Mental Illness and the Soul

[inocente]

Sorry it has taken a while to respond to you: work had to come first.

No problem, I was away for a week too, and am going to have to miss responding on some of your comments at the moment for lack of time, sorry.

The first item is obvious: where did I ever use the word: “junk” with regard to the word, “rumor?”

Post #35, first para.

Good. It worked for you. However, I have posted back and forth with a young person, on CAF, who had severe BPD. The powerful drugs he was taking were of no avail. (You can check back through my posts to find the thread for yourself.) Further, my ex-gf has bi-polar disorder. Her drugs do not even help her go to sleep. She has to drink some rum, then, maybe, she can fall asleep. Of course, then, she has trouble waking up in the morning.

Mine was straight depression. I knew a girl with bipolar disorder, and when in the manic phase she would tell me how she’d beaten it for good this time, then it was heartbreaking knowing she’d be depressed again a few weeks later. Drugs have helped a lot of people, others prefer to live with it rather than endanger their creativity, but more can be done.

I would not become a practicing Scientologist: for many reasons. But most have little to do with the hearsay and rumor prevalent on the internet.

I’m not sure of the status of Scientology as a religion since some countries treat it as such, others as a commercial enterprise. Whether or not it is, the only aspect that concerns me is mental health, and thus the auditing process.

As I understand it, auditing relies on a secret technology, the e-meter. The e-meter may look cool and have the exciting name “Mark Super VII Quantum E-meter” but is no more than a Wheatstone bridge, a very simple electrical circuit that’s been around since 1833. We made them in school. They can be very sensitive, enough to measure skin resistance. That’s the most they can do. Hardly world beating or secret.



Reasonably enough each e-meter bears a statement by court order:

By itself, this meter does nothing. It is solely for the guide of Ministers of the Church in Confessionals and pastoral counseling. The Electrometer is not medically or scientifically capable of improving the health or bodily function of anyone and is for religious use by students and Ministers of the Church of Scientology only. - scribd.com/doc/5024758/Court-Order-FDA-Scientology-Dianetics-Hubbard-Emeter

And:

This text in Understanding the E-Meter [by Hubbard] is accompanied by three drawings. The first shows a man standing on a weighing scale, which reflects a weight of “150” (the units are not given). The next shows the man on the same scale, weighed down under a burden of “Mental Image Pictures”, and the scale indicates a weight of “180”. The last picture shows the man standing upright on the scale, now unburdened by “Mental Image Pictures” and with a smile on his face, while the scale again indicates a weight of “150”. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-meter#cite_note-scribd.com-15

In the text, Hubbard writes "This test has actually been made and an increase of as much as thirty pounds, actually measured on scales, has been added to, and subtracted from, a body by creating “mental energy.”

So by being “cleared” of “mental image pictures” with the aid of a Wheatstone bridge someone can lose 20% weight. The test is easy enough - put the subject on a fixed dietary regime and weigh them as they go through auditing, then if after they weigh less, Hubbard was on to something. I’ve found no evidence this has ever been attempted, instead the whole process seems to be shrouded in secrecy.

The point then is that while psychiatry’s record is hardly spotless, and whatever the merits of Scientology as a religion, and whether or not adherents are vilified, I can find no evidence that auditing works.

I mean I’ve tried but only found contrary evidence, and from the above it seems highly unlikely that it works unless by placebo effect, and that could only apply to believers. Whether or not auditing helps them I can only conclude that it can’t possibly help non-believers and so can’t be put forward as an alternative to other treatments unless or until we all sign-up to Scientology. Auditing seems a bit of a non-starter, and possibly risky, when it comes to mental health.

If you know otherwise by all means give sources. It’s really perplexing to me how anyone could possibly think auditing works.

 

[razredge]

Well that is a giant can of worms. At best we can say its a behavioral pattern inconsistent with normal development.

Of course “normal development” is something that is not exactly up to objective verification. A strict definition may in fact be beyond us at this time.

One the one hand, certain types of mental illnesses are easy to identify insofar as they violate common behavioral patterns. Extreme phobia against a cognitively neutral object is one. Obsessive-Compulsive disorders regarding a repetitive action is another.

On the other hand we also have a set of disorders that speak to a series of erroneous beliefs. A hard and fast rule of thumb points to a person who is either claiming something that is against the accumulated wisdom of society and against common experience.

If an individual claims he is the Emperor of Brazil and does so with much fervor of belief, we can of course deny his claim given our collective knowledge about the country and history of Brazil.

If an individual claims he can walk off a cliff and into the air without falling - again we would be inclined to say that the man has taken leave of his senses given that it would violate the known laws of physics and the more common sensical experience that no human being can accomplish that feat.
.

Hmm, wouldn’t homosexuality fit in here?

 

[Pieman333272]

Hmm, wouldn’t homosexuality fit in here?

