Membership in Freemason Lodge or Rosicrucians

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drew_neill said:
The papacy has never issued a bull against freemasonry, merely encyclicals.
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However the teaching of the Catholic church is very clear - no bull is required. My own church forbids membership in Masonry for mostly valid reasons: in that if you take Masonry at face value, it’s a weird little cult that will kill you in your sleep and of course you’d stay away.

As a Mason I know perfectly well it’s an odd fraternity made up in the 17th century with over-dramatized and baroque plays designed to impress rather good morals upon men.

Even given that, there are dangers - I my opinion the heresy of universalism is primary.

In my opinion on a practical level is that when we should really be fearful about Masonry is if anybody they know and love takes it too seriously, and they should be especially concerned about anybody or group that splits off and take the Masonic ritual as some sort of religious experience… I’m looking at you Joseph Smith.
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My lodge has several Catholics in it, and as I understand it, they reconcile the prohibition on Masonic membership with the fact they would immediately remove themselves if they ever found the premise of the Church’s logic correct.

My pastor has allowed me to stay and gave me a list of things of things to watch out for – I’m to leave if I find any thing contrary to the faith.

The irony of the Masonic oath (to frequent my house of worship) that lead me me become a practicing member of the church that now forbids my membership is rather amusing.
 
I was, prior to becoming Catholic, a Freemason for over 30 years, and an officer of my lodge. Of the hundreds (maybe thousands) of Masons I;ve met, I’d say 90% were Christians (including a few Catholics) and 10% Jewish.

To become a Mason you must profess a belief in God, and trust in him. The men in my own lodge were all Christians, attended church every Sunday, and exhibited Christian values. Masonry is a charitable organization, using it’s time and funds for various worthy charities.

Once a month our lodge traveled to a VA hospital to assist the disabled vets to get to church services.

Not trying to sell Masonry here - I know the Catholic church doesn’t want us to belong, so I don’t any more. I’m just pointing out that the only “secrets” are the passwords, rituals, etc. Lodge meetings are very boring business meetings, nothing exciting there. Lots of good people belong.

The rituals, by the way, are based on the building of the temple in Jerusalem… Lots of biblical references.

No satanism, no conspiracies, just a social organization that does good work for charity.
 
robwar said:
Yes, they promote themselves as just a fraternity but their vows and rituals are occultic and they claim the go back to ancient Egypt. Plus the secrecy and levels and degrees as ones goes deeper into masonry demand that one becomes more loyal to the organization than their faith
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Just plain false… The rituals go back to the Temple in Jerusalem, and depict stories of the Temple being built.

Occultic? HA! Nothing of the kind! :rolleyes:

In Masonry, members are always to put God first.

No, it is not a specifically Christian organization. So what? Neither is my first aid squad, fire department, or Boy Scout troop. Not everything has to be Christian to be good or useful.
 
captainrick said:
Just plain false… The rituals go back to the Temple in Jerusalem, and depict stories of the Temple being built.

Occultic? HA! Nothing of the kind! :rolleyes:

In Masonry, members are always to put God first.

No, it is not a specifically Christian organization. So what? Neither is my first aid squad, fire department, or Boy Scout troop. Not everything has to be Christian to be good or useful.
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does your first aid squad claim all gods are equal?
 
As had been pointed out in this thread, Masons admit men of all backgrounds with the condition that they have a belief in a higher power. They encourage men to be morally upright and do a LOT of charity work. It is not a religion and does not teach the superiority of one god or another, as this concept is even approached. It’s like AA in this respect, and that’s also why some religious organizations view it as incompatible. The church declaring something that doesn’t teach it’s doctrine as outside the faith isn’t unusual or new. Nobody disputes this. However, the church can claim that Masonry is a religion—it is not. I don’t get my plumbing information from electricians and I don’t get all of my information about Masons from the church.
 
DharmaBum said:
As had been pointed out in this thread, Masons admit men of all backgrounds with the condition that they have a belief in a higher power. They encourage men to be morally upright and do a LOT of charity work. It is not a religion and does not teach rthe superiority of one god or another, as this concept is even approached. It’s like AA in this respect, and that’s also why some religious organizations view it as incompatible. The church declaring something that doesn’t teach it’s doctrine as outside the faith isn’t unusual or new. Nobody disputes this. However, the church can claim that Masonry is a religion—it is not. I don’t get my plumbing information from electricians and I don’t get all of my information about Masons from the church.
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Perfect explanation…
 
the church teaches more than
it’s doctrine as outside the faith
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it excommunicates those that are masons.
“higher power” can be satan
as you say I wouldn’t go to a plumber for electrical work neither would I take a masons word above the church’s on spiritual matters.
 
DharmaBum said:
As had been pointed out in this thread, Masons admit men of all backgrounds with the condition that they have a belief in a higher power. They encourage men to be morally upright and do a LOT of charity work. It is not a religion and does not teach the superiority of one god or another, as this concept is even approached. It’s like AA in this respect, and that’s also why some religious organizations view it as incompatible. The church declaring something that doesn’t teach it’s doctrine as outside the faith isn’t unusual or new. Nobody disputes this. However, the church can claim that Masonry is a religion—it is not. I don’t get my plumbing information from electricians and I don’t get all of my information about Masons from the church.
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the church teaches more than
it’s doctrine as outside the faith
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it excommunicates those that are masons.
“higher power” can be satan
as you say I wouldn’t go to a plumber for electrical work neither would I take a masons word above the church’s on spiritual matters. if the church says freemasons is satanic, its satanic
 
saveusfromhell said:
the church teaches more than it excommunicates those that are masons.
“higher power” can be satan
as you say I wouldn’t go to a plumber for electrical work neither would I take a masons word above the church’s on spiritual matters. if the church says freemasons is satanic, its satanic
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Exactly where does the Church say masonry is satanic?
By the way, European and UK masonry is quite different than in the U.S.
 
