to expose the lies we must know what the lies are.

Know thy enemy.

I don’t have to drink poison to know it is bad for me. Unless one is very much a very well established apologist, it is a bad idea to “read” anti-Catholic books or books that teach heresy and error. To know the truth one needs to study that and that in it of itself is a life time of reading and study.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

People that are afraid to read Anti-Catholic books because it might cause them to sin or lose faith must have very shaky faith to begin with. People that encourage other not to read Anti-Catholic books because they think they might cause the other person to sin or lose faith do not think very highly of the faith of these people.

Read those two lines and ask yourself who is the one that views other people’s faith as shaky?

I’m not saying it might cause someone to sin, I’m saying it might be a sin in and of itself. It’s not about what you or I think, it’s about what the Church thinks. Ask your parish priest if they think you should be recommending other Catholics to study up on freemasonry.

This is from an Examination of Conscience: **“Did I put my faith in danger-without a good reason-by reading a book, pamphlet, or magazine that contains material contrary to Catholic faith or morals?”
**
You don’t seem to have a good reason to me to be reading about masons. Again, I’d ask a priest first. Please. I’m not debating you over this, I’m warning you for the sake of your own soul. Please, ask a priest if this is really an acceptable road to go down.

DharmaBum:

With all due respect, we don’t all rely on papal bulls to inform our decisions.

Obviously not everyone does. But the purpose of Papal Bulls is to declare what the Church’s stance is. And, in the Church’s eyes when a Papal Bull is issued that means there’s no room for discussion on those issues.

Laity can go against the Vatican’s warning all they want and discuss gay marriage, women’s ordination, or free masons, but I guarantee you one thing: those discussions aren’t happening in the Vatican.

Roma Locuta Causa Finita.
Rome has spoken, the case is closed.

If the Vatican prefers to end debates before they even begin by pointing to heir own authority in a heavy-handed way, then I’ll gladly do the same by constantly pointing to that authority. And by saying, in discussing some things, you fall outside the good graces of Rome.

[Very applicable to an Episcopalian, I know. ]

Nevertheless, for all Catholics reading this, I feel obligated to inform them of the weight of this topic… to inform them just how strongly the Church’s condemnation here is.

 

[drew_neill]

The papacy has never issued a bull against freemasonry, merely encyclicals.