Mentally handicapped and original sin

[mcloud]

If you want to say that God can give us the grace we need to avoid sin then I agree with you. However, you said that God could prevent us from sinning. That implies that He can do so whether we want to or not. In other words, He can force us. If He can force us, there is no free will.

Yes, the grace that He gives you “keeps you from stumbling” Jude 1:24. So, if he gives you grace that "keeps you from stumbling’ that grace, when you cooperate with it, prevents you from sinning. I don’t think I used the word “force” or shown to imply it. I’ve been using the word “cooperate”, “choose” and “grace”.

 

[mcloud]

So you believe that Fr. Most is incorrect when he says that Aquinas rejected it? Sorry, I think he put a little more study into the issue during his lifetime than you have.

Again, Aquinas did believe in something fictional: the delay between conception and the imparting of the soul. There is no delay. I don’t care if it was the common belief of the time. It’s fiction.

By the way, people of Aquinas’ time did believe the sun revolved around the earth.

So, Father Most is correct because he’s been studying for a long time? How so? Did you read the next sentence of his article about how it was unclear to Aquinas and that Father Most believes in the Immaculate Conception. I guess Father Most is correct about his teachings about the Immaculate Conception because he has been doing this for a long time.

Aquinas believed in the action of when the soul entered into the body. That’s not fiction. It’s truth. He believed in the action of something that is true. Aquinas didn’t think there was a delay. He applied his logic where, at the time, it applied to the moment of conception. Do you believe in fictional things right now? Or do you believe in truth with the information you have now? What happens when you are presented with better information that makes it more clear and it changes your viewpoint? Does that mean you believed in something fictional?

Please show me the quote from Aquinas.

 

[garysibio]

Yes, the grace that He gives you “keeps you from stumbling” Jude 1:24. So, if he gives you grace that "keeps you from stumbling’ that grace, when you cooperate with it, prevents you from sinning. I don’t think I used the word “force” or shown to imply it. I’ve been using the word “cooperate”, “choose” and “grace”.

Someone said that the passage in Jude meant that God could prevent us from sinning. If that were true, then God would be forcing us. That was what I was responding to.

 

[mcloud]

Someone said that the passage in Jude meant that God could prevent us from sinning. If that were true, then God would be forcing us. That was what I was responding to.

Do you believe in the Immaculate Conception?

 

[Randy_Carson]

If you want to say that God can give us the grace we need to avoid sin then I agree with you. However, you said that God could prevent us from sinning. That implies that He can do so whether we want to or not. In other words, He can force us. If He can force us, there is no free will.

Someone said that the passage in Jude meant that God could prevent us from sinning. If that were true, then God would be forcing us. That was what I was responding to.

That someone would be me, and yes, God can “prevent us from sinning” if we freely give Him permission to do so. He knows whether that prayer is genuine or not.

And then, if He does prevent a sin, He is actually doing so in accordance with our genuine desire and not violating the temporary and spontaneous attractions to sin that we may feel.