MERGED: Confessing sins by number?/Keeping a list of sin?

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Colorad007

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If I only have a vague estimate of how many times I committed a given mortal sin, is it okay to say “several” of “couple?”

I was confessing sins from many years ago that I had never actually confessed (I forgot through the years to confess the particular offense), and I said that I did the sin “several” times. Was my confession valid? A Deacon told me that post-Vatican II the emphasis is less on the “laundry list” and more on the actual contrition, so enumerating your sins is less important. I knew that my sin was probably 3,4,or maybe 5 times, so I just said “several” to cover all of those possibilities. There was definitely no intent to deceive, as I’m scrupulous enough already.

Any thoughts?
 
Since you mention that you have a difficulty with scruples …I would refer you to your regular confessor.
 
For mortal sins …yes we are to give number and kind…(though there can be at times exceptions)

There are times though when we do not know the number of mortal sins…so one can approximate. Thus if I know that it was around 8-10x well I say so. If what I know from my examine is that it was 1-2x week for around 4 months…I say so (this is all fiction by the way :)) …if I only know it was several times…or many times…or even alot!..well I say that.

(also I would note that one should not be unreasonable in ones exam…we proceed with a good examine…but not drive ourselves crazy…and I recall reading that some things can say stir up the temptation perhaps. But one proceeds* reasonably* …and those who are scrupulous need take good care here. They should discuss perhaps their examinations with their confessor…how long etc they take…for some can really scruple in such…they need direction from their confessor . And especially about digging in the past…something that may be not a good idea for many)

It would seem from what you said here that you were seeking to make a very honest and complete confession there. That you were doing what you thought you should do at that moment to try in your mind to be accurate. So it would seem that you should not question if that confession was “invalid”.

Bring it up in your next confession with your confessor…tell him what you noted here.
 
Bookcat said:
Since you mention that you have a difficulty with scruples …I would refer you to your regular confessor.
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I remember asking a confessor about this a few months ago, and a couple of priests had mentioned that ommitting the number of sins does not actually make a confession invalid, although it can be very helpful to include it. Although that could have been only in reference to my own personal case, because I am scrupulous.
 
Is it ok to keep a list of your sins. Say for example I commit a mortal sin on Monday and Confession is not till Saturday. Is it ok if I examine my conscience every day writing down anything I think is sinful and then confessing these sins on Saturday?

And I heard someone say they thought it was a sin of willful ignorance if they didn’t write down their sins and therefore couldn’t remember them when they had to confess.
 
Yes, you can keep a list of your sins. Just be careful of scrupulosity.

I don’t write them down. I figure that if I commit a mortal sin, then I will remember it as I will try to get to Reconciliation asap.

Venial sins are another matter. You do not have to confess each and every venial sin during confession, for venial sins can be forgiven in other ways.

Note that is still commendable to confess your venial sins – just be careful that your prolixity is kept in check in charitable consideration for the other penitents in line behind you.
 
Colorad007 said:
I remember asking a confessor about this a few months ago, and a couple of priests had mentioned that ommitting the number of sins does not actually make a confession invalid, although it can be very helpful to include it. Although that could have been only in reference to my own personal case, because I am scrupulous.
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Catholics are *obliged *to confess mortal sins in number and kind…

Though there can be exceptions at times…such as for example some who are scrupulous …but just cause one is scrupulous does not automatically exempt one (one should speak with ones regular confessor)…though I would add that often times a person who is scrupulous will seek to give “scrupulous numbers” and drive themselves bonkers…:)…they need their confessor to help them…all those with s scruples should have a regular confessor…

And of course there can be simply times when one does not know the number…and has to approximate etc.
 
But saying “several” or “couple” would not materially alter the actual number of sins, right? Unless I’m trying to intentionally hide the actual sin or the number, then I don’t see why a confession would be invalidated. Several, to me and I’m sure most priests, is roughly between 4 and maybe 7 or 8. And that’s exactly what I was aiming at in my own confession. Likewise, “couple” would me “roughly 2” and so on.
 
