Mental/emotional affair

[exiled]

Not that many guilty men will ever admit it, but what the heck am I supposed to do with a husband who just refuses to accept that he has violated our marriage vows and I am not going to ‘get over it’ in a matter of days, or even weeks?

My husband and I have always had struggles. He wants more sex, and more action-packed sex than I want, or even have the time to offer. This is simply having 8 children and everything that goes with it. Add to that his anger management issues (we’ve gone as a couple to priests and counselors a dozen times because of his temper and screaming) which don’t incline me to intimacy, and we just are always at odds. I’ll admit, I’m not a particularly affectionate person, and I will plead guilty to not putting him ahead of the children easily. We have had date nights and I try to make sure to get rid of kids weekly for intimate time with him. Last spring he went on one of his anger tirades with my 76 year old mother visiting. She had to hide in her room during it. That broke the camels back for a while. I refused to participate in our marriage in any way until he sought help. Finally, in August, he went to a priest. Part of the deal was that he needed to stop drinking and see the priest regularly. Well, didn’t happen. And while he has controlled his temper, we now have another problem.
Suspicious behavior started in September, but on Oct. 11 I sent him an email telling him that I suspected he was having a physical and/or emotional affair. Denial, of course. Many other things have happened, lots of ‘evidence’, but no proof, except one thing. I did find out through a third party source that he was having dinner/drinks with a female colleague, an occasion he specifically told me ‘one of the guys from work’ came by and we hung out. There have been at least 4 occasions that I know of where he has been alone with this woman, which he explains away as me making something out of nothing. Lastly, I told him that the behavior had to stop and I didn’t care what he had to say to her, but that even if it was innocent, it just plain old has to stop. I decided to check his phone Thanksgiving morning. Truth is, I’ve been trying to check it for weeks, but it’s attached to his hip all the time. Anyway, when I looked at it, he had just texted her that I was “giving him a hard time” and that he couldn’t hang out any more. More importantly, though, he had deleted the entire string of texts before that.
So, I’m rambling and babbling because I am just so fed up with being married to a child who has not impulse control. Someone who wants me to just move on when he gets called out on bad behavior. Who might say, “I’m sorry”, but makes absolutely NO attempt to repair, and gets angry all over again when I don’t get over it right away.
Anyway, any thoughts anyone has would be helpful. I can’t see clearly anymore. I do have a spiritual director, but I haven’t been able to get to him over this last week as things have reached fever pitch.

 

[pensmama87]

Sometimes, to have clarity, it helps me to think, “What would I tell a friend who was going through this same thing?”

He’s angry, scarily so. He drinks too much. Whether or not he’s “actually had an affair” he’s engaging in very inappropriate behavior for a married man, and doesn’t care that it bothers you.

Also, it seems very strange that you would discuss his affair via email, of all things. What led you to do that, rather than over the phone (at the least) or in person (ideal?) If you were afraid to do so, then I think you really need to think about that.

 

[pianistclare]

Sometimes, to have clarity, it helps me to think, “What would I tell a friend who was going through this same thing?”

He’s angry, scarily so. He drinks too much. Whether or not he’s “actually had an affair” he’s engaging in very inappropriate behavior for a married man, and doesn’t care that it bothers you.

Also, it seems very strange that you would discuss his affair via email, of all things. What led you to do that, rather than over the phone (at the least) or in person (ideal?) If you were afraid to do so, then I think you really need to think about that.

Yeah. Clearly you’re frightened of what he might do.
Find a lawyer at your parish who will help you and advise you of your state laws and options.
Let several people/families know that you are unsafe.
Get together everything you will need in case you have to flee suddenly.
Tell your priest. Everything.

I’ll pray for you.

 

[Tablefor9]

Praying for wisdom for you. You’ve had good advice.

 

[chevalier]

Both of you are facing difficult times in your lives and having to come to terms with the fact that the other has faults and your marriage isn’t living out a dream (nobody’s is).

Perhaps this is what’s making you a bit cold and him a bit angry — everybody has faults like that, and the key is to not create a delusion for oneself in which one’s own faults are justifiable or natural and other people’s (notably the spouse’s but not only) are not. This needs some distance and looking with compassion and no lawyering, no trying to win. The ‘no lawyering’ part may be difficult if you see what you’re doing as a necessary defence against untrue and unfair accusations, but even there, distance is needed.

