MERGED: And With Your Spirit

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By now, we all know about the new translation that is upon our doorstep. I welcome these changes! But it does bring up a question about the people’s response “And with your spirit.”

First off, I am aware of why this response was changed from “And also with you.” It is because it is the more accurate translation of the Latin. I get that.

But I’m wondering why the Latin even says “spiritu.” As Catholics, we heartily believe that the human is both body and soul. It would seem more “full” to have the reply encompass the full person, body and spirit. To say “and with your spirit” seems to downplay the bodily aspect of humanity – not to the point of Dualism or anything – but still it would seem better to wish God’s presence upon the full body and spirit of a person.
 
Something of interest in the comments.
…during the sign of peace…
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The correct response when some one says “Peace Be with you” and offers you his hand is “Amen” (So be it). You can find this written in Msgr Peter J. Elliott’s book “Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite.”
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Also, “and with you spirit” is not a Latin original. The response is used in the Eastern Rites who never used Latin, which points to an older origin of the response. Its quite likely the Apostles themselves used this very response.
 
I grew-up an Episcopalian. Until 1979, we always responded, “And with thy spirit,” to “The Lord be with you,” and that response is retained in the Rite I Eucharist. I was thrilled when I saw that the New Roman Missal restores that language to the liturgy. I’ve always thought that “And also with you” is too pedestrian a response.

On the whole, I am happy with the new translation.
 
“And also with you” always grated on me, because it sounded clunky with the double conjunction. “And with your spirit” flows better.
 
according to Edward Sri’s program explaining the translation (you can link it on EWTN and also watch it there) the response And with your spirit, from the people to the priest, acknowledges the unique way in which the Spirit resides in him by virtue of his ordination, and thus a dialoge beginning with that exchange is a specific acknowledgement of the priest’s unique role as acting in the person of Christ.

It is not “have a nice day” or “I’m ok you’re ok”.
 
for the first couple weeks you’ll have some hybred version, “And also with your spirit” till everyone gets use to the new response. 🙂
 
cheese_puff said:
for the first couple weeks you’ll have some hybred version, “And also with your spirit” till everyone gets use to the new response. 🙂
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Yep, that’s exactly where my parishes are…

“And also with you.(mumble mumble) …your spirit…”

“Lord, I am not worthy to receive…that you should come under my roof…”

Kind of like when you are learning a new language and your sentence structure comes out muddled…halfway between…
 
OK, but I have another question. The use of “spirit” reflects that the Spirit of God is in the priest in a special way. In fact, he acts “in persona Christi” at Mass.

But we often have a deacon proclaim the Gospel at Mass. Though he is ordained, does God reside in the deacon the same way as the priest at Holy Mass? When the deacon introduces the Gospel, does it make sense to still say “and with your spirit” to him?
 
puzzleannie said:
according to Edward Sri’s program explaining the translation (you can link it on EWTN and also watch it there) the response And with your spirit, from the people to the priest, acknowledges the unique way in which the Spirit resides in him by virtue of his ordination, and thus a dialogue beginning with that exchange is a specific acknowledgment of the priest’s unique role as acting in the person of Christ.

It is not “have a nice day” or “I’m ok you’re ok”.
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Or, “Right back atcha’ Father!”

Which was basically what I thought that exchange meant. I’m so glad it means more than that! Man, I love being Catholic!

👍
 
surritter said:
OK, but I have another question. The use of “spirit” reflects that the Spirit of God is in the priest in a special way. In fact, he acts “in persona Christi” at Mass.

But we often have a deacon proclaim the Gospel at Mass. Though he is ordained, does God reside in the deacon the same way as the priest at Holy Mass? When the deacon introduces the Gospel, does it make sense to still say “and with your spirit” to him?
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Follow whatever is in the new missal.

🙂
 
Of course — but the missal tells us to reply “and with your spirit” even to the deacon, which might poke holes in the theory that the use of “spirit” is a reference to God’s spirit present in the priest in a special way.
 
surritter said:
Of course — but the missal tells us to reply “and with your spirit” even to the deacon, which might poke holes in the theory that the use of “spirit” is a reference to God’s spirit present in the priest in a special way.
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From the link in my first post.
This understanding of the Greeting and response is confirmed by the fact that only a Bishop, priest or deacon may give the greeting “The Lord be with you” and hence receive the response, “and with your spirit. For example the General Instruction for the Celebration of Mass in the Absence of a Priest says:

The layperson is not to use words that are proper to a priest or deacon and is to omit rites that are too readily associated with the Mass, for example, greetings – especially “The Lord be with you” – and dismissals, since these might give the impression that the layperson is a sacred minister. (SCAP # 39)
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I understand what the missal says. I am delving into the meaning. The blog that you referenced was very helpful in explaining how the priest has a special relationship with God.

By having the missal tell us to use the same response for the deacon, the implication is that he too has that special relationship with God’ spirit. That’s the question I’m raising.
 
surritter said:
I understand what the missal says. I am delving into the meaning. The blog that you referenced was very helpful in explaining how the priest has a special relationship with God.

By having the missal tell us to use the same response for the deacon, the implication is that he too has that special relationship with God’ spirit. That’s the question I’m raising.
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A Deacon is also a ‘sacred minister’, so he does have a ‘special relationship with God’s spirit’.

Can. 1015 §1. Each person is to be ordained to the presbyterate or the diaconate by his proper bishop or with legitimate dimissorial letters from him.
 
surritter said:
By having the missal tell us to use the same response for the deacon, the implication is that he too has that special relationship with God’ spirit. That’s the question I’m raising.
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Actually this is a fair question. The initial translated versicles were along the lines of “May the spirit of the Lord be with you/And also with you.” but this was voted against.

It was not a literal translation, granted, but I think this probably addresses your concerns, which I’m sure many share with you.
 
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