If I commit a mortal sin, I sure don’t need to write it down, I will remember it. But I suppose if someone is committing an excessive amount of mortal sins, then a list could be helpful.

But the idea of “willful ignorance” mentioned by someone else, seems to me to border on obsessiveness. A list could be a helpful tool for examining the conscience, not a compulsion, or a sin unto itself if the list is not done!
 
Colorad007 said:
But saying “several” or “couple” would not materially alter the actual number of sins, right? Unless I’m trying to intentionally hide the actual sin or the number, then I don’t see why a confession would be invalidated. Several, to me and I’m sure most priests, is roughly between 4 and maybe 7 or 8. And that’s exactly what I was aiming at in my own confession. Likewise, “couple” would me “roughly 2” and so on.
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(make sure to read the first and second posts that I posted above)
If I* know *that I robbed 6 banks and I say “several” …well that is not confessing the number as it should be confessed.

If I know I murdered 3 times…I need to say 3 times. Not ‘a few’.

If I know I committed adultery 5 times …I need to confess 5. Not say “several”.

If I can not remember how many times I did Y and can just say many times. Well that is fine.

Or if I do not know the number but know it was “several” well* that* is what I say for that is what I know after my examine.

It comes down to what one knows.

We are not expected to be Mr. Spock. I committed it 35.2625 times…

It is important not to scruple 🙂 or seek to know what one can not know…some who struggle with scruples will drive themselves bonkers trying to find some number that really can not be found…they need to work with their regular confessor.
 
I would talk it over with my confessor before beginning such a practice. Most often, it is the people who struggle with scrupulosity who feel the inclination to write everything down.

If one already struggles with scrupulosity, then I can see how keeping a list would be a very bad idea. You would leave wide open the possibilty for writing everything down “just in case” it is a mortal sin, and then even feeling guilty because “I probably should have written that down, but I didn’t, so maybe that’s another mortal sin…”

Definitely ask your confessor and heed his advice.
 
If you do decide to keep a list, make sure you get rid of it after you have had your confession. It is unhealthy to hold on to sins and ruminate on them after you have already had the sacrament of reconciliation. It is wise to remember the areas you tend to have trouble with so that you can avoid the near occasion of sin but don’t go overboard and dwell on your past mistakes more than necessary.
 
FAH said:
Is it ok to keep a list of your sins. Say for example I commit a mortal sin on Monday and Confession is not till Saturday. Is it ok if I examine my conscience every day writing down anything I think is sinful and then confessing these sins on Saturday?

And I heard someone say they thought it was a sin of willful ignorance if they didn’t write down their sins and therefore couldn’t remember them when they had to confess.
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since I go to confession once a month I write down my sins. After confession I shred the piece of paper. Hope this helps.
 
Based on your other posts, you seem to tend towards scrupulosity. Therefore, I suggest you follow the guidance of your priest on this matter, not people on the internet who do not know you.
 
FAH said:
Is it ok to keep a list of your sins. Say for example I commit a mortal sin on Monday and Confession is not till Saturday. Is it ok if I examine my conscience every day writing down anything I think is sinful and then confessing these sins on Saturday?

And I heard someone say they thought it was a sin of willful ignorance if they didn’t write down their sins and therefore couldn’t remember them when they had to confess.
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I do that actually. I have an incredibly bad memory so I do that myself. Priests have seen me read off a list in the Confessional (when I do it face-to-face) and none ever commented on it, so nobody ever said it’s not okay. I also write down the dates I confessed on the top, so I can answer the “when was the last time you confessed” question. Then I hang onto the paper and would try to work on those things.

Whoever said it’s willful ignorance is welcome to his or her opinion. Even though I agree it’s something you should do, I don’t know if it’s a sin of intentional neglect if you fail to do it.
 
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