Membership in Freemason Lodge or Rosicrucians

[RC_Sojourner]

In Masonry, members are always to put God first.

No, it is not a specifically Christian organization. So what? Neither is my first aid squad, fire department, or Boy Scout troop. Not everything has to be Christian to be good or useful.

Think of the Scripture I just quoted, and ask yourself if you are to be the judge of what is good, or is the Church?

Every good and perfect gift comes from God. And His Bride the Church not only considers the organization as evil (sin to belong to), but all of its activities.

Examination of conscience: “Did I take part in one of its [Freemasonry’s] activities?”

In the Church’s eyes it doesn’t matter what activities the Freemasons do, or the Communist Party does… all of those activities are sinful. No matter what they are.

That is Church teaching my friend. Oppose it at your own peril.

 

[robwar]

one of the meanings of the word occult is secrecy or in secrete. the rituals of masonry are in secrete so I stand by my statement that the rituals of masonry are occultic in nature where the people doing them think of it or not. A quick google search on the rituals of masonry will bring up people like John Ankerburg who is no friend of the Catholic Church and he along with a bunch of others like him have numerous articles and even books about the occultic natural of masonry.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

As has been pointed out ad nauseum, the position of the church is not in question. Nobody on this thread is disputing it and to continually restate it is of no use.

As Orthodox Jews continually study Torah, and focus their minds on the memorization and analyzation of those Scriptures, as well as the Talmud, I would say that to continually look at Papal Encyclicals, the Catechism, and everything else of the Magisterium of the Church is a good thing.

Can you read the Bible too much?
Can you have too much knowledge of the faith?

“Why don’t you stop looking at the Church’s position, and let us hear your own thoughts? C’mon friend, EVERYONE on this thread has heard the Church’s position multiple times, why continue to provide it” - Your uncle, Screwtape.

That’s right. See what I did there?

To rehash the Church’s position is a very valuable thing to do. You cannot have too much knowledge of the faith. You cannot have too much knowledge of God. You cannot be too holy.

“Well, we’d make so and so a saint, but they were a little too holy weren’t they?”- SAID NO ONE EVER!

DharmaBum:

of all places, an apologetics site is no place for this.

Wow, it looks like I finally agree with you!

Conjecture about what the Freemasons do is indeed neither here nor there. They are condemned. They can give toys to tots or give money to whatever charity they want… the
Church’s condemnation is about what they believe, not what they do, and what they believe is intrinsically opposed to Catholicism, and for that matter Christianity.

 

[JamezVA]

Ok, I joined this site a few days ago to supplement my conversion to Catholicism. I myself am an acitive Free Mason (AF&AM) in good standing since 2005. If during my introspection into the Catholic Church it becomes necessary for me to leave the Fraternity due to God’s will, I will have no qualms in doing so.

However, just to give you a straight from the horses mouth insight about Freemasonry…we do not worship anyone or anything as “Mason’s.” The rituals you are so worried about have nothing to do with worship of anything or anyone in any sense of the word. The reason that everything is “secret” is because some men prefer to be charitable without receiving public acknowledgment of our charitable deeds. Religion is strictly forbidden from discussion in the Lodge because we as men of different faiths focus our fraternal time on giving to the less fortunate and/or those in need. Someone said earlier that you must have a belief in a “supreme being.” That may be what you have read on the internet but to be clear, you must believe in GOD as a supreme being. Perhaps the reasons to you do not make sense as purgatory does not currently make sense to me. Perhaps through RCIA I will come to an understanding. Unless you are a Mason, you will always make assumptions based on what you read on the internet or hear from other people who are not in the fraternity. The Bible that resides in our lodge to remind us that we are just men on this earth, is the same King James Version that sit in the pews at my Baptist Church.

Pray for me as I pray for you,

James

 

[Honorius]

Though I trust many of you have read the EWTN article I posted, just in case some people reading this have not… do not let this post by Honorius lead you to think that Freemasonry, and all masonic associations are not gravely evil.

Perhaps you could show me where I said that being a Freemason was a good idea? Once again I will say that Masonry is a bad thing to join because it promotes universalism.

