Men and headcoverings?

[Americaoca]

My first post…,

Cradle Catholic here… I know a little about the traditional Latin Mass and that I’ve pretty much spent my whole life going to Novus Ordo (sp?)

I hear lots of talk (debate? Argument?) on women covering their head… I’m wondering about men. Traditionally Jewish men covered their heads when they went to the temple and when they prayed. How did we move away from that? Why is there discussion of woman covering their heads and not men if it used to be something that was done? (I have no opinion on what is right or wrong on this matter, I am just curious and have wondered for years as woman could wear a hat as a head covering in mass, but men had to remove and I found it a curious matter)

Anyways that’s my question.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

In Western culture, for centuries it has been considered a sign of respect for a man to remove his hat, for example in church, when greeting a woman or a superior etc.

It’s my understanding this came from the old custom of a warrior removing his helmet in the presence of the leader or king, and carried over to hats.

During roughly the same amount of time, it has also been considered polite and respectful for a woman to wear a head covering of some sort when going out in public. She could remove it in her home, or when visiting someone else in their home. A woman appearing in public with uncovered head was thought to be either immodest or maybe too poor or ill-bred to observe social rules. A woman appearing before a leader or king would have been expected to cover her head. This only started disappearing in the last 50 or 60 years.

In church therefore each gender followed the rules set for them to show respect for the leader or king.

 

[TK421]

It goes back to the discipline during St Peter’s pontifcate of men being uncovered and women being covered on their heads. There is no longer a canonical obligation related to headgear (including men being required to remove hats). So you could theoretically do a St Ephrem look but it would probably confuse/offend the parishioners.

Should Catholics wear hats in church? - U.S. Catholic

Peace.

 

[Bithynian]

Traditionally Jewish men covered their heads when they went to the temple and when they prayed.

Note that it was not a universal custom amongst Jewish communities in antiquity. Many left it to the discretion of individuals. Sometimes male headcoverings on certain individuals could be seen negatively due to their association with the priestly and rabbinic office: a lay Jew wearing a headcovering (in some specific situations) would be perceived a bit like a lay Catholic wearing a bishop’s mitre.

 

[Maximian]

A man’s headgear is considered to be symbolic of his military role, which he lays aside in Church

 

[27lw]

Also, a general rule for society in the past 100 years or so is that men take their hats off indoors. I remember being taught that in kindergarten.
So when I see grown men wearing their ball caps at Mass I cringe and don’t understand why they didn’t also learn that in kindergarten, or anywhere else (like, from their parents).

 

[TK421]

Also, a general rule for society in the past 100 years or so is that men take their hats off indoors. I remember being taught that in kindergarten.
So when I see grown men wearing their ball caps at Mass I cringe and don’t understand why they didn’t also learn that in kindergarten, or anywhere else (like, from their parents).

I’d probably instinctively do it in a really nice restaurant or a concert (or church ofc) but it’s never something I do going into a store, mall, etc. I was never raised with such a rule and it seems impractical because then you’re carrying it around.

Schools usually prohibit hats because students tend to play with them, hide earphones, etc. Also, back in the day, men frequently wore hats doing outdoor work and in drier areas that means they can collect a lot dust.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

So when I see grown men wearing their ball caps at Mass I cringe and don’t understand why they didn’t also learn that in kindergarten, or anywhere else (like, from their parents).

I actually wore a pink cap into church myself on one occasion. It was patterned with a flower design and I turned it around so the bill wasn’t in front and it just looked like a little hat.

A man lectured me for not removing my cap in church.

I tried to explain to him I am a woman and the tradition is that women wear head covering in church.

He looked at me like I just landed from Neptune.

 

[OraLabora]

So when I see grown men wearing their ball caps at Mass I cringe and don’t understand why they didn’t also learn that in kindergarten, or anywhere else (like, from their parents).

It baffles me too. I wonder where the manners went… I am male and have always been taught to remove my hat in church or indoors. I’m 62. I wonder where in those 62 years manners went off the rails?

 

[TK421]

It baffles me too.

There’s nothing to be baffled by. Most people don’t grow up with this rule and it’s not based on natural law so there’s no way that it could ever be felt through intuition. If you’re taught it you know it. If you’re not taught it you don’t know it. My home area was rural and protestant, but men and boys wore caps and hats indoors all the time with the exception of church.

 

[whatistrue]

Most people don’t grow up with this rule

I guess that’s true these days, but it surely was the norm when I grew up and when I was in the Navy and when I was in the National Guard, before the more recent uniform changes.

 

[Americaoca]

Ahh thank you! I am still confused by all the names and acronyms.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Back when we had a draft, men would have been more aware of this rule. I am sure that men who served in the military or police force all remove their hats almost automatically.

 

[Lea101]

I am male and have always been taught to remove my hat in church or indoors. I’m 62. I wonder where in those 62 years manners went off the rails?

I get why you think that, but to be fair manners are pretty subjective and fluid over time. Especially with regards to fashion. I am in my 20s and wearing hats indoors is more casual wear than rude. If anything I notice guys are more likely to have caps (usually because they can’t be bothered to style their hair, or usually because they’re bald from their compulsory service in the army).

 

[whatistrue]

or usually because they’re bald from their compulsory service in the army).

How does that follow? Above age 50 the percentage of men exhibiting male pattern baldness is over 50%, and it has nothing to do with military service.

 

[DaveBj]

The only “rule” that really matters is the one where St. Paul states that a man dishonors his head if he prays or prophesies with his head covered.

D

 

[Irishmom2]

I have to remind my husband to take his cap off all the time. He did not learn the hats off thing growing up (no one wore them in his family) and his response to me In a restaurant like Cracker Barrel etc. is that “no one else is taking theirs off.” To which I say I don’t care what they do, take it off.

Husband is totally aware of correct etiquette for servicemen as he was in, he just doesn’t do it for himself.

 

[Genesis315]

It baffles me too. I wonder where the manners went… I am male and have always been taught to remove my hat in church or indoors. I’m 62. I wonder where in those 62 years manners went off the rails?

Since St. Paul and prior canon law treated men having heads uncovered in church equivalently to women needing covered heads (it was treated in the very same canon in the 1917 code), and since women no longer have to cover their heads in church, logically men can now wear hats.

Not saying it’s a good thing, but one can’t really complain about one, while being cool with the other. Personally I think getting rid of each custom, along with other customs, has led to a more casual approach to Mass in the West than when these customs were in place (interior reverence of a person is of course not strictly determined by the outward expression, but it helps many of us!).

 

[Genesis315]

The only “rule” that really matters is the one where St. Paul states that a man dishonors his head if he prays or prophesies with his head covered.

Like women’s headcoverings, the Church always treated this as a cultural thing. As the 1917 Code noted about each, men had to have uncovered heads “unless the approved mores of the people or peculiar circumstances of things determine otherwise.” A great example of this is the jijin being used in China:
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[Tis_Bearself]

How does that follow? Above age 50 the percentage of men exhibiting male pattern baldness is over 50%, and it has nothing to do with military service.

She means young guys who buzz or shave their hair in order to serve in the military. Some of them prefer it that way and continue the same style after their discharge.