Yeah, actually Homosexuality was a Sexual Paraphilia in the DSM until some Gay Rights Activists whined about it until the APA changed it. By that logic, people who support Gay “marriage” should also support pedophilia.

 

[razredge]

Yeah, actually Homosexuality was a Sexual Paraphilia in the DSM until some Gay Rights Activists whined about it until the APA changed it. By that logic, people who support Gay “marriage” should also support pedophilia.

Yes, I am aware how the APA changed the DSM in the 70s mainly due to pressure from the gay rights movement rather than evidence.

It always seemed to me that it was special pleading that homosexuality was a ‘normal’ lifestyle choice while pedophilia, bestiality, incest, etc. are all mental disorders.

Certainly none of the liberals would want to also allow polygamy, despite it being far more widely practiced (and historically & culturally accepted) than homosexuality.

 

[inocente]

It always seemed to me that it was special pleading that homosexuality was a ‘normal’ lifestyle choice while pedophilia, bestiality, incest, etc. are all mental disorders.

Others have also made that argument but I’ve never understood. Pedophilia involves minors who can’t by definition give consent, the act involves obsessively preying on another as an object. Likewise in bestiality.

The homosexual act is very different - it’s between consenting adults. You may deem it immoral but I can’t wrap my head round why it would be defined as a medical problem - do you really want medics trying to enforce every element of a morality?

 

[razredge]

Others have also made that argument but I’ve never understood. Pedophilia involves minors who can’t by definition give consent, the act involves obsessively preying on another as an object. Likewise in bestiality.

The homosexual act is very different - it’s between consenting adults.

True, pedophilia is not a good example, perhaps ephebophilia where the children are underage by a couple of years.

And who’s to say animals can’t give consent, there is a zoophilia community (and not an insignificant one either) out there who would disagree with you - it’s really just double standards anyway, we don’t ask animals consent for their meat, fur, milk, eggs. etc.

What about polygamy? Ostensibly, far more ‘normal’ than homosexuality,on every other page in the Old Testament and accepted in a huge amount of cultures (unlike homosexuality).

You may deem it immoral but I can’t wrap my head round why it would be defined as a medical problem - do you really want medics trying to enforce every element of a morality?

Funnily enough, my issue with homosexuality is not really a moral issue but a medical one - if there was no medical issue I would have no problem with it.

I really don’t see how something like ADHD, OCD or neuroticism can be a treatable mental disorder with prescribed medicine and homosexuality cannot.

If you’re interested I would recommend reading "The Noble Lie’ by Gary Greenberg (which has a chapter on this) or “Homosexuality: A Freedom to Far” by Charles Socarides.

 

[Pieman333272]

True, pedophilia is not a good example, perhaps ephebophilia where the children are underage by a couple of years.

How about sexual fetishism? It’s considered a mental disorder and the person must give consent.

I really don’t see how something like ADHD, OCD or neuroticism can be a treatable mental disorder with prescribed medicine and homosexuality cannot.

Not all mental illnesses can be treated with medicine. I’m not sure if ADHD can. However, all mental illnesses can be treated with therapy.

 

[razredge]

Not all mental illnesses can be treated with medicine. I’m not sure if ADHD can. However, all mental illnesses can be treated with therapy.

They take Ritalin - while I’m not saying than homosexuality can be treated with medicine - the entire medical and scientific community have not only completely given up but are actually virulently hostile to any notion of researching treatment for homosexuality - which is decidedly against the spirit of medicine and science.

 

[inocente]

And who’s to say animals can’t give consent, there is a zoophilia community (and not an insignificant one either) out there who would disagree with you - it’s really just double standards anyway, we don’t ask animals consent for their meat, fur, milk, eggs. etc.

True, but if someone hurts an animal we’d see them as wrong and so does the law, and it’s likely they have a mental problem if they’re fixated on being cruel. In the same way bestiality is not just seen as wrong but may also indicate an underlying issue - if a person is intent on being so intimate and yet has no way to gauge consent, something seems to have gone badly adrift in their thinking.

What about polygamy? Ostensibly, far more ‘normal’ than homosexuality,on every other page in the Old Testament and accepted in a huge amount of cultures (unlike homosexuality).

Polygamists contribute normally to society, are not harming themselves or anyone else, and don’t go to their doctor looking to be cured, so I can’t see a case for it being treated as a mental disorder. It may be seen as immoral, it may be against the law to marry more than one person, but it’s not a medical issue. Homosexuality doesn’t seem any different.

I really don’t see how something like ADHD, OCD or neuroticism can be a treatable mental disorder with prescribed medicine and homosexuality cannot.

The thing about OCD, etc., is that it can stop someone functioning normally. The Hippocratic Oath kind of requires that either a patient wants to be healed or (if unconscious, etc.) would definitely be better off if treated. Where a homosexual doesn’t want to change there’s no basis for intervention. The Oath does after all contain the line “Above all, I must not play at God.”