MERGED: Convalidation?

[Questions2011]

I was married at the courthouse to my Eastern Catholic fiance last year as we had 90 days to get married because of immigration requirements. The plan was to go to my fiance’s home country and have the Catholic ceremony as soon as we got his green card and we were planning to that end. We then found out that I could not travel to his home country due to a travel restriction on government employees (which I am). So we are now doing it in the US and have been in touch with the priest throughout this process who is performing it and we are really excited.

The plan was to always celebrate the Catholic ceremony in front of family and friends with a reception afterward (minus things like bachelors/bachelorettes, bridesmaids, first dances, registries/showers, and the like), though everyone (including the priest obviously) knows we are legally married.

However, I’ve just been reading that following a civil ceremony with a church ceremony is usually something very small, because you’ve improperly gotten married outside of the church, even though we consider it our proper wedding. Is it wrong for me to be planning to wear a wedding dress and having a reception afterward with family and friends?

 

[Seatuck]

You both need to go talk to his priest and see what is allowed . Some parishes allow for the convalidation ceremony to include those elements that are found at a wedding.
The church would consider the church wedding as the “proper wedding”. Catholics are required to follow the Canon Law’s regarding marriage. Including proper preparation. It is considered a sin if a Catholic gets married outside the church and lives as if he is married.
It’s a shame that things weren’t done that way. And also that you didn’t look into the travel restrictions.

Congratulations on your engagement and impending wedding.

 

[Questions2011]

You both need to go talk to his priest and see what is allowed . Some parishes allow for the convalidation ceremony to include those elements that are found at a wedding.
The church would consider the church wedding as the “proper wedding”. Catholics are required to follow the Canon Law’s regarding marriage. Including proper preparation. It is considered a sin if a Catholic gets married outside the church and lives as if he is married.
It’s a shame that things weren’t done that way. And also that you didn’t look into the travel restrictions.

Congratulations on your engagement and impending wedding.

Thanks for the response! We are abstaining until we are married in the Church and I have been doing more research into the faith, having been raised protestant. The priest is also okay with us having the wedding-style celebration and reception.

And I only recently became a government employee. Unfortunately, the situation in the Middle East means travel bans and restrictions are being implemented and we don’t really have much say in when those are put in place and whether they’ll affect personal travel If we would have been aware of the restriction, we would have just married in the Church straight away.

 

[Corki]

You need to speak to the priest and get his advice. In many countries it is common to have a civil ceremony and then a Church ceremony. The couple obviously are not living as man and wife in between the two. With most convalidations, the couple has been living as if they were married for quite a while. That is why the low key celebration is more appropriate.

In your case, the time from is somewhere between the two. But you say that everyone knows you are legally married. I assume that means you are living as if you were married even though you haven’t completed the marriage in the Church.

The priest will advise you on what is most appropriate for the marriage ceremony. Of course, you can have as eleborate a party afterwards as you want.

 

[Questions2011]

In your case, the time from is somewhere between the two. But you say that everyone knows you are legally married. I assume that means you are living as if you were married even though you haven’t completed the marriage in the Church.

While we do live together (it’d be a real problem for immigration if we lived apart after the civil ceremony), we’re abstaining until we are married in the church. People just know that we have had a civil ceremony as it’s not something we think should be hidden.

 

[runningdude]

Since you are in fact abstaining and treating the church wedding with the reverence it deserves as your real marriage, I think you should pull out the stops and treat it as though the civil service never happened! Congratulations!

 

[Corki]

While we do live together (it’d be a real problem for immigration if we lived apart after the civil ceremony), we’re abstaining until we are married in the church. People just know that we have had a civil ceremony as it’s not something we think should be hidden.

You and I were typing at the same time. My response did not take into account that you were abstaining.

Since you are in fact abstaining and treating the church wedding with the reverence it deserves as your real marriage, I think you should pull out the stops and treat it as though the civil service never happened! Congratulations!

 

[joanofarc2008]

Congratulations on your wedding. Granted it was not exactly the right way to go about it but in some countries this is how Catholic weddings are done.

 

[Spirithound]

I was married at the courthouse to my Eastern Catholic fiance last year as we had 90 days to get married because of immigration requirements. The plan was to go to my fiance’s home country and have the Catholic ceremony as soon as we got his green card and we were planning to that end. We then found out that I could not travel to his home country due to a travel restriction on government employees (which I am). So we are now doing it in the US and have been in touch with the priest throughout this process who is performing it and we are really excited.

The plan was to always celebrate the Catholic ceremony in front of family and friends with a reception afterward (minus things like bachelors/bachelorettes, bridesmaids, first dances, registries/showers, and the like), though everyone (including the priest obviously) knows we are legally married.

However, I’ve just been reading that following a civil ceremony with a church ceremony is usually something very small, because you’ve improperly gotten married outside of the church, even though we consider it our proper wedding. Is it wrong for me to be planning to wear a wedding dress and having a reception afterward with family and friends?

