Men and women standing in different places in the Church--why do we not do this in the Greek Catholic Churches?

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Tradycja

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In the Russian Orthodox Church (at least it was that way when I attended some Liturgies in Moscow and St. Petersburg) the men stand on one side of the Church and the women on the other side of the church. The women also cover their heads and men are expected to wear long sleeve shirts.

Why do the Greek Catholic Churches not do this? Influence from the Novus Ordo rite?
 
I have heard that even in Russia the segregation of the sexes isn’t so common anymore, but if you’ve actually been there then I’ll trust your word.

I think that head-coverings have more theological significance than the segregation, personally.
 
It has absolutely nothing to do with Novus Ordo influence. In fact, I know many EF parishes where the men and women sit together. Why divide families?

It is also not just a Greek Catholic phenomenon. Most Orthodox parishes, that I am aware of, do not segregate the sexes during any of the liturgical services. Again, why divide families?

I would say it has to do with our culture. We live in a culture where the sexes are seen to be equal; women are not inferior or subordinate to men (mind you, however, that I don’t believe equality means similarity. The sexes have different roles to play in society), also as Catholics we believe that the sexes can interact without lusting after one another. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Can we not interact like brothers and sisters, especially during the event that brings us into closer communion with one another by bringing us into communion with God through the Eucharist?
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
It has absolutely nothing to do with Novus Ordo influence. In fact, I know many EF parishes where the men and women sit together. Why divide families?

It is also not just a Greek Catholic phenomenon. Most Orthodox parishes, that I am aware of, do not segregate the sexes during any of the liturgical services. Again, why divide families?

I would say it has to do with our culture. We live in a culture where the sexes are seen to be equal; women are not inferior or subordinate to men (mind you, however, that I don’t believe equality means similarity. The sexes have different roles to play in society), also as Catholics we believe that the sexes can interact without lusting after one another. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Can we not interact like brothers and sisters, especially during the event that brings us into closer communion with one another by bringing us into communion with God through the Eucharist?
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Agreed with your opinion, I also agree that Mantila’s are a sign of humility and reverence to God and not “man”.
 
Mantilas are a Roman tradition. In the East, at least among the Byzantines, if anything is worn is is a scarf. 😃
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
Mantilas are a Roman tradition. In the East, at least among the Byzantines, if anything is worn is is a scarf. 😃
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Saint Paul said men have authority over women so they should throughly cover their heads, the word is κατακαλυπτω, as the head represents authority, and for the same reason, modesty, sensibility, good deeds, and submissiveness are proscribed.

1 Corinthians 11:7-10 RSV
“For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels.”

1 Timothy 2:8-15 RSV
“I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.”
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
Mantilas are a Roman tradition. In the East, at least among the Byzantines, if anything is worn is is a scarf. 😃
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Actually, in the East, it depended on where you lived and what your position was within the village community.

If you were un-married you wore a head covering that indicated you were eligible for marriage. At your wedding, your headcovering removed and you were given a wedding cap, a sign that you were now an adult member of the community. You NEVER went out in public without this headcovering.

Once you were married, you wore your marriage cap that could be accompanied with a head scarf or other type of head covering. This may or may not have changed once you had children.

As grandchildren started arriving, another type of head covering was used.

If you became a widow, you wore another type of head covering.

The popularity of the mantilla can be traced to Jackie Kennedy and her visits to the Vatican and Popes John XXIII and Paul VI.

Hope this helps…
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
Mantilas are a Roman tradition. In the East, at least among the Byzantines, if anything is worn is is a scarf. 😃
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I’ve seen quite a few mantillas in both Melkite and Chaldean/Assyrian parishes. I’ll refrain from using the “L” word. 🙂
 
crazzeto said:
Well at least we know Latins have a superior sense of style 😃

😉
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In the US I think the Greek Orthodox have the best sense of style hands down-- and I’m Italian so I was raised to believe that Italians had the best. 🙂 I’m always aware of how lousy I look when I’m at the Greek Orthodox cathedral here.
 
5Loaves said:
I’ve seen quite a few mantillas in both Melkite and Chaldean/Assyrian parishes. I’ll refrain from using the “L” word. 🙂
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I see mantillas every Sunday at my Melkite parish. Usually they are worn by (former) students of a certain local Roman Catholic college, by (former/now Melkite) Roman Catholics who happen to like our parish, or by clueless Melkites. The women who are more “traditional” tend to wear scarves. My wife likes the scarves much better than the mantillas, but doesn’t wear either. Personally I like the scarves and have never been a fan of mantillas, even in my Roman days.
 
Personally I think that the Old Calendrists should be the Liturgical model for the Eastern Catholic Churches.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
I see mantillas every Sunday at my Melkite parish. Usually they are worn by (former) students of a certain local Roman Catholic college, by (former/now Melkite) Roman Catholics who happen to like our parish, or by clueless Melkites. The women who are more “traditional” tend to wear scarves. My wife likes the scarves much better than the mantillas, but doesn’t wear either. Personally I like the scarves and have never been a fan of mantillas, even in my Roman days.
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Happily I see matinallas even in my parishes OF masses, though admittingly infrequent. Of course they are the norm at EF, only a very small percentage of women there don’t wear them.

BTW, I take it from your post you were baptised Roman Rite? Yet you are still in communion with Rome, which is good… Though the posting would seem to have a sad hint of ‘I’m no longer a part of that’… We are in fact the same church no? =)
 
5Loaves said:
I’ve seen quite a few mantillas in both Melkite and Chaldean/Assyrian parishes. I’ll refrain from using the “L” word. 🙂
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I’ve also seen them In Greek, Russian and Romanian Orthodox Churches, whats the big deal?
 
BTW, I take it from your post you were baptised Roman Rite? Yet you are still in communion with Rome, which is good… Though the posting would seem to have a sad hint of ‘I’m no longer a part of that’… We are in fact the same church no? =)

I was indeed baptized Roman (and am proud of it). If you’re curious about my journey Eastward (from Rome to Antioch), I’m happy to share, but would prefer to do so via personal messages. 🙂
 
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