MERGED: Ash Wednesday/Lent Fasting Questions

[tee_eff_em]

No meats, but you can also avoid other, especially the most enjoyable, foods.

A fine opinion, but I don’t think you’ll find explicit support for it from the Church.

tee

 

[Vico]

A fine opinion, but I don’t think you’ll find explicit support for it from the Church.

tee

Support is from the Pastoral 1966 which I quoted and the fact the USCCB embraces that statement. Or did you mean abstaining from meat?

1. Accordingly, since the spirit of penance primarily suggests that we discipline ourselves in that which we enjoy most, to many in our day abstinence from meat no longer implies penance, while renunciation of other things would be more penitential.

 

[thistle]

So I understand that today we can only eat one full me or two smaller meals, but are there rules about what those include? For the day, all I have available are snack foods, like chex mix. Could I make that my meal?

Bear in mind that fasting and abstinence are two different things. On Ash Wednesday and Good Friday you must abstain from eating meat and also fast.
Fasting only applies to the quantity of food you eat and not what type of food you eat.

 

[nsaeger]

Hi my name is Nate and I am currently in the RCIA program at St. John the Baptist Catholic Church in Marshfield, WI. I love Catholic Answers Radio Program, and I decided to join the Forum discussions.

Anyways, being that yesterday was my first Ash Wednesday fast experience I did not eat anything except our dinner, but I did drink coffee throughout the day. I struggle with headaches if I don’t drink coffee. In drinking coffee did I not fulfill my fast obligation? My wife says that it was fine as long as I didn’t eat. I am interested in more opinions. Thanks! :compcoff:

 

[Msgr_Rolo]

Yes, you did fine.

Coffee is a liquid and not a solid; therefore you did not commit any sin.

By fasting they mean solid foods and not liquids. I hope this helps you.

May God bless us in His efforts.

 

[nsaeger]

Thank you so much for responding. I’m glad to know that I fulfilled my first fast in accordance with Church teaching

 

[C794]

Thanks for the repliedls. That’s what I thought, but I heard something that made me think I was wrong. So I wanted to check to make sure. Thanks again!

 

[Mgray82]

Tomorrow I want to fast from food completely. One reason is for lent, obviously. The second reason being for a personal prayer request. I am asking God to help me with something and I want all the help and graces that I can get. My question is; does anyone have any information on how to abstain from food completely? Does the Church have any guidelines?

I’m also concerned that if I do abstain from food completely, that I may pass out or my sugar might bottom out or something. (I’m not diabetic by the way). So could I fast with the exception of maybe a few granola bars?

Any help or advice would be nice. I want to do this tomorrow. And I ask that you join me in prayer for this personal prayer request. Thanks and God bless you all!

 

[7_Sorrows]

Hi my name is Nate and I am currently in the RCIA program at St. John the Baptist Catholic Church in Marshfield, WI. I love Catholic Answers Radio Program, and I decided to join the Forum discussions.

Anyways, being that yesterday was my first Ash Wednesday fast experience I did not eat anything except our dinner, but I did drink coffee throughout the day. I struggle with headaches if I don’t drink coffee. In drinking coffee did I not fulfill my fast obligation? My wife says that it was fine as long as I didn’t eat. I am interested in more opinions. Thanks! :compcoff:

suffering from headaches if you don’t drink coffee is known as caffeine withdrawal. i had to give up all caffeine several years ago, and i experienced headaches for about a week after.

 

[dans0622]

For reference, here is what the old Catholic Encyclopedia had to say (note the distinction between simple liquids, liquids which are medicinal, and liquids considered to be food):

Strictly speaking, whatever may be classified under the head of liquids may be taken as drink or medicine at any time of the day or night on fasting days. Hence, water, lemonade, soda, water, ginger ale, wine, beer and similar drinks may be taken on fasting days outside meal time even though such beverages may, to some extent, prove nutritious. Coffee, tea, diluted chocolate, electuaries made of sugar, juniper berries, and citron may be taken on fasting days, outside meal time, as medicine by those who find them conducive to health. Honey, milk, soup, broth, oil or anything else having the nature of food, is not allowed under either of the two categories already specified.

newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm

I think this perspective is still pertinent since I know of no subsequent statement to the contrary which has come from a legislator in the Church.

Dan

 

[KrazyKat]

For reference, here is what the old Catholic Encyclopedia had to say (note the distinction between simple liquids, liquids which are medicinal, and liquids considered to be food):

newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm

I think this perspective is still pertinent since I know of no subsequent statement to the contrary which has come from a legislator in the Church.

Dan

Thank you for the quote. Saying we can use beef or chicken broth and calling a soup meatless is just not fact.

 

[maryjk]

Thank you for the quote. Saying we can use beef or chicken broth and calling a soup meatless is just not fact.

Depends on whether you believe the USCCB.

Q. I understand that all the Fridays of Lent are days of abstinence from meat, but I’m not sure what is classified as meat. Does meat include chicken and dairy products?

A. Abstinence laws consider that meat comes only from animals such as chickens, cows, sheep or pigs — all of which live on land. Birds are also considered meat. Abstinence does not include meat juices and liquid foods made from meat. **Thus, such foods as chicken broth, consomme, soups cooked or flavored with meat, meat gravies or sauces, as well as seasonings or condiments made from animal fat are technically not forbidden. ** However, moral theologians have traditionally taught that we should abstain from all animal-derived products (except foods such as gelatin, butter, cheese and eggs, which do not have any meat taste). Fish are a different category of animal. Salt and freshwater species of fish, amphibians, reptiles, (cold-blooded animals) and shellfish are permitted.

 

[tee_eff_em]

NB The quote from the Old Catholic Encyclopedia is distinguishing *liquid *(which does not break the fast) from *food *(even if it may be fluid and liquidy, and which would break the fast).