As for emotional affair or bad texting, while some probability is always there (you can never have certainty with human beings in normal life like you could in maths, and it’s usually less than 90% sure as well), telling the female colleague he can’t meet her because his wife (that would be you, of course) is giving him a hard time does not strike me as the talk of a man terminating a flirtation, although it could perhaps be a case of seeking some sort of closeness or company without realizing the danger.

As for denial, denial is consistent both with lying and with actually being innocent. As for referring to his female colleague as ‘one of the guys from work’, that could be understandable (though I’m not saying right) after being accused of having an affair when not having one, which could have the effect of closing up, even resorting to white lies. In those situations saying something like: ‘hey, honey, I’m having lunch with a female colleague, hope you don’t mind,’ doesn’t really strike people as something that could work (and it quite likely wouldn’t work too well anyway). Nor does being married actually make it improper to have lunch with a colleague of the opposite sex, though something like stargazing is not something people who are just friends would normally have any business doing together.

As for checking his phone etc., I certainly don’t have enough information to decide if you had a good enough reason or not, but as much as you need some answers, you also need to avoid spiralling into allowing suspicion to control your actions and make you feel miserable. The same refers to making conclusions that walk far away from tangible proof, which is basically speculation and unlikely to be particularly logical when emotionally agitated (though it will certainly feel logical at that sort of time, more than any other).

As for people who say sorry but make no attempt to change their behaviour, that’s consistent — apart from just trying to get away with things or not having enough self-control — with the behaviour of people who nod along and apologize when they don’t feel they’ve done anything wrong, which is the reason why they don’t feel they should have to change the way they act, especially something that feels unfair, such as having to give up a friend or pastime because of someone else’s exaggerated (as they see it) sense of discomfort or insecurity.

I know that if I were married and if my wife acted in a way I felt unreasonable, overly jealous without a good reason to be, then I would certainly avoid the subject around her and not want to talk her about my female colleagues or friends because any such conversation could lead to a lot of stress and possible confrontation, where work is already draining enough on some days. On the other hand, I would not start treating everyone else as if contagious simply for being female simply because I knew she wanted me to, nor would I feel obliged to cut contact with my old female friends or actually do that. However, in feeling alienated like that and needing company, including female company because I would go insane being only ever around other men 100% of the time, I would probably reach out to family members more, or perhaps old friends I didn’t fancy ‘that way’ or they me, just simply to avoid any temptation of trying to satisfy some sort of emotional need that should be the wife’s exclusive territory. A sister would be ideal.

I know this doesn’t answer your question, but on the basis of the little information you have I can’t. And I’m not saying anything I’ve just said here about possible explanations of this or that behaviour is true or probable, only that it’s possible, or rather appears possible to me on the basis of what little observations I have from you. This does include the fact that it’s not possible — on the basis of this information at least — to conclude that he has broken the vows.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Not that many guilty men will ever admit it, but what the heck am I supposed to do with a husband who just refuses to accept that he has violated our marriage vows and I am not going to ‘get over it’ in a matter of days, or even weeks?

My husband and I have always had struggles. He wants more sex, and more action-packed sex than I want, or even have the time to offer. This is simply having 8 children and everything that goes with it. Add to that his anger management issues (we’ve gone as a couple to priests and counselors a dozen times because of his temper and screaming) which don’t incline me to intimacy, and we just are always at odds. I’ll admit, I’m not a particularly affectionate person, and I will plead guilty to not putting him ahead of the children easily. We have had date nights and I try to make sure to get rid of kids weekly for intimate time with him. Last spring he went on one of his anger tirades with my 76 year old mother visiting. She had to hide in her room during it. That broke the camels back for a while. I refused to participate in our marriage in any way until he sought help. Finally, in August, he went to a priest. Part of the deal was that he needed to stop drinking and see the priest regularly. Well, didn’t happen. And while he has controlled his temper, we now have another problem.
Suspicious behavior started in September, but on Oct. 11 I sent him an email telling him that I suspected he was having a physical and/or emotional affair. Denial, of course. Many other things have happened, lots of ‘evidence’, but no proof, except one thing. I did find out through a third party source that he was having dinner/drinks with a female colleague, an occasion he specifically told me ‘one of the guys from work’ came by and we hung out. There have been at least 4 occasions that I know of where he has been alone with this woman, which he explains away as me making something out of nothing. Lastly, I told him that the behavior had to stop and I didn’t care what he had to say to her, but that even if it was innocent, it just plain old has to stop. I decided to check his phone Thanksgiving morning. Truth is, I’ve been trying to check it for weeks, but it’s attached to his hip all the time. Anyway, when I looked at it, he had just texted her that I was “giving him a hard time” and that he couldn’t hang out any more. More importantly, though, he had deleted the entire string of texts before that.
So, I’m rambling and babbling because I am just so fed up with being married to a child who has not impulse control. Someone who wants me to just move on when he gets called out on bad behavior. Who might say, “I’m sorry”, but makes absolutely NO attempt to repair, and gets angry all over again when I don’t get over it right away.
Anyway, any thoughts anyone has would be helpful. I can’t see clearly anymore. I do have a spiritual director, but I haven’t been able to get to him over this last week as things have reached fever pitch.