As far as I know, the Catholic Church does not say that Freemasons or any other masons are linked to the occult. But, it does freely use the word evil to describe it:

Just because the church does not say it is of the occult or satanic does not mean many people think that is the reason why membership is prohibited

“The Masonic “God” is an <idol.>** What the Masons really worship is —or the Spirit who has deceived man from the beginning: the masked Spirit of Evil. **This is the one primal reason why the Catholic Church has condemned, and will always condemn, Freemasonry.”

Shouldn’t we let the Masons say what God they believe in?

"the Masonic violation of the First Commandment, is its violation of the Second Commandment by its gravely evil misuse of oaths. The famous (or, rather, infamous) oaths that run through the entire ritual of Masonic initiation are more than mere promises based on personal honor. They formally invoke the Deity, and have for their object a man’s total commitment to a cause under the direst sanctions. The Catholic Church sees in such oaths an inescapable grave evil."

I agree, but do we have the actual testimony of someone that has been through these oaths? Anyone can say that about the Masons, but is it really true?

"To conclude: we Catholics should now see the Masons more clearly for what they essentially are. They are the heirs (unwitting or otherwise is irrelevant) of a religion which purports to be the one religion of the one “God”—and therefore the enemy, intrinsically and implacably so, of Catholicism."
**
Masons are essentially, intrinsically, and implacably the enemies of Catholicism.**

What religion are they heirs of exactly? I don’t believe it was mentioned.

I would also like to add that there have not been many mentions of why Catholics cannot be Rosicrucians. I myself would like to know, because it is not as easy because the number of papal encyclicals against them is not legion like the masons.

 

[drew_neill]

Well, I am a Freemason and not a Catholic. There I said it. However neither the craft nor the Church need my defense. I am in RCIA and here is my 2 cents… I struggle with the Church’s stance on the issue… I don’t like it or understand it, but nonetheless it is the belief of the Church that Freemasonry is wrong. The Church speaks to my soul. Freemasonry doesn’t. I love the craft, don’t get me wrong. But my spirit doesn’t long to go to lodge… I know I’ll have to make a decision as to what to believe but that decision becomes a little more clear every day.

 

[JamezVA]

Well, I am a Freemason and not a Catholic. There I said it. However neither the craft nor the Church need my defense. I am in RCIA and here is my 2 cents… I struggle with the Church’s stance on the issue… I don’t like it or understand it, but nonetheless it is the belief of the Church that Freemasonry is wrong. The Church speaks to my soul. Freemasonry doesn’t. I love the craft, don’t get me wrong. But my spirit doesn’t long to go to lodge… I know I’ll have to make a decision as to what to believe but that decision becomes a little more clear every day.

Very well said and I share your views on the issue. Best wishes in RCIA and your Travels.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Exactly where does the Church say masonry is satanic?
By the way, European and UK masonry is quite different than in the U.S.

Pope Pius IX 1848-1878

Let us proceed further. The chief work of Judeo-Masonry planned by Cavour, Mazzini and Garibaldi was reaching its goal under the Pontificate of Pope Pius IX, with the downfall of Papal temporal power. According to the theories of those sectarians of Masonry, such a loss was sure to entail also that of spiritual power; accordingly the new Pope fixed the responsibility for the conspiracy upon the Secret Societies when, in the Encyclical following his advent, he wrote on November 9, 1846:

“Venerable Brethren, you also are fully aware of the monstrous errors and devices employed by the children of this century to pursue a merciless war against the Catholic Religion, the Divine Authority of the Church and its laws in order to trample upon the rights of both the Ecclesiastical and Civil power: such is the aim of the guilty machinations against Saint Peter’s Roman See, upon which Christ established the inexpugnable foundation of His Church. Such is the aim of those Secret Societies issuing from darkness for the eventual ruin of Religion and States, and which, on several occasions, have already been anathemized by preceding Roman Pontiffs in their Apostolical Letters. We confirm the importance of such Letters and wish them to be followed with great care.”

