Men who practice NFP with their wives

[Gwendolen]

that is heartbreaking. I would hardly call that abc experience effective. sounds like you think the death of our children was somehow related to abc – which it was not, and 2 of our earliest supports were practicing catholics who lost twin children to the same disease that threatened ours (ttts). That’s the only reason i can think of that you would say this, because abc right now is allowing me to continue an intimate relationship with my spouse, without threatening my life, and i have not gotten pregnant in the several years we have used it, so i consider it very effective in that regard, as we are measuring the effectiveness by whether or not conception is prevented, and i do not believe there is any implantation issue with vasectomy. You seem to have changed the criteria of effectiveness from pregnancy prevention when we were avoiding pregnancy to infant mortality, (of a planned pregnancy, that one) and that is unkind, given our situation. You don’t have to agree with having surgical birth control to nod to “yes it worked for what was trying to be accomplished”

sounds like you failed nfp not the other way around. Kind of like other methods when not applied correctly. – true, but i was diligent in my effort, so it did not work for us, regardless of who failed what. Other methods are not this complicated to understand, especially our current one.

Sorry to hear about all of that pain. Thank you. Sorry also for dragging it out of you when you probably didnt want to talk about it. Don’t mind talking about it – don’t like arguing that my experiences weren’t valid or real. Abc “worked” for us, and “works” currently in preventing pregnancy. I had no idea someone just wouldn’t take my word on this. I was only trying to speak for myself, and not trying to change anyone’s belief as to its sinfulness. But, such is an nfp thread. And our nfp “failure” resulted in a beloved son. We are not “disappointed”, just pointing out that i personally was not able to use it to effectively prevent pregnancy as i got towards mid thirty. We are all willing participants with keyboards.

Anyway. Aside from that. Welcome to the church! I am a convert as well as my wife!

thank you!!

 

[Moore11]

thank you!!

I know you know this but ABC cannot be practiced by a Catholic. We should not give the impression on these forums that that is ever acceptable.

 

[JDeL]

Dear All,

My wife and I do not really practice NFP, but I wanted to make a couple of comments regarding the OP’s question of how to abstain when the urge is present.

There is a simple method: prayer. When I have the urge, I have noticed that prayer significantly reduces the sexual flow of energy within the body at least for me, the guy. Please suggest this to your husband. Do one of the following when the desire is present: 1) Pray the rosary 2) pray spontaneously from the heart 3) read scripture together with your spouse 4) Do other spiritual reading. 5) Chant night prayers from the Divine Office etc…

If the desire is not thwarted by prayer, I would think that God is telling you something, possibly that he desires to make another soul through you and your spouse right now.

Whenever we elevate our minds hearts and souls to God, he will never let us down and never give us more than we can handle.

May God bless and keep your marriage strong and fruitful!

 

[Gwendolen]

I know you know this but ABC cannot be practiced by a Catholic. We should not give the impression on these forums that that is ever acceptable.

– yes, well aware, that is why it took a lot of courage to answer the question asked “is ABC ever effective long term”. Just answering the question (while making sure you knew I wasn’t Catholic or considering Catholicism when I made the decisions) wasn’t enough, need more details! OK, Even explaining the dire circumstances in which a reasonably devout Christian non-Catholic (who did not have the belief that is was sinful) might use it, and telling you what kind we’d used the longest, so you didn’t think we’d used an abortifact, I still faced painful judgement from you, and had to defend my credibility when I stated it was an effective long term means of preventing conception in my personal experience.

Poor OP – sorry, sorry, I have discussed with with clergy IRL< and while I don’t feel guilt for using ABC before becoming Catholic, when there was never a question from my church that it was ever an issue, but I do feel guilty getting sucked into this, against my better judgement, and taking away from your thread! I will unsubscribe now, I promise, you can have it back!!!

 

[misspriss]

Well, my DH isn’t Catholic, but he practiced NFP with me after I became Catholic before we started “not trying not preventing”. I will tell you that I had more problems abstaining than he did, I guess I have a higher sex drive. I can’t really give you any tips except to keep busy doing other things. I sometimes snacked, which probably explains those extra few pounds I have picked up.

