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triumphguy
Guest
Not true.
The accidents remain in the form of bread and wine, therefore germs can be passed on.
But you are right - Jesus won’t catch the flu.
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The accidents remain in the form of bread and wine, therefore germs can be passed on.
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triumphguy
Guest
Sorry - this is theologically unsound.And Christ’s miraculous Body will not impart any sickness to man unless he partakes unworthily.
You may disagree with me but this is Theologically sound. Maybe the Western Catholics understand this differently from the Eastern Catholics. In some Eastern Churches, there is one chalice with the Body and Blood mixed together. We have the Eucharist (almost soup-like) fed to us by the priest with a spoon. The priest consumes the Eucharist after everyone sick or not partakes. The priest never catches their sicknesses. He (and others) told me that one can only get sick if one partakes unworthily.
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Bob_Aliano
Guest
Those of us who require the use of a cane must receive on the tongue, there is no way to properly and safely receive in the hand regardless of what the bishop might desire. Now if the priest orders a chair be brought and placed conveniently so we can sit and receive I suppose we could abide and receive in the hand.
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pnewton
Guest
Do Eastern Catholic also believe the Body and the Blood contain actual blood cells? I thought all Catholics believe the substance changes but the accidents remain.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=14769&highlight=sick
While not generally using the term “accidents”, yes we do believe that substance changes but the accidents remain.
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triumphguy
Guest
Perhaps you could say that the spirituality of the Eastern Churches believes that x, y, z.
However, if you tell me that if my little old 83 year old mother catches the flu from the priest’s hand it’s because she has received unworthily then I will just have to say, “Balderdash.”
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SHoJ
Guest
I’m afraid I would have stronger words than that!
And I would tell you she caught it somewhere else.
There are plenty of places in the sanctuary where one can catch the flu (pews, doors, etc). But God will not allow those who partake worthily to get sick from partaking in him.
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Lapey
Guest
Your comment here like this is something the poster you responded to is trying to pick a fight over. Remember this, the bishop nor the priest has a right to refuse someone Holy Communion because they only want to receive on the tongue. This is the norm in the Latin Rite Church; permission to receive on the hand is through indult.
If the pastor says no communion on the tongue until further notice he is in error and it should be questioned.
The USCCB used to have in the English translation of the GIRM that a person who kneels to receive on the tongue should be approached pastorally and told not to do that anymore. The Vatican corrected that and further mandated that a communicant shall not be refused if they wish to receive on the tongue; there are no exceptions for the flu season.
Furthermore, to suggest that a communicant “stay in the pew and receive a spiritual communion” is at best un-charitable.
I shall continue to present myself for communion with hands down and mouth open.
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Brendan
Guest
As the bishop requests? The bishop made the request to the priests.
Yes, I fully agree that all diocesan priests are bound to follow the directive. But where in the thread did JSmith say he\she was a diocesan priest?
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pnewton
Guest
Pardon me if I say that sounds more like superstition than theology. The bacteria and virus that can exist on the rim of a cup undergo no transubstantiation. What you are proposing is a healing miracle for one and all that partake in the Eucharist.And I would tell you she caught it somewhere else.
Can you show anywhere the Church has taught this, since the advent of modern medicine, of course.
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Moore11
Guest
I think it is silly. During the H1N1 media driven crisis,
Our parish instituted that all the EMHCs walk very ceremoniously to the giant hand sanitizes right next to the altar and sanitize. releasing the only form of incense our parish uses, ethyl alcohol…
This was always kept in place even after the crisis faded. Now, yup the priest washes in the water, and the EMHCs “wash” in the gel. It is as much a part of our liturgy as the Our Father where everyone holds hands across the ailses.
Trust me from the pew to the car is more germ filled than from the pew to the Body of Christ.
Funny, the people that freak out about this but when was the last time they sanitized their car keys?
Our parish instituted that all the EMHCs walk very ceremoniously to the giant hand sanitizes right next to the altar and sanitize. releasing the only form of incense our parish uses, ethyl alcohol…This was always kept in place even after the crisis faded. Now, yup the priest washes in the water, and the EMHCs “wash” in the gel. It is as much a part of our liturgy as the Our Father where everyone holds hands across the ailses.
Trust me from the pew to the car is more germ filled than from the pew to the Body of Christ.
Funny, the people that freak out about this but when was the last time they sanitized their car keys?
1 Corinthians 11:28-30 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you: and many sleep.
If you partake worthily, you will not receive infirmities from Christ in the Sacrament.
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MissRose73
Guest
When I had a flu/cold thing recently, I refrained from partaking in the cup to be charitable. Now, that I am fully recovered, I will return to taking Communion under both forms.
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pnewton
Guest
Yes, I know that the Scripture is where you got that from. However, even this does not say you will not get sick from the Eucharist. Read it again. Apply basic logic. A true premise (which is not even absolute) does not mean the negative of the premise is true.
So, do you know any from the Catholic Church for what I asked?
“…breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote to prevent us from dying, but [which causes] that we should live for ever in Jesus Christ.” - St Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Ephesians, Ch 20
The following incident, told by O. Skopichenko about St John of San Francisco and confirmed by many from Shanghai, well illustrates his daring, unshakable faith in Christ:
“A Mrs. Menshikova was bitten by a mad dog. The injections against rabies she either refused to take or took carelessly… And then she came down with this terrible disease. Bishop John found out about it and came to the dying woman. He gave her Holy Communion, but just then she began having one of the fits of this disease; she began to foam at the mouth, and at the same time she spit out the Holy Gifts which she had just received. The Holy Sacrament cannot be thrown out. And Vladika picked up and put in his mouth the Holy Gifts vomited by the sick woman. Those who were with him exclaimed: 'Vladika, what are you doing! Rabies is terribly contagious! 'But Vladika peacefully answered: ‘Nothing will happen; these are the Holy Gifts.’ And indeed nothing did happen.”
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pnewton
Guest
Do you really think that the immortality here is physical? I know Catholics who have died.
As to the miracle, that is a great story. However, the fact that this exists as a miracle tells me it is apart from the norm. No, I was asking about doctrine, or teaching.
I do not mean to make a big deal of this, except, I wouldn’t want someone here to take this superstition about the Eucharist as an excuse to partake in the cup when they know they had the flu, or to forgo basic sanitation because they buy into this.
I do not believe this is an East/West difference.
It is not superstition. It is faith. See this: monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?6474-Changing-the-method-of-communion-on-account-of-swine-flu
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