Moreover, from Gaete, the place of his exile, in his allocution: “Quibus Quantisque” addressed to the Consistory of April, 1849, Pope Pius IX renewed the identical condemnation in the following terms:

“Those abominable sects of perdition which are as fatally destructive of the salvation of souls as of the welfare and peace of secular society have been condemned by Roman Pontiffs, Our predecessors; We have also personally condemned them Ourselves in Our Encyclical Letter of November 9, 1846, addressed to all the Bishops of the Catholic Church, yet today in virtue of Our Supreme Catholic Authority - We, once again, condemn, forbid and anathematize them.”

The Constitution against Freemasonry and the Secret Societies of which Pope Pius IX speaks are those of Popes Clement XII, Benedict XIV, Leo XII and Pius VIII; he adds his own of November 9, 1846 (Qui Pluribus) in his letter to Monseigneur Darboy, October 26, 1865, concerning the funeral service of Marshall Magnan, Supreme Master of the Order of Freemasons; he adds also, his communication to the Bishop of Olinda (Brazil) of May 29, 1873.
The** renewed sentences of anathema by Pope Pius IX strike most particularly the satanism of secret societies. In his Encyclical of November 21, 1873, the Pope writes of them as the synagogue of satan, and addressing its members he had already castigated them (Consistory of December 9, 1854**) using to this effect, the words of Christ:

 

[Honorius]

Pope Pius IX 1848-1878

Let us proceed further. The chief work of Judeo-Masonry planned by Cavour, Mazzini and Garibaldi was reaching its goal under the Pontificate of Pope Pius IX, with the downfall of Papal temporal power. According to the theories of those sectarians of Masonry, such a loss was sure to entail also that of spiritual power; accordingly the new Pope fixed the responsibility for the conspiracy upon the Secret Societies when, in the Encyclical following his advent, he wrote on November 9, 1846:

“Venerable Brethren, you also are fully aware of the monstrous errors and devices employed by the children of this century to pursue a merciless war against the Catholic Religion, the Divine Authority of the Church and its laws in order to trample upon the rights of both the Ecclesiastical and Civil power: such is the aim of the guilty machinations against Saint Peter’s Roman See, upon which Christ established the inexpugnable foundation of His Church. Such is the aim of those Secret Societies issuing from darkness for the eventual ruin of Religion and States, and which, on several occasions, have already been anathemized by preceding Roman Pontiffs in their Apostolical Letters. We confirm the importance of such Letters and wish them to be followed with great care.”

Moreover, from Gaete, the place of his exile, in his allocution: “Quibus Quantisque” addressed to the Consistory of April, 1849, Pope Pius IX renewed the identical condemnation in the following terms:

“Those abominable sects of perdition which are as fatally destructive of the salvation of souls as of the welfare and peace of secular society have been condemned by Roman Pontiffs, Our predecessors; We have also personally condemned them Ourselves in Our Encyclical Letter of November 9, 1846, addressed to all the Bishops of the Catholic Church, yet today in virtue of Our Supreme Catholic Authority - We, once again, condemn, forbid and anathematize them.”

The Constitution against Freemasonry and the Secret Societies of which Pope Pius IX speaks are those of Popes Clement XII, Benedict XIV, Leo XII and Pius VIII; he adds his own of November 9, 1846 (Qui Pluribus) in his letter to Monseigneur Darboy, October 26, 1865, concerning the funeral service of Marshall Magnan, Supreme Master of the Order of Freemasons; he adds also, his communication to the Bishop of Olinda (Brazil) of May 29, 1873.
The** renewed sentences of anathema by Pope Pius IX strike most particularly the satanism of secret societies. In his Encyclical of November 21, 1873, the Pope writes of them as the synagogue of satan, and addressing its members he had already castigated them (Consistory of December 9, 1854**) using to this effect, the words of Christ:

Wouldn’t you say that the reason these groups are being called satanic is because the pope thinks they are in league with the people that took away the Papal States? (What, but how can it be a conspiracy without the Catholic Church? Isn’t that how all conspiracy theories are supposed to happen?)