 

[Moore11]

– yes, well aware, that is why it took a lot of courage to answer the question asked “is ABC ever effective long term”. Just answering the question (while making sure you knew I wasn’t Catholic or considering Catholicism when I made the decisions) wasn’t enough, need more details! OK, Even explaining the dire circumstances in which a reasonably devout Christian non-Catholic (who did not have the belief that is was sinful) might use it, and telling you what kind we’d used the longest, so you didn’t think we’d used an abortifact, I still faced painful judgement from you, and had to defend my credibility when I stated it was an effective long term means of preventing conception in my personal experience.

Poor OP – sorry, sorry, I have discussed with with clergy IRL< and while I don’t feel guilt for using ABC before becoming Catholic, when there was never a question from my church that it was ever an issue, but I do feel guilty getting sucked into this, against my better judgement, and taking away from your thread! I will unsubscribe now, I promise, you can have it back!!!

There was no judgement. You are reading into things.
It is odd that you are reacting this way. Nobody forced you to post. In fact this thread is specifically asking men. Anyone should feel guilt about a sin in the past. It is probably best if you stop advising others on this matter. For your peace and theirs.

 

[twoangels]

Hi all,

My husband and I are 25-year-old newlyweds practicing natural family planning (NFP). We attended classes conducted by Couple to Couple League and wholeheartedly believe in NFP as a way to put off pregnancy, as well as to use to ultimately conceive.

As a woman, it seems to be much easier for me to abstain during my fertile period than it is for my husband (for obvious reasons, it would seem, since he is a guy). In his sex-driven moments (which are very frequent!), it is hard to keep him off me.

**Are there any men out there who practice NFP with their wives and can help with practices during the period of fertility? I am eager for my husband to connect with other men who abstain with their wives during fertility and to learn what you do when sexual intercourse is not an option.

Any help/advice/outreach would be VERY appreciated by the both of us! Thank you!

I would encourage you and your husband to pray together regularly and to allow God to work on your hearts. NFP cannot be approached as contraceptives. Too often, people struggle with continuing to see their fertility as something negative. This negative view of fertility tends to make people see NFP as a sign that there is also something negative about sexual pleasure. This attitude can be entirely unconscious, but I believe it leads to over scrupulosity about sexual sins.

Sex is about a total gift of self. NFP can become a total withholding of self while contraceptives is a partial withholding of self. Its very important for the couple to strive to unite in their intentions to abstain and for the sacrifice to be a mutual loving sacrifice. The abstinence can become an expression of love rather than a holding back of yourself. At the same time, its important to understand that sex is important to a marriage. Its not something to just toss aside.

While I’ve only been married a little over two years, I do think for the first year or so of marriage, uniting your approach to NFP can be a challenge. You have to build that trust and that mutual care for one another. You have to care that he wants to have sex with you and needs to feel loved by you that way and you have to trust him to be willing to lay down his desires for love of you and family.

 

[spencer2]

Not to change the subject but is it or is it not sinful for Protestants to use ABC?

 

[superamazingman]

Not to change the subject but is it or is it not sinful for Protestants to use ABC?

Many protestants say that there’s nothing wrong with it, but it is universal. ABC is always wrong to use, whether the protestants know it or not.

 

[waywardson]

Using NFP can be a challenge, but it should not be burdensome. If NFP is a burden and not a blessing in your marriage, might I suggest the following:

Technical help with the method.

If you believe that the amount of abstinence is excessive, this may be the cause of most of your problems. Don’t assume that because NFP is easy for you that it is easy for others. Different methods work for different women. For us, one method (Creighton) was impossible, with long periods of abstinence (as few as 6 of 26 days available), lots of insecurity, and an incorrect diagnosis of a cycle disorder caused by our non-understanding of the method (and according to the Drs. Billings, Dr. Hilgers’ non-understanding as well). However, when we found what worked (Symptothermal + Billings), it wasn’t bad at all (16 of 26 days available). Other couples have had the opposite experience.

