Men and womens different responses to chastity

[epan]

@OP: in what context are you speaking, and who are you addressing? Teens, college, marriage prep?

@Athena: interesting points and good posts. Side point, you certainly can be used even if you as the participant want sex too - - mutual use, no? Either way it is beneath one’s dignity as a child of God to use another person or to be used, even if you consent to the use.

@julia: A little harsh on the OP? He is here looking for help. He may have a set of materials that he is given to work with.

I took a seminar on Elizabethan erotic verse. One of the surprising things that came out of my research was the very high level of misogyny of the time, and also the women were considered to be the sexual aggressors with insatiable sexual appetites. That made me wonder how much of this perception as men being the gender who is sex driven is just cultural. I was in a village which was matriarchal one time. I was sitting at a table where there was some music playing. I was 19 years old. A middle aged woman just grabbed me by the arm, and yanked me up. I was to dance with here. She definitely wanted to make a lot of body contact, too.

Anecdotal, but still… and based on my peers, I do not get the sense that females are less interested in sex than males are. Why they would be less receptive than men to a message of chastity eludes me, except to make sure that the way that it is presented is not demeaning or condescending.

 

[Julia_Mae]

@julia: A little harsh on the OP? He is here looking for help. He may have a set of materials that he is given to work with.

I wasn’t being harsh I was being straightforward and giving him help. Get a woman to work with.

 

[jennstall]

Females tend to prioritize the relationship above sex and guys tend to prioritize sex above the relationship (I’m not talking about a married couple here). I don’t know why that would be offensive to a girl it certainly is more virtuous.

I think what might be offensive to the girl is the mistaken notion that she prioritizes relationships over sex due to her gender. There are many girls and women who don’t. I spent most of years away from the Church very promiscuously and I was ruthlessly cold-blooded about it. Romantic entanglements weren’t what I was seeking. I think to presume that all women who have casual sex or are tempted to have it are really just using it as a way to seek love is getting off on the wrong foot entirely.

If you want today’s women to consider chastity, it must be acknowledged that many of them are capable of being quite predatory and aggressive in their approach to sex. Then show them why that behavior is destructive to both themselves and those people that they use. I think the minute you tell a woman she’s being used for sex, she’s just going to shut down and stop listening because it doesn’t match her experience as the one doing the “using”. You’ll gain more by not casting women in a passive role.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

If there was no such thing as birth control, I think women would be less likely to indulge in sex outside of marriage, because the consequences are very grim for a woman who gets pregnant out of wedlock.

With the advent of easy birth control is when women really became very nonchalant about having sex.

It’s a very different matter about sexual desire. Women will have sex with men in the hopes that they will get love and a relationship with the man out of it, unless they are very perverse, or drunk or on drugs. On the other hand, men will have sex with any willing woman, without actually thinking it would lead to a relationship. It’s the women who sets the rules, not the man. If women would not have sex until they were married, men would heed them.

 

[LittleFlower378]

Lucy Light has good points in post #14… In general, I think there are differences in the sexuality of a man and a woman. These things are given to us by God and are in our nature. A good book to read that talks about some of this is - ** Love and Responsibility - Bl.John Paul II - A Simplified Version by Monsignor Vincent M. Walsh, J.C.D.**

 

[jennstall]

If there was no such thing as birth control, I think women would be less likely to indulge in sex outside of marriage, because the consequences are very grim for a woman who gets pregnant out of wedlock.

With the advent of easy birth control is when women really became very nonchalant about having sex.

It’s a very different matter about sexual desire. Women will have sex with men in the hopes that they will get love and a relationship with the man out of it, unless they are very perverse, or drunk or on drugs. On the other hand, men will have sex with any willing woman, without actually thinking it would lead to a relationship. It’s the women who sets the rules, not the man. If women would not have sex until they were married, men would heed them.

I agree with you about the birth control, but I think you are quite wrong about sexual desire. You cannot make a blanket statement about what women want. We may have particular tendencies, but we are still individuals and if chastity education does not recognize that fact, then it won’t get anywhere.

*Some *women have sex in the hope that they will get love and a relationship out of it. And *some *women have sex because they want to have sex. You don’t need to be drunk, drugged or very perverse to want to have sex. You only need to be human.

 

[Cupcake143]

I think that Catholic girls who have had sex outside of marriage would have a harder time seeing the Church’s view, than girls who are virgins. I don’t even know if it’s that they have a harder time understanding it, but rather that they just don’t want to hear the truth. Because, they know it’s wrong, but they don’t want to give it up.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I agree with you about the birth control, but I think you are quite wrong about sexual desire. You cannot make a blanket statement about what women want. We may have particular tendencies, but we are still individuals and if chastity education does not recognize that fact, then it won’t get anywhere.