I’m sorry. You have every right to feel upset and unsafe.

 

[exiled]

Both of you are facing difficult times in your lives and having to come to terms with the fact that the other has faults and your marriage isn’t living out a dream (nobody’s is).

Perhaps this is what’s making you a bit cold and him a bit angry — everybody has faults like that, and the key is to not create a delusion for oneself in which one’s own faults are justifiable or natural and other people’s (notably the spouse’s but not only) are not. This needs some distance and looking with compassion and no lawyering, no trying to win. The ‘no lawyering’ part may be difficult if you see what you’re doing as a necessary defence against untrue and unfair accusations, but even there, distance is needed.

As for emotional affair or bad texting, while some probability is always there (you can never have certainty with human beings in normal life like you could in maths, and it’s usually less than 90% sure as well), telling the female colleague he can’t meet her because his wife (that would be you, of course) is giving him a hard time does not strike me as the talk of a man terminating a flirtation, although it could perhaps be a case of seeking some sort of closeness or company without realizing the danger.

As for denial, denial is consistent both with lying and with actually being innocent. As for referring to his female colleague as ‘one of the guys from work’, that could be understandable (though I’m not saying right) after being accused of having an affair when not having one, which could have the effect of closing up, even resorting to white lies. In those situations saying something like: ‘hey, honey, I’m having lunch with a female colleague, hope you don’t mind,’ doesn’t really strike people as something that could work (and it quite likely wouldn’t work too well anyway). Nor does being married actually make it improper to have lunch with a colleague of the opposite sex, though something like stargazing is not something people who are just friends would normally have any business doing together.

As for checking his phone etc., I certainly don’t have enough information to decide if you had a good enough reason or not, but as much as you need some answers, you also need to avoid spiralling into allowing suspicion to control your actions and make you feel miserable. The same refers to making conclusions that walk far away from tangible proof, which is basically speculation and unlikely to be particularly logical when emotionally agitated (though it will certainly feel logical at that sort of time, more than any other).

As for people who say sorry but make no attempt to change their behaviour, that’s consistent — apart from just trying to get away with things or not having enough self-control — with the behaviour of people who nod along and apologize when they don’t feel they’ve done anything wrong, which is the reason why they don’t feel they should have to change the way they act, especially something that feels unfair, such as having to give up a friend or pastime because of someone else’s exaggerated (as they see it) sense of discomfort or insecurity.

I know that if I were married and if my wife acted in a way I felt unreasonable, overly jealous without a good reason to be, then I would certainly avoid the subject around her and not want to talk her about my female colleagues or friends because any such conversation could lead to a lot of stress and possible confrontation, where work is already draining enough on some days. On the other hand, I would not start treating everyone else as if contagious simply for being female simply because I knew she wanted me to, nor would I feel obliged to cut contact with my old female friends or actually do that. However, in feeling alienated like that and needing company, including female company because I would go insane being only ever around other men 100% of the time, I would probably reach out to family members more, or perhaps old friends I didn’t fancy ‘that way’ or they me, just simply to avoid any temptation of trying to satisfy some sort of emotional need that should be the wife’s exclusive territory. A sister would be ideal.

I know this doesn’t answer your question, but on the basis of the little information you have I can’t. And I’m not saying anything I’ve just said here about possible explanations of this or that behaviour is true or probable, only that it’s possible, or rather appears possible to me on the basis of what little observations I have from you. This does include the fact that it’s not possible — on the basis of this information at least — to conclude that he has broken the vows.

