Mentally challenged people

[BarbTh]

Come to think of it. I know a priest who suffers a mental illness and is still a faithful active priest in every sense of the word. Prior to every Confession, if the priest does not know me, I prefix my confession with “I have a mental illness and have made private vows to the EC”. When I first met Father with the MI in Confession, he said to me “Well I suffer a MI too, so we can dispense with that. But about the private vows, why on earth did you do that!” So I told him. After which, he replied “Well you seem all together to me”. Going home with my next door neighbour, also Catholic, he could not stop laughing, neither could I, that a priest had said I was all together"!

Sometimes all a sufferer needs is positive support and others just might be amazed at what they can achieve. It is well known in psychiatric circles that the major problem in sufferers of MI being able to integrate into society is false and incorrect stigmatization. I can identify with stigmata and stigmatization being similarly constructed of the same word: “stigma”.
Other than that, I think it is an honor and privilege to be asked to suffer in some sort of disgrace. Jesus died in disgrace to many around Him. Scriputre says that He was not a pleasant sight on Calvary: “Surely He took on our infirmities and carried our sorrows; yet we considered Him stricken by God, struck down and afflicted” (Isaiah 53)
Sufferers of MI especially can be pushed to the fringes of society (and worse)due to their illness.

Yep! even today still.

 

[puer.dei]

That’s the premise of Harvey :

My favorite movie, ever, in any universe.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Why did God put them here? Why did God create human beings who don’t even have the mental capacity to recognise who he is? Why did God create some people whose mental disabilities are actually dangerous to those around them?

The answers are apparent by observing the rest of creation. He created rootless moss and majestic oak trees. The lowliest slithering creatures and roaring lions.

God clearly has a BIG imagination and likes variety.

 

[DeniseNY]

The answers are apparent by observing the rest of creation. He created rootless moss and majestic oak trees. The lowliest slithering creatures and roaring lions.

I know that there was no ill intent, but this just doesn’t come across well.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

 

[MtnDwellar]

Although I’m a fairly accomplished writer in other areas, I must really suck at forums.

My intent was to point out that God created a wide variety of plant and animal life. The same is true for mankind. Needless to say, He is pleased by all.

How did it come across?

 

[Margaret_Ann]

God clearly has a BIG imagination and likes variety.

IIRC my theology, strictly speaking God does not have an imagination because He “is everywhere present and fills all things” (c.f. Heavenly King - the prayer to the Holy Spirit). He “orders all things sweetly” and does everything perfectly because He IS Perfect in every way. What we see as ugly or useless (e.g. the appendix, tonsils), God created for a definite purpose. Our job is to find out what His purpose is and understand it in some small degree.

 

[DeniseNY]

Kind of reads like a comparison of challenged people to moss.

I do appreciate your response. I know that that’s not how it was meant.

 

[Dolphin]

Everyone has innate worth and loved by God. This post could be used to rationalize aborting mentally challenged people which is very sad

 

[Polak]

Why are there able-bodied and average intelligence people on this earth who maim and kill others?

There’s a difference. If they do it as a choice, then they have simply picked evil over good. Sadly there are a lot of people who choose evil in this world. However a violent mentally ill person doesn’t understand that. It’s almost like he has been pre-set with the default to do harm to others by God.

We don’t know what they know in the depths of their hearts, if they cannot tell us. We can only assume.

That’s true, but much like people say things like ‘perhaps dolphins are the smartest creatures in the world. We just don’t know’ I have serious doubts about whether severely intellectually disabled people understand the idea of Christianity in any way shape or form.

Yes indeed. The OP seems to be confounding the two.

I am including both actually.

there’s a difference between being “mentally ill” and being mentally/intellectually disabled.

Yes, and I referenced both in my post. People with intellectual disabilities who don’t understand the most basic things, and people with mental illnesses, some who can become very violent to others around them because of it.

You’re ascribing something to God which doesn’t belong to His actions.

So a mentally disabled person isn’t created that way by God? Are you saying this is linked more to errors of the ancestors or even more directly, the mother (e.g. smoking and drinking while pregnant)?

The ‘R’ word is no longer really appropriate. Thank you.

The ‘R’ word has been used in a derogatory form by some (usually against able bodied and minded people), but the actual word itself isn’t supposed to be derogatory and I wasn’t aiming to use it in a derogatory way. Anyway, the title has been altered anyway.

Both my menatally ill and mentally retarded patients have good days and bad days, likes and dislikes, they smile and laugh and cry.

So to claim it’s non stop misery for Them or their caregivers isn’t really accurate.

I’m not necessarily claiming it is non stop misery for them, but that for example, they don’t understand the idea of God and have no choice to even try to understand it. My question is, why would God put such people in this world, who cannot every try to love him because of how their brain works? They don’t choose not to love him, they simply cannot. I’m not sure if this is the case with your patients, but I’m sure it is with some people who have severe mental disabilities.

 

[Gorgias]

So a mentally disabled person isn’t created that way by God?

Not as such. God doesn’t reach down to the womb of the mother and create mental and physical disabilities.

Are you saying this is linked more to errors of the ancestors or even more directly, the mother (e.g. smoking and drinking while pregnant)?