If ANYONE is struggling with the method, I recommend the following resources:

•   [Taking Charge of Your Fertility (book)](http://www.tcoyf.com)

•     [The Billings Ovulation Method website. ](http://www.thebillingsovulationmethod.com)

•     More than you EVER wanted to know about the science of CM and the menstrual cycle from  [WOOMB.](http://www.woomb.org)

• If all else fails, get a fertility monitor and try Marquette.

** Medical help for cycle issues.**

•     Better nutrition may solve the problem. [Fertility Cycles and Nutrition](http://www.ccli.org/products/fcn.php)

•     [Creighton Model](http://creightonmodel.com) FertilityCare - Despite our own issues with Creighton, it is great for treating cycle issues (when properly diagnosed).

•     [Justisse Healthworks for Women](http://www.justisse.ca) in Canada seems to be a similar program done from a secular, feminist perspective, but I don't know much about it.

• If you see something unusual, go seek help. It may be the sign of a serious problem.

** Marital counseling, psychological counseling, or psychiatric help.**

• This is money well spent. It is even money well borrowed. Your self-destructive behaviors will cost far more than getting help.

Proper education in the Catholic faith, so that you know what is really required of them and what is not and what are the actual consequences if you fail to meet these requirements.

For example: You probably know that sterilizing a procreative act is always evil. You probably also know that inherently non-procreative acts are always sinful, but you might not know that determining the degree of sin in a non-procreative act is a bit more complicated as there may be mitigating factors. (The Catechism explicitly lists them) Conversely, even an objectively proper procreative act must be done with proper intent and circumstance to be proper.

Also, did you know that couples are called to be both “generous and open to life” and “responsible parenthood”? Responsible parenthood may require the couple to plan their family using NFP, but they should do so for good (“just”) reasons and not out of selfishness.

A good lesson on sin and grace is pretty helpful. What is a true mortal sin and what is not?

Here are some sources that might help.

•      Start with the [Catechism of the Catholic Church](http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc/index.htm). The online version at the Vatican website links to other Church documents.

•      [YouCat](http://www.youcat.org/) - The new Youth Catechism recommended by Pope Benedict XVI.

•      [The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

](http://www.usccb.org)

** Good spiritual counseling so that you can grow in faith and in your marriage.**

•     Get spiritual counseling from your priest or spiritual advisor, not strangers on the internet. We have clergy for a reason.

• A good priest is especially helpful in dealing with questions of sin, such as how serious your sin really is, what the real cause of your sin is, and how to avoid it.

•     Know your faith because priests make mistakes, too. There can be no conflict between the true faith and sound reasoning. If something sounds strange, it's probably wrong. Check the catechism or get a second opinion.

 

[waywardson]

We have only ever used NFP. No “accidents.” Really don’t like that word. Lots of physically exhausting exercise on abstinence days.

We get a lot done around the house. Go for a lot of long walks around the neighborhood. It forces you do get creative outside the bedroom. All this “creativity” brings us closer in our marriage.

Make a good effort to avoid sin. If you fail, don’t beat yourself up over it, it’s not the worst sin in the world. Just try to to better next time. I suggest confession. (If struggles with abstinence remind you to go to confession once a month, that’s not a bad thing.) The honest, good faith effort is rewarding in itself. You MUST remain close and loving at all times and that isn’t always easy.

Even if you fall into sin, NEVER sterilize the act itself. That’s a major sin.

 

[Em_in_FL]

We try to keep good humor and open communication. If my husband asks while I’m still in the fertile phase my normal response is, “Well, if you’re willing to start picking out names then we’re good to go!”
He response with a witty “Okie dokie!.. Let’s find a movie!” (or some other standard distraction…)
Just keep busy!.. and take an HONEST REFLECTION on why you’re avoiding conception in the first place. Maybe you ARE more ready than you think!?!
Believe me, when the reasons for avoiding conception become more and more complicated and huge in your life, abstaining is not an issue… AT ALL.