I greatly appreciate your perspective. Let me just say that I am not the jealous type, and in fact he has mentioned females before, and I have no issue with it. “Lisa” has had lunch with him before and he says, “I had lunch with Lisa”. No big deal. The thing that convinces me that there is something else in his mind is that he made the specific point, with this particular woman, of saying he was with guys/a man. That tells me there is something amiss.

 

[chevalier]

I greatly appreciate your perspective.

Thank you, hope it helps.

Let me just say that I am not the jealous type,

I have a tendency to be or rather used to, so I try to see things from the perspective of someone who might be innocent and then see if that perspective adds up.

and in fact he has mentioned females before, and I have no issue with it. “Lisa” has had lunch with him before and he says, “I had lunch with Lisa”. No big deal. The thing that convinces me that there is something else in his mind is that he made the specific point, with this particular woman, of saying he was with guys/a man. That tells me there is something amiss.

Well, that could have been caused by a sense of being misunderstood plus avoiding confrontation, such as being already tired or stressed by work and taking the ugly shortcut of ‘white’ lie, which I think is not that rare with people who have communication problems and are not moral rigorists (a misguided evasive strategy, in other words), but if he had no specific reason to feel that way, then your explanation would seem to be the most logical one, as in the reason to lie must have come from somewhere.

Here’s what I would consider what came first: if the lie happened shortly after the two of you discussed that e-mail of his which suggested the possibility of his having an improper relationship, especially with a different woman than Lisa, then the probability of his being innocent at that point but fearing misjudgment in the future would be higher than without that connection, and I think it would actually be a strong probability. Not conclusive at all, but rather something that can’t realistically be excluded.

The probability of his being innocent in that thing with that e-mail obviously has a lot to do with how incriminating that e-mail was, not that I’m asking, but if you think it’s possible that he was actually innocent at that point and if it’s possible that he may have felt he got a lot of flak without deserving it in that discussion, and then you had a series of problems a short while later, then that could be the sort of thing to lead a non-cheating man to lie about spending time with a female colleague. Especially someone who has previously used white lies to get out of confrontations when he wasn’t even seriously guilty but just as a way of avoiding, withdrawing etc.

So I wouldn’t write him off as a likely cheater yet, but you deserve more clarity than you’re getting.

Sigh. Remind me to buy a polygraph if I decide to marry.

 

[pianistclare]

Sigh. Remind me to buy a polygraph if I decide to marry.

Nope. First and best way to fail at relationships: by assuming everyone is the same, and that one sex only behaves one way. Go into it with that attitude, and you’ll forever be disappointed.

 

[chevalier]

Nope. First and best way to fail at relationships: by assuming everyone is the same, and that one sex only behaves one way. Go into it with that attitude, and you’ll forever be disappointed.

Shshsh… I’m male and this is about a guy lying. My comment refers to how with other human beings you can never be sure they’re telling you the truth, only truth and all of it. We’re all unique, but this, unfortunately, is something we pretty much all have in common.

 

[EasterJoy]

Sigh. Remind me to buy a polygraph if I decide to marry.

Oh, heavens, no. If the Good Lord had meant for spouses to be able to read each other’s minds, we’d be mind-readers. No, no, there is a reason that contemplative monasteries so often enforce a vow of silence. Biting your tongue is one of the great capacities required to live in peaceful community. What if spouses had to answer each other’s questions with a blunt yes-or-no on demand? Oh, no, don’t go there!!

Which of us, after all, could expose our every thought to all who knew us and still have a friend left after a week?

No, much of the work of relationships is in trying to figure out how to be honest and kind at the same time, how to be open and yet gentle at the same time, and to avoid tempting others into sin by furnishing thoughts that ruin their peace. Doing that work even competently requires the ability to exercise discretion in which of our thoughts we do and do not disclose, and when, and how.

 

[chevalier]

Oh, heavens, no. If the Good Lord had meant for spouses to be able to read each other’s minds, we’d be mind-readers. No, no, there is a reason that contemplative monasteries so often enforce a vow of silence. Biting your tongue is one of the great capacities required to live in peaceful community. What if spouses had to answer each other’s questions with a blunt yes-or-no on demand? Oh, no, don’t go there!!

Which of us, after all, could expose our every thought to all who knew us and still have a friend left after a week?