The quote from the USCCB is distinguishing *meat *(which is not permitted under abstinence) from *liquids dreived from meat *(which are not technically forbidden by abstinence)

Two different questions.

tee

 

[markomalley]

Thank you for the quote. Saying we can use beef or chicken broth and calling a soup meatless is just not fact.

Why?

I am not a fan of national episcopal conferences, but this is an area that is totally within their competence. Can. 1249 The divine law binds all the Christian faithful to do penance each in his or her own way. In order for all to be united among themselves by some common observance of penance, however, penitential days are prescribed on which the Christian faithful devote themselves in a special way to prayer, perform works of piety and charity, **and deny themselves **by fulfilling their own obligations more faithfully and especially by observing fast and abstinence, according to the norm of the following canons.

Can. 1250 The penitential days and times in the universal Church are every Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1252 The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Can. 1253 The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence as well as substitute other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.
You have to think about this a bit: do we abstain from meat as a Catholic version of kosher or a Catholic version of halal? Do we have our own Talmud or Hadith that we’re supposed to follow?

Do we abstain because of the meat? Or do we avoid meat on Fridays because we are to abstain?

According to the catechism (2043), we abstain because the exercise in ascesis helps prepare us for the feasts to follow. I would exercise that this miniscule exercise in asceticism helps draw us closer to God, as we are showing (ourselves, primarily) that we are not totally driven by our fleshy desires.

Don’t get me wrong: if you want to abstain more severely on Friday by avoiding all meat, meat products, meat juices, meat fat, eggs, milk, cheese, and meat simulations (e.g., tofurky). And, in fact, since it is meat protein, if you wish to add fish, seafood, reptiles, amphibians, and so on…by all means, do so!

In fact, you could adopt the fasting practices of the Eastern Orthodox during Great Lent…if done for the right reasons.

But if you choose to do so, be sure you are doing so for the right reasons (increased asceticism) versus legalism.

After all,

[bibledrb]Acts 10:15[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]Matthew 15:17-18[/bibledrb]

 

[KrazyKat]

Thank you for the quote. Saying we can use beef or chicken broth and calling a soup meatless is just not fact.

Thank you for the responses made regarding my simple post. I get it, hair splitting is permitted to please our taste buds so giving up meat does not become a sacrifice at all. Nice to know that no one breaks the “laws” by using meat derived products. Fasting in our day is two small meals which combined does not constitute a full meal, and then one full meal.

I suppose we need to search our own souls as to what is true sacrifice for us personally, when it comes to abstinence and fasting.

 

[maryjk]

Thank you for the responses made regarding my simple post. I get it, hair splitting is permitted to please our taste buds so giving up meat does not become a sacrifice at all. Nice to know that no one breaks the “laws” by using meat derived products. Fasting in our day is two small meals which combined does not constitute a full meal, and then one full meal.

I suppose we need to search our own souls as to what is true sacrifice for us personally, when it comes to abstinence and fasting.

You made an incorrect comment about what the rules are for abstinence.

And yet, somehow we are splitting hairs.

The correct response to our posts should have been.

Yes, you are right. I was wrong. Sorry

But personally, I would never use meat flavored broth when I am abstaining.

 

[Msgr_Rolo]

I was away from the Catholic Church for a long time and this is my first Lenten season since being back. I guess when I was younger, I didn’t really pay attention to the fasting rules during Lent.

Can someone help me out and explain to me what you eat during a fast? I know the rules are only 1 full meal but what else do you eat during the day and how often? If for example, I usually have a sandwhich, chips and an iced green tea for lunch, if I didn’t have the chips and the tea, would just the sandwhich be considered a meal? Should I do half a sandwich (with no chips and tea)?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Msgr_Rolo]

Eating during fasting is something light. Perhaps you can have a light meal at breakfast and one at lunch; at Dinner, eat something more.

But, in reality, it is up to you.

Are you aware that we only fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, On the other Fridays of Lent we eat fish or something that is not meat,

Happy Lent.

May God bless us in our efforts.

 

[KrazyKat]

You made an incorrect comment about what the rules are for abstinence.

And yet, somehow we are splitting hairs.

The correct response to our posts should have been.

Corrected response:

I see I was wrong about the church guidelines as the bishops say it is okay to consume broth, sauces, gravies, etc., derived from meat on days of abstinence.

I personally would not do so as I would derive as much satisfaction from this taste as I would from eating the flesh itself.

 

[Vico]

Corrected response:

I see I was wrong about the church guidelines as the bishops say it is okay to consume broth, sauces, gravies, etc., derived from meat on days of abstinence.

I personally would not do so as I would derive as much satisfaction from this taste as I would from eating the flesh itself.

St. Thomas Aquinas writes the following in Summa Theologica (II, 2, Q 147, Art 1):Fasting is practiced for a threefold purpose:

First, in order to bridle the lusts of the flesh, wherefore the Apostle says (2 Corinthians 6:5-6): “In fasting, in chastity,” since fasting is the guardian of chastity. For, according to Jerome, “Venus is cold when Ceres and Bacchus are not there,” that is to say, lust is cooled by abstinence in meat and drink.

Secondly, we have recourse to fasting in order that the mind may arise more freely to the contemplation of heavenly things: hence it is related (Daniel 10) of Daniel that he received a revelation from God after fasting for three weeks.

Thirdly, in order to satisfy for sins: wherefore it is written (Joel 2:12): “Be converted to Me with all your heart, in fasting and in weeping and in mourning.” The same is declared by Augustine in a sermon: “Fasting cleanses the soul, raises the mind, subjects one’s flesh to the spirit, renders the heart contrite and humble, scatters the clouds of concupiscence, quenches the fire of lust, kindles the true light of chastity.”​