 

[waywardson]

We try to keep good humor and open communication. If my husband asks while I’m still in the fertile phase my normal response is, “Well, if you’re willing to start picking out names then we’re good to go!”
He response with a witty “Okie dokie!.. Let’s find a movie!” (or some other standard distraction…)
Just keep busy!.. and take an HONEST REFLECTION on why you’re avoiding conception in the first place. Maybe you ARE more ready than you think!?!
Believe me, when the reasons for avoiding conception become more and more complicated and huge in your life, abstaining is not an issue… AT ALL.

That is why I believe it is extremely difficult to use NFP “selfishly” and way too much ink has been spilled (and electrons inconvenienced) about it. The whole process is oriented toward openness to life and is contrary to selfishness.

When you have “just reasons” to avoid, you know you have “just reasons”. You have to fight nature every month to avoid, so the process itself tests your reasons.

Also, not all “possibly fertile” days are created equal, so after you get some experience, you can “adjust” based on your comfort level and the true seriousness of your reasons.

For example, a couple could be comfortable with using the second or third green/yellow baby day (for you Billings/Creighton folks), but not a white one. (Dr. Lyn Billings says these are “margin of error” days for the occasional delayed ovulation. Fertility officially ends at 11:59PM on the last “baby day”, but often it has actually ended long before that. They are generally not used for TTC.) Or not waiting on all the temps and full cross-check. The NFP rules are not the moral law.

 

[Moore11]

That is why I believe it is extremely difficult to use NFP “selfishly” and way too much ink has been spilled (and electrons inconvenienced) about it. The whole process is oriented toward openness to life and is contrary to selfishness.

When you have “just reasons” to avoid, you know you have “just reasons”. You have to fight nature every month to avoid, so the process itself tests your reasons.

Also, not all “possibly fertile” days are created equal, so after you get some experience, you can “adjust” based on your comfort level and the true seriousness of your reasons.

For example, a couple could be comfortable with using the second or third green/yellow baby day (for you Billings/Creighton folks), but not a white one. Or not waiting on all the temps and full cross-check. The NFP rules are not the moral law.

I think it is difficult to use NFP “selfishly” but I also believe many do. There would be no guys complaining about abstaining if not abstaining meant the death of your wife. Most of the time it is people who wish to control reproduction in an ABC mindset. And those are the ones you hear about. I know my wife and I fought like cats and dogs. Because there were not just reasons in my mind but there were in hers.

 

[waywardson]

I think it is difficult to use NFP “selfishly” but I also believe many do. There would be no guys complaining about abstaining if not abstaining meant the death of your wife. Most of the time it is people who wish to control reproduction in an ABC mindset. And those are the ones you hear about. I know my wife and I fought like cats and dogs. Because there were not just reasons in my mind but there were in hers.

You aren’t the one who gets pregnant. That’s probably why she was more concerned about it.

She may have serious reasons even if you do not. This is not unusual. Husbands have to respect this. It is part of our obligation to love our wives.

Loving your wife and respecting her reasons may make her more open to the possibility. Accusing her of being selfish or begging her for sex and “fighting like cats and dogs” will definitely not.

 

[helplesspilgrim]

Non-catholic husband here “using” NFP with my catholic wife. Not to get into any details due to several reasons its dangerous for my wife to be pregnant and NFP rules make us completely abstinent, and we are fairly newly married still. Basically we’re lookig at 30+ years before we can be worry free intimate with each other. My advice, that I do:

1. Workout until your about to throw up and can barely walk.
2. Read a lot.
3. Try to study the faith.
4. Cry it out.
5. Workout again.
6. Cry it out.
7. Cry it out.

Try and stay as busy as humanely possible, running ragged everyday so your mind has no free time to think about it. Its not really possible, but it might take the edge off.

1. Offer it up
2. Realize that this might just be the way its going to be for whatever reason.
3. Have each others best interest in mind always. And always talk about stuff (this might make it for difficult if you start talking cute to each other).

 

[underacloud]

Non-catholic husband here “using” NFP with my catholic wife. Not to get into any details due to several reasons its dangerous for my wife to be pregnant and NFP rules make us completely abstinent, and we are fairly newly married still. Basically we’re lookig at 30+ years before we can be worry free intimate with each other. My advice, that I do:

1. Workout until your about to throw up and can barely walk.
2. Read a lot.
3. Try to study the faith.
4. Cry it out.
5. Workout again.
6. Cry it out.
7. Cry it out.