It doesn’t say satanic in any of the encyclicals. That would make you in error.

As has been pointed out ad nauseum, the position of the church is not in question. Nobody on this thread is disputing it and to continually restate it is of no use.

You cannot, as nobody outside of a Mason can, approach the position of Freemasons with any real knowledge. The nature of the prohibition of your church dictates this. I have suggested reading material here and been basically condemned to hell for even suggesting it. You obviously don’t know anything about the subject except what your church has said ( I am questioning if you even read that based on the statement you made). The point that Catholics cannot be Masons is clear—there are many, but that is not the point. Any further statements about what Masons do by someone from the outside and forbidden to join is conjecture. Of all places, an apologetics site is no place for this.
 
DharmaBum said:
It doesn’t say satanic in any of the encyclicals. That would make you in error.

As has been pointed out ad nauseum, the position of the church is not in question. Nobody on this thread is disputing it and to continually restate it is of no use.

You cannot, as nobody outside of a Mason can, approach the position of Freemasons with any real knowledge. The nature of the prohibition of your church dictates this. I have suggested reading material here and been basically condemned to hell for even suggesting it. You obviously don’t know anything about the subject except what your church has said ( I am questioning if you even read that based on the statement you made). The point that Catholics cannot be Masons is clear—there are many, but that is not the point. Any further statements about what Masons do by someone from the outside and forbidden to join is conjecture. Of all places, an apologetics site is no place for this.
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Since the Catholic church is clear that Catholics are not to belong, then why are you as a non-Catholic even care what the Catholic church as well as Orthodox and even Lutheran and other Chrisitian churches have said that membership is incompatible with practice of their faith. Sorry, shouldn’t be encouraging Catholics to go against what their church say. Now obviously you disagree with that but that is your choice. I think I will stand with what the Church says.
 
Spreading false, unfounded information about anyone or anything is wrong wether Catholic or not. You did that early on, which is when I decided to get on this thread. Look at the thread. I have not encouraged anyone to do anything but educate themselves. I know the stance of the church, and I have already stated that I don’t care who is or is not a Mason.
 
DharmaBum said:
Spreading false, unfounded information about anyone or anything is wrong wether Catholic or not. You did that early on, which is when I decided to get on this thread. Look at the thread. I have not encouraged anyone to do anything but educate themselves. I know the stance of the church, and I have already stated that I don’t care who is or is not a Mason.
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the accusation of occultic rituals have been made by ex members who have left the Masons and have written books about their experiences. I was repeating what they have said from their experiences. If the rituals were above board then why all the secrecy and not do them out in the open? Likewise the claim that those rituals are from solomon’s temple or that time which some of the posters here have claimed is equally dubious and there is no proof for it. Now yes there are Catholics that have joined but I will stand with what the Church teaches and if all those rituals and rights and degrees are so wholesome and good and all above board, then the Catholic Church wouldn’t have condemned membership as a grave matter. Some Protestant shows have reinacted some the the intials rites on tv and they do seem a little strange to say the least. The only people getting testy on this thread are the obvious Masons.
 
If you’re counting me among them, wrong again.

I can say anything without backing it up to make any point.
 
By the way, the original question I asked you was to show where the fraternity asks men to move closer to it instead of their faith. False.

I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree since you are not reading my responses for meaning and continue to make unfounded accusations.
 
captainrick said:
I was, prior to becoming Catholic, a Freemason for over 30 years, and an officer of my lodge. Of the hundreds (maybe thousands) of Masons I;ve met, I’d say 90% were Christians (including a few Catholics) and 10% Jewish.

To become a Mason you must profess a belief in God, and trust in him. The men in my own lodge were all Christians, attended church every Sunday, and exhibited Christian values. Masonry is a charitable organization, using it’s time and funds for various worthy charities.

Once a month our lodge traveled to a VA hospital to assist the disabled vets to get to church services.

Not trying to sell Masonry here - I know the Catholic church doesn’t want us to belong, so I don’t any more. I’m just pointing out that the only “secrets” are the passwords, rituals, etc. Lodge meetings are very boring business meetings, nothing exciting there. Lots of good people belong.

The rituals, by the way, are based on the building of the temple in Jerusalem… Lots of biblical references.

No satanism, no conspiracies, just a social organization that does good work for charity.
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There are no good people. All people are sinners. Don’t fall into that common secularist rhetoric “well, he does charitable work, therefore he must be a good person”… No.

Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down to us from the Father of Lights- James 1:17
For I know that good does not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh… - Romans 7:18

If you do good, it is because Christ does good through you. Christ, and the Triune God are responsible for all good in the world.

Also from the same Examination of Conscience I last referenced: "Did I endanger my faith by joining or attending meetings of organizations opposed to the Catholic faith (non-catholic services, the Communist Party, Freemasonry, “new age” cults, or other religions)? Did I take part in one of its activities?"

I’m sure you’re aware of that. To do any of the above is a violation of the First Commandment, and a sin.

Also, the Church does call Freemasonry a religion. Didn’t you read the EWTN article?

I’ll quote again:
"To conclude: we Catholics should now see the Masons more clearly for what they essentially are. They are the heirs (unwitting or otherwise is irrelevant) of a religion which purports to be the one religion of the one “God”—and therefore the enemy, intrinsically and implacably so, of Catholicism."

No, it is not a religion of God, but a religion that worships man. Again, those are not my words, but the words of a priest:

"The Masonic “God” is an <idol.> What the Masons really worship is —or the Spirit who has deceived man from the beginning: the masked Spirit of Evil. This is the one primal reason why the Catholic Church has condemned, and will always condemn, Freemasonry."
 
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