I’m saying that it’s due to the human condition, without attempting to demonize or place the blame on any particular person.

 

[OddBird]

It’s almost like he has been pre-set with the default to do harm to others by God.

Not sure if you’re meaning mental illness or mental handicap here, but if it’s the later, violence is often the expression of frustration and the failure to get oneself and one’s needs understood. My uncle, who was fairly communicative, was very bad at expressing when he was in pain. Bad temper was an indication that something was not right and we had to look for a physical cause. From what chaplain colleagues who work with mentally disabled people tell me, outbursts of violence often have similar origins (they’re in pain, or need to use the toilets and can’t, or there’s something happening in the room they can’t bear and can’t escape, and nobody seems to care).

So in their case, it’s not a “default pre-setting”, it’s a shared failure to communicate and it’s avoidable.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

The rate of violence isn’t all that higher among the mentally ill.

And because we entrust the mentally retarded to the mercy of God, why does this bother you so much?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

why does this bother you so much?

^^This. It makes me uncomfortable that someone would be so seemingly bothered by a group of people who are not doing them any harm.

You can just put them in the hands of God and not worry about them, unless of course you have a mentally challenged person in your own life as a child or a sibling or other close person, in which case you maybe want to discuss with your priest.

 

[Polak]

And because we entrust the mentally retarded to the mercy of God, why does this bother you so much?

It bothers me there are people that have been created by God, who can never know him in this world. I say bothers, I should rephrase. It’s very hard for me to understand.

People talk about some of these people still living happy lives. Sure, a hamster lives a happy life too in its own right, but it doesn’t understand why it’s here, what the point of its life is and that it was created by a God who also made the world. It doesn’t understand anything about Jesus. But animals were not created in the image of God. People were. Animals don’t need to know about God. People have been created to know God while on earth. Sure there are many people who don’t ‘know’ God in the world right now, but they have the mental capacity to understand if they are told about him, and then it’s up to them if they want to accept or reject him. The same can’t be done with hamsters, or with mentally handicapped people (the more severe ones I mean).

This is what causes me to think, why would God create a human, whose mission in life is to love God and live a life for God, who can’t possible do that, and instead needs care 24/7. The 1st commandment basically tells us to know and love God and not have other gods ahead of him. Severely mentally handicapped people can’t do that. Jesus also said the only way to heaven is through him. Again, many mentally handicapped people can’t know Jesus.

It makes me uncomfortable that someone would be so seemingly bothered by a group of people who are not doing them any harm.

Then you don’t understand what I am saying. I am not ‘bothered’ by them. I simply don’t understand why God would put such people in this world. A post above suggests it isn’t God who makes them mentally handicapped. This I might be able to understand more. But, given that God is all powerful, he could also take the ‘mental’ handicap away and at least allow these people to know him. Why would God allow people to have a condition in the world that prevents them from knowing and loving him?

That’s so wonderful. I know I couldn’t do it, I just don’t have the emotional bandwidth. I so very much admire those of you who can and do.

I do too. There is no way I could handle this. Certainly not as a full time occupation. Probably not even as something to do once or twice per week.

 

[Servant31]

Hey OP o/.

My initial thought was in the Bible. When Jesus was asked “whose sin in responsible for this persons disability, His or his parents’”…

Jesus said no one was as fault. God made them to glorify Himself somehow. There was a mentally challenged person at a gym I go to, the owners brother. He is great, everyone lets their egos go and it elevates all of us being around him. The gym owner builds schools in Africa. I can truly say he is a “light” for all of us.

Was this Gods intention, I couldn’t say, but it’s turning out that way. So honesty we don’t know why God makes the choices he does, but we can be assured it is to bring about a better more loving world. Who knows one day maybe there won’t be any diasease.

 

[BT3241]

I don’t know why maybe to test us like it or not we are bound to the natural world and what comes with it we can’t be above it that’s not how life works. These defects happen in all life.

 

[OddBird]

Again, many mentally handicapped people can’t know Jesus.

These ladies beg to differ.

Little Sisters Disciples of the Lamb - Wikipedia

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You seem to think that the only way to know and understand God is through mental faculties. That’s not the only way. Babies in the womb or newborn have very limited mental faculties, yet they experience God through the safety and comfort of their mother when unborn, and their mother and other loving humans when born. Likewise, mentally challenged people can experience comfort, love, the warmth of the sunshine on their face, a hug, any activity they enjoy. These things are experiences of God.

One thing I really don’t like about this and other apologetics forums is they tend to reduce the experience of God to some kind of logical understanding that is only accessible to people with enough education and understanding to crank through Aquinas or the Catechism or a Jimmy Akin scripture analysis. When your main tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and when you’re big into apologetics, you tend to forget that God manifests himself in ways other than catechetical understanding.

Also, as much as I love hamsters, it’s not appropriate for you to be comparing mentally challenged humans with souls to animals.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Are you worried that they’re going to go to Hell because they don’t have a personal experience of God?

Because that’s a way bigger tragedy than being imperfect.

But we trust them to God who is completely just and loves them more than we do.