Try and stay as busy as humanely possible, running ragged everyday so your mind has no free time to think about it. Its not really possible, but it might take the edge off.

1. Offer it up
2. Realize that this might just be the way its going to be for whatever reason.
3. Have each others best interest in mind always. And always talk about stuff (this might make it for difficult if you start talking cute to each other).

Wow. I really feel for you. I get frustrated during the fertile NFP time, but can’t even imagine total abstinence. I really admire the way you put your wife’s health first.

Tonight, while I’m waiting out my wife’s fertile window and trying to focus on other things, I’ll keep you in my prayers, that your situtation may improve…whatever that means with regards to God’s plan for you.

In terms of practical advice for the OP, I agree that exercise…and fairly intense exercise…can be helpful.

I’d also say don’t start what you can’t finish. It’s very tempting to kiss and cuddle in an affectionate manner, and that’s fine for any married couple, but it can (I’m tempted to say will) lead to immense frustration. The potential physical discomfort for the male (and even female) means arousal from physical affection is best avoided during the fertile NFP phase.

 

[Moore11]

Non-catholic husband here “using” NFP with my catholic wife. Not to get into any details due to several reasons its dangerous for my wife to be pregnant and NFP rules make us completely abstinent, and we are fairly newly married still. Basically we’re lookig at 30+ years before we can be worry free intimate with each other. My advice, that I do:

1. Workout until your about to throw up and can barely walk.
2. Read a lot.
3. Try to study the faith.
4. Cry it out.
5. Workout again.
6. Cry it out.
7. Cry it out.

Try and stay as busy as humanely possible, running ragged everyday so your mind has no free time to think about it. Its not really possible, but it might take the edge off.

1. Offer it up
2. Realize that this might just be the way its going to be for whatever reason.
3. Have each others best interest in mind always. And always talk about stuff (this might make it for difficult if you start talking cute to each other).

Wow. That is an amazing situation. Do you get annoyed at others who complain about NFP who dont have such a precarious situation as you do?

 

[Moore11]

You aren’t the one who gets pregnant. That’s probably why she was more concerned about it.

She may have serious reasons even if you do not. This is not unusual. Husbands have to respect this. It is part of our obligation to love our wives.

Loving your wife and respecting her reasons may make her more open to the possibility. Accusing her of being selfish or begging her for sex and “fighting like cats and dogs” will definitely not.

She did not have serous reasons. period. We discussed it all the time. We are now pregnant with our 4th and this is by far her easiest pregnancy.
I think she is coming around to not using NFP with a contraceptive mentality which she was.
So things are good for us.

I was patient and prayerful while keeping up communication with my wife on why we were abusing NFP. It worked.

 

[helplesspilgrim]

Wow. That is an amazing situation. Do you get annoyed at others who complain about NFP who dont have such a precarious situation as you do?

Annoyed? Maybe ocassionally, but every case is different and while i’d love to have the free days some have i wouldn’t want the marital strife they may have on other issues, minus the perpetul absitence, our marriage is amazing. Different crosses i guess. I, i should say we, get frustrated when people have a loose attitude about the situation; NFP institutions telling us to just get pregnant and hope its okay, instructors bailing us because they don’t get the chart, priests scoffing at us for “complaining” people thinking we are absolutely insane to have deal with this. We try to let it just roll off but it truly does hurt, and there are no answers given to us or course of action. It doesn’t fit nicely in the defined box, we’re told good luck, and dropped out of peoples and the churches thoughts. I’m glad it works so well for some people, but those of us who it has so far been a total failure are told to be abstinent for the rest of our fertile lives, make sure to stay intimate…but not too intimate, and then given no further consideration or help. But as long as my wife can still take communion which means the world to her, and her health is not comprimised by a pregnancy I can endure. But our intimate life is dead. And may forever be, much to our deep sadness. I got kinda lost in my thoughts there. Sorry. But no not annoyed, happy for them, hope they know how good they got it. And I’ll pray it gets even better for them.