Naturally, before asking: ‘What do you honestly think of our relationship?,’ one would unplug the thing pronto. There are, after all, some things one doesn’t need to know the true answer to. ‘Who were you with?,’ however, is not normally one of them.

 

[RosyAnne]

Not that many guilty men will ever admit it, but what the heck am I supposed to do with a husband who just refuses to accept that he has violated our marriage vows and I am not going to ‘get over it’ in a matter of days, or even weeks?

My husband and I have always had struggles. He wants more sex, and more action-packed sex than I want, or even have the time to offer. This is simply having 8 children and everything that goes with it. Add to that his anger management issues (we’ve gone as a couple to priests and counselors a dozen times because of his temper and screaming) which don’t incline me to intimacy, and we just are always at odds. I’ll admit, I’m not a particularly affectionate person, and I will plead guilty to not putting him ahead of the children easily. We have had date nights and I try to make sure to get rid of kids weekly for intimate time with him. Last spring he went on one of his anger tirades with my 76 year old mother visiting. She had to hide in her room during it. That broke the camels back for a while. I refused to participate in our marriage in any way until he sought help. Finally, in August, he went to a priest. Part of the deal was that he needed to stop drinking and see the priest regularly. Well, didn’t happen. And while he has controlled his temper, we now have another problem.
Suspicious behavior started in September, but on Oct. 11 I sent him an email telling him that I suspected he was having a physical and/or emotional affair. Denial, of course. Many other things have happened, lots of ‘evidence’, but no proof, except one thing. I did find out through a third party source that he was having dinner/drinks with a female colleague, an occasion he specifically told me ‘one of the guys from work’ came by and we hung out. There have been at least 4 occasions that I know of where he has been alone with this woman, which he explains away as me making something out of nothing. Lastly, I told him that the behavior had to stop and I didn’t care what he had to say to her, but that even if it was innocent, it just plain old has to stop. I decided to check his phone Thanksgiving morning. Truth is, I’ve been trying to check it for weeks, but it’s attached to his hip all the time. Anyway, when I looked at it, he had just texted her that I was “giving him a hard time” and that he couldn’t hang out any more. More importantly, though, he had deleted the entire string of texts before that.
So, I’m rambling and babbling because I am just so fed up with being married to a child who has not impulse control. Someone who wants me to just move on when he gets called out on bad behavior. Who might say, “I’m sorry”, but makes absolutely NO attempt to repair, and gets angry all over again when I don’t get over it right away.
Anyway, any thoughts anyone has would be helpful. I can’t see clearly anymore. I do have a spiritual director, but I haven’t been able to get to him over this last week as things have reached fever pitch.

I’m sorry you’re going through this exiled, that’s a lot to deal with . I don’t have any advice for you except to recommend developing a devotion to the Holy Family. A picture (even a holy card) or statue and daily prayers for their help. I swear they helped our marriage get through the crazy times (30+ years of marriage so far). Our craziness/dysfunction was different in some aspects and the same in others.

 

[EasterJoy]

In talking about the father of your eight children, you say you are “fed up with being married to a child who has no impulse control.”

In place of communication, you decided that the way a woman ought to confront her husband about her fears of infidelity was to *e-mail him *with a direct accusation. The way to deal with his anger management issues was to withhold yourself from him emotionally and sexually. After denying him your friendship altogether unless he did as you told him to do, you seem surprised that he sought the friendship of another woman.

You also report, *I decided to check his phone Thanksgiving morning. Truth is, I’ve been trying to check it for weeks, but it’s attached to his hip all the time. Anyway, when I looked at it, he had just texted her that I was “giving him a hard time” and that he couldn’t hang out any more. *Which is to say, you’ve been trying by hook or by crook to violate his privacy and he’s quite aware of it. If you had some right to see his text messages, you’d openly tell him you were going to look at his text messages. You wouldn’t sneak around so you could do it behind his back. I am thinking, however, that you believe you are justified in acting this way and then feeling hurt that he resents it.

You, mother of eight, sound as if you and your husband are headed straight for a divorce, and not an amicable one. Why, I do not know, but the symptoms are as serious as crushing chest paints and shortness of breath. You don’t trust each other. You don’t share a friendship with each other. You don’t have respect for each other. You deal with problems by withdrawing from the relationship. (Again: why, I do not know. This is not about blame, but about looking at* the symptoms that can be seen from the outside*.)

Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Try again to get together with your husband to figure out how to get past your perpetual problems with a crash course in communication skills and two major attitude adjustments. Otherwise, familiarize yourself with your finances and figure out how you are going to pay for and emotionally guide your children through a very nasty divorce. Those come about unilaterally these days, and I very much doubt you will both avoid the temptation of choosing one until natural death does you part.

staymarriedblog.com/the-art-science-of-love-15-favorite-moments-staymarried/?ct=t(July_Upcoming_ASL7_30_2015

gottman.com/couples/workshops/art-science-of-love/

 

[EasterJoy]

PS Do not think there is no good news, here. Learning how to communicate and how to navigate conflict can lead to sea change improvements that you could not have imagined even on the day you married.

For instance, you said, “I’ll admit, I’m not a particularly affectionate person.” It could be that you need the aphrodisiac of* listening*, and you don’t know what it is like to feel safe in expecting it* from a man.* It is very hard to be affectionate when you feel you have to guard yourself from discovery. It is possible that you are far more affectionate than even your husband dares to believe you are.

 

[Xantippe]

In talking about the father of your eight children, you say you are “fed up with being married to a child who has no impulse control.”

In place of communication, you decided that the way a woman ought to confront her husband about her fears of infidelity was to e-mail him with a direct accusation. The way to deal with his anger management issues was to withhold yourself from him emotionally and sexually. After denying him your friendship altogether unless he did as you told him to do, you seem surprised that he sought the friendship of another woman.
**
You also report, *I decided to check his phone Thanksgiving morning. Truth is, I’ve been trying to check it for weeks, but it’s attached to his hip all the time. Anyway, when I looked at it, he had just texted her that I was “giving him a hard time” and that he couldn’t hang out any more. *Which is to say, you’ve been trying by hook or by crook to violate his privacy and he’s quite aware of it. If you had some right to see his text messages, you’d openly tell him you were going to look at his text messages. You wouldn’t sneak around so you could do it behind his back. I am thinking, however, that you believe you are justified in acting this way and then feeling hurt that he resents it.

You, mother of eight, sound as if you and your husband are headed straight for a divorce, and not an amicable one. Why, I do not know, but the symptoms are as serious as crushing chest paints and shortness of breath. You don’t trust each other. You don’t share a friendship with each other. You don’t have respect for each other. You deal with problems by withdrawing from the relationship. (Again: why, I do not know. This is not about blame, but about looking at* the symptoms that can be seen from the outside*.)

Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Try again to get together with your husband to figure out how to get past your perpetual problems with a crash course in communication skills and two major attitude adjustments. Otherwise, familiarize yourself with your finances and figure out how you are going to pay for and emotionally guide your children through a very nasty divorce. Those come about unilaterally these days, and I very much doubt you will both avoid the temptation of choosing one until natural death does you part.

staymarriedblog.com/the-art-science-of-love-15-favorite-moments-staymarried/?ct=t(July_Upcoming_ASL7_30_2015

gottman.com/couples/workshops/art-science-of-love/

To be quite fair to the OP, she says “My husband and I have always had struggles. He wants more sex, and more action-packed sex than I want, or even have the time to offer. This is simply having 8 children and everything that goes with it. Add to that his anger management issues (we’ve gone as a couple to priests and counselors a dozen times because of his temper and screaming) which don’t incline me to intimacy, and we just are always at odds.”

The stuff that you mention that I highlighted was not the OP’s first response to her husband’s anger, but her last response.

I’d also point out that, given that the couple has 8 children, I think it’s fair to assume that the OP has been a pretty good sport up until recently about meeting her husband’s “needs.”

He also has a drinking problem, which I suspect is a nasty combination with his rage issues.

 

[Xantippe]

I think it’s up to the OP’s husband to get his rage under control. I would ask for a psychiatric evaluation.

There might be a serious underlying psychiatric condition, which would explain why all these visits to priests and counselors yielded so little effect. His rages may be something that he really cannot control without medication (or maybe even on medication)–but that’s really not something the OP can fix for him.

 

[EasterJoy]

To be quite fair to the OP, she says “My husband and I have always had struggles. He wants more sex, and more action-packed sex than I want, or even have the time to offer. This is simply having 8 children and everything that goes with it. Add to that his anger management issues (we’ve gone as a couple to priests and counselors a dozen times because of his temper and screaming) which don’t incline me to intimacy, and we just are always at odds.”