 

[saveusfromhell]

Wouldn’t you say that the reason these groups are being called satanic is because the pope thinks they are in league with the people that took away the Papal States? (What, but how can it be a conspiracy without the Catholic Church? Isn’t that how all conspiracy theories are supposed to happen?)

the question put to me was

Exactly where does the Church say masonry is satanic?

your point is off topic and probably warrants a thread on its own, personally I have no interest in getting into that.
my prayers go with those that are in RICA on this thread welcome aboard:thumbsup:

 

[ggarcia19]

I was a soldier in the armed forces for ten years in the USA, I used to talk to masons all the time but never joined. Many church members from all religions and faiths don’t even know what a mason is but the ones that do will call it a government fraternity or cult…

 

[saveusfromhell]

some posters seem to be under the impression because the freemasons do a lot of charity work and worship a “higher power” that the church is wrong about them.
if this was the case then seers like those in bayside where a seer claimed to have apparitions of the BVM and Jesus, encouraged people to pray the rosary performed, “miracles” was a strong advocate of 85 per cent of church teaching then the catholic church would endorse it.
instead it basically labelled it satanic.
moderator i’m not promoting this bayside or its ilk just making a point

 

[captainrick]

Think of the Scripture I just quoted, and ask yourself if you are to be the judge of what is good, or is the Church?

Every good and perfect gift comes from God. And His Bride the Church not only considers the organization as evil (sin to belong to), but all of its activities.

Examination of conscience: “Did I take part in one of its [Freemasonry’s] activities?”

In the Church’s eyes it doesn’t matter what activities the Freemasons do, or the Communist Party does… all of those activities are sinful. No matter what they are.

That is Church teaching my friend. Oppose it at your own peril.

You make some good points… But note that I started off by saying that I am NO longer a mason, because I became Catholic. Pay attention before you judge me. Thank you.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

You make some good points… But note that I started off by saying that I am NO longer a mason, because I became Catholic. Pay attention before you judge me. Thank you.

I’m not judging you, I’m judging the words you’re speaking.

You said this:

captainrick:

Masonry is a charitable organization, using it’s time and funds for various worthy charities.

That statement is what I addressed with my post, along with your general feeling that “good people” were in the Masons. Not so. Every activity they do is considered gravely evil for a Catholic to take part in. Every activity.

If a Catholic is in the Masons, and he goes to a homeless shelter= gravely evil in the eyes of the Church and a violation of the First Commandment. Kapiche?

If you want your words to be in conformity with Catholic teaching (which is the above), then I suggest you stop saying that the Masons do good things. They don’t, not in the eyes of the Church.

 

[saveusfromhell]

You make some good points… But note that I started off by saying that I am NO longer a mason, because I became Catholic. Pay attention before you judge me. Thank you.

I admire your ability to give up your membership even though you have reservations about why it is wrong in obedience to church teachings:thumbsup:

 

[RC_Sojourner]

Shouldn’t we let the Masons say what God they believe in?

ROME SPEAKS!!!

You wish they hadn’t? Is that your question? Well guess what, Rome said that! Rome did pronounce what God they worship. So, clearly the Church’s answer to your question is: no, we’ll decide what kind of God they worship, and it is a false god, an idol. They worship man, or perhaps even the devil. That is what that passage said.

The Church has made a pronouncement. The Church is clearly not interested in hearing the Masons’ side of the story.

Honorius:

I agree, but do we have the actual testimony of someone that has been through these oaths? Anyone can say that about the Masons, but is it really true?

The Church says its true. The oaths that Masons take are gravely evil and an insult to God. They violate the Second Commandment. That is the Church’s pronouncement.

Honorius:

What religion are they heirs of exactly? I don’t believe it was mentioned.

I would also like to add that there have not been many mentions of why Catholics cannot be Rosicrucians. I myself would like to know, because it is not as easy because the number of papal encyclicals against them is not legion like the masons.

"of a religion which purports to be the one religion of the one “God”. So, their religion is a false one. That’s the only way the Church characterizes it.

Rosicrucians are a masonic association. All of the reasons I’ve been mentioning are made in a blanket ban on all masonic associations. The Church decided recently to stop focusing all of these attacks on the freemasons specifically, and instead said that this was the Church’s position on all masonic associations.

And by recently, we’re talking 1980’s. Very recent.