*Some *women have sex in the hope that they will get love and a relationship out of it. And *some *women have sex because they want to have sex. You don’t need to be drunk, drugged or very perverse to want to have sex. You only need to be human.

You may want to have sex. But do you just want to have sex one night with someone you will never see again, or do you want to have sex and hope that it leads to love?

 

[JimG]

I think that Catholic girls who have had sex outside of marriage would have a harder time seeing the Church’s view, than girls who are virgins. I don’t even know if it’s that they have a harder time understanding it, but rather that they just don’t want to hear the truth. Because, they know it’s wrong, but they don’t want to give it up.

That makes sense to me. Maybe it’s not all that complicated. They don’t want to hear the chastity talk because they don’t want to give up the sex.

 

[jennstall]

You may want to have sex. But do you just want to have sex one night with someone you will never see again, or do you want to have sex and hope that it leads to love?

For many years I was quite happy having sex with men I’d never see again. In fact, I preferred it and found it simultaneously exciting and dangerous. If someone at a chastity class told me I was just looking for love, I would have laughed in their face.

I believe that the best way to get someone to consider chastity is to understand what it is they are currently getting out of casual sex. What void are they using it to fill? There isn’t a single blanket answer so the assumption that all women are having sex hoping that it leads to love will simply hit a brick wall with those women who are seeking something else.

I’m not trying to share my personal circumstances here so much because clearly my experience isn’t the same as someone else’s. What I am trying to do is to get others (particularly anyone who is actually teaching a chastity class) to consider that not all women have the same motivations for their behavior, whether we are talking about sex or other things, so a one size fits all approach will not suit.

 

[SusanneT]

If there was no such thing as birth control, I think women would be less likely to indulge in sex outside of marriage, because the consequences are very grim for a woman who gets pregnant out of wedlock.

With the advent of easy birth control is when women really became very nonchalant about having sex.

It’s a very different matter about sexual desire. Women will have sex with men in the hopes that they will get love and a relationship with the man out of it, unless they are very perverse, or drunk or on drugs. On the other hand, men will have sex with any willing woman, without actually thinking it would lead to a relationship. It’s the women who sets the rules, not the man. If women would not have sex until they were married, men would heed them.

I completely agree I think a awful lot of what we regard as femine virtues stem from the simple biological facts women do not want to fall pregnant without a comitted father ( outside wedlock) and of course men do not want to care for others children. But isn’t that how God designed it ? And then made beautiful ! And isn’t that another reason why birth control is wrong ?

 

[SusanneT]

I think that Catholic girls who have had sex outside of marriage would have a harder time seeing the Church’s view, than girls who are virgins. I don’t even know if it’s that they have a harder time understanding it, but rather that they just don’t want to hear the truth. Because, they know it’s wrong, but they don’t want to give it up.

Maybe you are right. As someone who was introduced to the Church’s teaching as a virgin I saw no conflict between it and the life I wanted. . Which may not be the case for women who are already sexually active. Equally I didn’t truely value it until I was introduced to Church teaching which really affirmed my wish to wait.

Isn’t it also true that there has always been a double standard. Female chastity and virginity has always been more valued than male - for many reasons and equality & feminism makes that harder for many women to accept. So they react against it.

 

[severus68]

If there was no such thing as birth control, I think women would be less likely to indulge in sex outside of marriage, because the consequences are very grim for a woman who gets pregnant out of wedlock.

With the advent of easy birth control is when women really became very nonchalant about having sex.

It’s a very different matter about sexual desire. Women will have sex with men in the hopes that they will get love and a relationship with the man out of it, unless they are very perverse, or drunk or on drugs. On the other hand, men will have sex with any willing woman, without actually thinking it would lead to a relationship. It’s the women who sets the rules, not the man. If women would not have sex until they were married, men would heed them.

Women have practised all sorts of birth control and men have been pushing them to do so from time immemorial. Of course reliable ABC has been available relatively recently.

An argument made to women that they should not have pre-marital sex because of possible pregnancy would be wrong. It emphasises double standards and that the wrong/sin is in being caught.

On your comments regarding the sexuality of women, in my opinion, they reflect commonly held/stereotypical , not necessarily accurate, views. ‘Perverse’, ‘on drugs’? Men do not have any control? - rather insulting. You also appear to blame women for the sins of men.

 

[Debora123]

If there was no such thing as birth control, I think women would be less likely to indulge in sex outside of marriage, because the consequences are very grim for a woman who gets pregnant out of wedlock.

With the advent of easy birth control is when women really became very nonchalant about having sex.