The stuff that you mention that I highlighted was not the OP’s first response to her husband’s anger, but her last response.

I’d also point out that, given that the couple has 8 children, I think it’s fair to assume that the OP has been a pretty good sport up until recently about meeting her husband’s “needs.”

He also has a drinking problem, which I suspect is a nasty combination with his rage issues.

Needs? Let us hope we all know that having sex often enough to get pregnant once every year or two says nothing about the health of a couple’s sex life. Procreative takes a lot less contact and pretty much a lot less of everything else than the unitive aspect. If you want to get to 60 years and laughing together as your grandchildren are toasted at their weddings, you have to find a way to unitive, too. This couple has to find a meeting of the minds over their perpetual problems if they are going to get there. The good news is that finding a ground of understanding and even an affectionate sense of humor about your perpetual problems has this way of being the most unitive thing ever to happen to your sex life.

What I’m saying has nothing to do with “fair.” The first thing you learn when you are from a family with eight or more children (which I am) is that you don’t worry about “fair” until you get to “good.” If you have to choose between unfair and good or fair and bad, you go with good and accept the unfairness of it as the price of admission.

As for the drinking problem, it is almost the rule that drug and alcohol abuse start as self-medication for emotional problems the drinker does not know how to handle and maybe cannot handle without support, affection, and a feeling of security in his own skin. Have you ever heard of someone threatening their spouse into clean and sober? I haven’t, and I’ll bet you haven’t, either. When that ever works, it works right away and before the path has been traveled long. It doesn’t work on a wagon road with deep ruts.

They’ll only get out of this marriage happy and together if they find a way to a trusting friendship. You don’t get there with “you straighten up, then we’ll talk about being friends.” That cannot work. How about, “you clean up, and then maybe you get one female friend, which will be me, the woman who has made herself your warden?”

Again, this has nothing to do with fair. Of course the OP has earned the right to be her husband’s warden. The truth is, though, she can be his wife and best friend or she can be his warden. She cannot be both. She has to choose one and renounce the other. Doing that, however, will require that she and her husband learn how friends go about having fights. If they can’t have real conflicts and still remain friends, their marriage is over, except for their address.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think it’s up to the OP’s husband to get his rage under control. I would ask for a psychiatric evaluation.

There might be a serious underlying psychiatric condition, which would explain why all these visits to priests and counselors yielded so little effect. His rages may be something that he really cannot control without medication (or maybe even on medication)–but that’s really not something the OP can fix for him.

Gottman’s seminars deal with the concept of emotional flooding and how to self-manage that in the context of a conflict. I don’t know if they are the only ones, but they are among the most famous and are certainly the most evidence-based.

The OP may need to learn with her husband the signs in him that show he is experiencing emotional flooding. She may be able to see the signs before he is aware of them. If they can do that, they can learn how to help him learn to recognize his counter-productive emotional state coming on, deal with his emotional state directly before his frustration and anger erupt into rage but without attempting the futile strategy of putting a lid on it in the hopes it will go away.

In other words, she can help him to learn to recognize a physical state coming on that will preclude a skillful conflict. She can give him the assurance that he will have room to deal with that emotional state without capitulating or burying his frustrations. She can also learn to recognize counter-productive emotional strategies she may have, such as defensiveness or stonewalling.

I suggested the seminars I did because they come into research concerning how couples fight: that is, how the couples who are happily married fight as contrasted with the way couples who will eventually divorce fight. When the Gottmans learned that from careful observation of hundreds and hundreds of couples over many years, they developed methods of turning dirty fighters who cause damage but never get anywhere except into divorce court into fighters who are also lovers and best friends. Notice: these seminars don’t eliminate a couple’s conflicts. They teach couples to have fruitful conflicts that either don’t cause harm or else allow for clean healing from the bruises.

People think that happily married couples don’t have conflicts, but that isn’t true. They just know how to have them. It isn’t always quiet and reasonable. Couples can butt heads with strong emotions without hurting each other. They do have to learn how.

 

[tawny]

Yeah. Clearly you’re frightened of what he might do.
Find a lawyer at your parish who will help you and advise you of your state laws and options.
Let several people/families know that you are unsafe.
Get together everything you will need in case you have to flee suddenly.
Tell your priest. Everything.

I’ll pray for you.

Absolutely. Praying for you.