It’s a very different matter about sexual desire. Women will have sex with men in the hopes that they will get love and a relationship with the man out of it, unless they are very perverse, or drunk or on drugs. On the other hand, men will have sex with any willing woman, without actually thinking it would lead to a relationship. It’s the women who sets the rules, not the man. If women would not have sex until they were married, men would heed them.

This sounds like you’re putting the responsibility only on the women. :nope:

God calls men to chastity too, and chastity involves MUCH more then not having premarital sex simply because no one will have premarital sex with you. (Such is actually not chastity at all, but simply lack of opportunity.)

 

[severus68]

This sounds like you’re putting the responsibility only on the women. :nope:

God calls men to chastity too, and chastity involves MUCH more then not having premarital sex simply because no one will have premarital sex with you. (Such is actually not chastity at all, but simply lack of opportunity.)

Quite right.

 

[JimG]

I think that Catholic girls who have had sex outside of marriage would have a harder time seeing the Church’s view, than girls who are virgins. I don’t even know if it’s that they have a harder time understanding it, but rather that they just don’t want to hear the truth. Because, they know it’s wrong, but they don’t want to give it up.

Thinking about this a little further, it seems that this would apply to both women and men: Once a person begins to engage in extra-marital sex, it is likely that they will want to continue having sex just because they like it. (It’s another reason why sex should be reserved for marriage.)

So they are resistant to the chastity talk because they don’t want to give up the sex. That would apply to both men and women.

But it still doesn’t answer the question as to why women would be more resistant to the chastity message than men, which was the OP’s experience. Are they more invested in the continuance of sexual activity in some way than men?

 

[fastenatingguy]

For a number of years I have been involved with teaching young people about chastity. I’ve found I can get men to have a serious rethink about their attitudes to sex outside of marriage and pornography. They can accept that these things are destructive, in fact some groups have been really easy to get them to question the norm. I suspect deep down they knew these things were hurting them they just needed someone to speak up.

I have not had the same success with female groups, they often struggle to see that sex outside of marriage is wrong.

I usually talk about, fulfilment, emptiness, being used and sex is for a lifelong commitment and children, I can get men to see the Churches view but not many women.

I’m a male, have other people had the same experience?

I have read each post on this thread. There are a variety of answers, all of them “correct”-- individually. Some of them can be grouped together, etc which is what analysts would like to do to make the task simpler. But I am sure that nobody would want to be “treated” in a way different from their viewpoint, as that wouldn’t be fair.

I agree with the consensus advice: a woman should conduct the discussion (I guess only real Italians can really enjoy pasta!). However, even she MUST be open to the realization that EACH woman in the group wants HER view to be heard, wants her needs to be acknowledged, and so on. So make sure that the speaker is open to all viewpoints, not too left or too right, or you may as well have an old priest perform this unenviable task.

My father gave me some good advice before I got married. He said, “if your wife ever asks whether a particular outfit makes her tush look big, respond from the heart–she looks beautiful–which is the truth. But NEVER answer the question directly!”

 

[jilly4ski]

Thinking about this a little further, it seems that this would apply to both women and men: Once a person begins to engage in extra-marital sex, it is likely that they will want to continue having sex just because they like it. (It’s another reason why sex should be reserved for marriage.)

So they are resistant to the chastity talk because they don’t want to give up the sex. That would apply to both men and women.

But it still doesn’t answer the question as to why women would be more resistant to the chastity message than men, which was the OP’s experience. Are they more invested in the continuance of sexual activity in some way than men?

hmm, that is the question isn’t it. Why would women/girls be more resistant to the chastity message? Is it because culture has been teaching them it is a mans fault and sin etc.

In my experience, I think I was receptive the the chastity message generally. But I was also not sexually active and not really interested in sex with any particular person or even sex in general (I was just too busy until I started dating at 17/18). So really my sexual desire came from the intimacy (getting close to and getting to know) with my boyfriend (who later became my husband). Not as some external force which drove my behaviors. I wonder if hearing about how men approached sex maybe helped with this attitude I had, but it also could have been just my general personality and disdain for people at the time . So maybe this is part of it, as my experience is radically different that some of the other women on this thread. Is that there are many different ways that women/girls approach their sexuality, so one way might not click with some will with others. So it is more difficult to reach them as a whole.

 

[Julia_Mae]

My father gave me some good advice before I got married. He said, “if your wife ever asks whether a particular outfit makes her tush look big, respond from the heart–she looks beautiful–which is the truth. But NEVER answer the question directly!”

wat?

 

[exoflare]

Sorry if this has already been addressed and I didn’t see it, but what specific objections to the subject matter are you getting from these women? What is it that they’re telling you?