You are currently living as if you were not married, so I see nothing wrong with celebrating your real wedding. I don’t think it will be long before the Catholic Church in North America stops offering civil marriages anyways.

 

[felsguy]

I don’t think it will be long before the Catholic Church in North America stops offering civil marriages anyways.

Can you clarify this, please. Not disagreeing, just not understanding what you are referring to.

 

[runningdude]

Can you clarify this, please. Not disagreeing, just not understanding what you are referring to.

Spirithound is referring to possibility that the government might require the Church to perform both heterosexual and homosexual marriage ceremonies in order to be able to sign the marriage certificate filed with local authorities.

If required to do so, the Catholic Church would simply cease signing marriage certificates, requiring couples to do so at City Hall, before celebrating the true wedding ceremony in the Church.

Similar situations have a already happened, when state governments required Catholic adoption agencies to place children with homosexual couples. When so required by law, the Catholic agencies shut down instead.

 

[Spirithound]

Can you clarify this, please. Not disagreeing, just not understanding what you are referring to.

In much of Europe, it is standard procedure for a Catholic couple to have a civil marriage at city hall and then to go to the church to have their sacramental marriage. They do this because the clergy are not recognized by the state as agent-ministers of civil marriage. In these cases, it was the government’s choice not to recognize the religious authorities.

As runningdude mentioned, the secular governments of North America are likely not far from trying to force the religious authorities to perform same-sex marriages. The best way for the religious authorities to combat this is to cease offering what the secular authorities define as marriage (and simply stick to the sacramental definition).

 

[felsguy]

Can you clarify this, please. Not disagreeing, just not understanding what you are referring to.

Thank you both. I understand now what you mean. My initial reaction is that I hope it wouldn’t come to this. I would be concerned that many couples then would opt only for the civil ceremony and skip the the sacramental ceremony. On the other hand this would eliminate the the big showy weddings where receiving a sacrament is probaly the last thing on the minds of everybody involved.

Does anyone have any knowledge about how well this works in those European countries, understanding that it’s out of necessity?

I wonder too if this is one instance where the “separation of church and state” would work in favor of the U. S. church, that is, if it were to be found unconstitutional to require the Church to perform same-sex marriages.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I was married at the courthouse to my Eastern Catholic fiance last year as we had 90 days to get married because of immigration requirements. The plan was to go to my fiance’s home country and have the Catholic ceremony as soon as we got his green card and we were planning to that end. We then found out that I could not travel to his home country due to a travel restriction on government employees (which I am). So we are now doing it in the US and have been in touch with the priest throughout this process who is performing it and we are really excited.

The plan was to always celebrate the Catholic ceremony in front of family and friends with a reception afterward (minus things like bachelors/bachelorettes, bridesmaids, first dances, registries/showers, and the like), though everyone (including the priest obviously) knows we are legally married.

However, I’ve just been reading that following a civil ceremony with a church ceremony is usually something very small, because you’ve improperly gotten married outside of the church, even though we consider it our proper wedding. Is it wrong for me to be planning to wear a wedding dress and having a reception afterward with family and friends?

Just treat your Church wedding as just that, your wedding.

 

[PatriceA]

Not much to add, but congrats on your upcoming sacrament of matrimony!

 

[runningdude]

Thank you both. I understand now what you mean. My initial reaction is that I hope it wouldn’t come to this. …
Does anyone have any knowledge about how well this works in those European countries, understanding that it’s out of necessity?

Its not universal throughout Europe. Italy at least still has a concordat with the Pope, that allows a church wedding in lieu of a civil ceremony. In the United States, at least some states still require a couple to obtain a marriage license before the church wedding to facilitate the paperwork. In Europe, the main difference (besides the sometimes open hostility to religion) is that you would take the civil vows then and there, before getting married for real at the Church.

I wonder too if this is one instance where the “separation of church and state” would work in favor of the U. S. church, that is, if it were to be found unconstitutional to require the Church to perform same-sex marriages.

I do happen agree with you on this, that the First Amendment is too strong a protection. As a plus, most liberals use the fact that churches can’t be forced to perform same-sex marriages as a selling point.

 

[sunyat]

I was married in a 'religious" ceremony in the Bahamas 3yrs ago that was not officiated by a Catholic Priest mostly because my husband is not religious. I am catholic and would now like to have my marriage “blessed” so that I can receive the sacraments and would like to start a family and raise my children in the Catholic Church. If my husband is not willing to convert to Catholicism or even go to church, can we still have a convalidation?

 

[Suslar]

I’d suggest you talk to your parish priest. He will be able to ask you more probing questions and get to the heart of what you need to do to make your situation regular (i.e. allow for convalidation).

Without a whole lot more info, no one on this website is qualified to answer your specific question with any certainty.

 

[Warrior1979]

I was married in a 'religious" ceremony in the Bahamas 3yrs ago that was not officiated by a Catholic Priest mostly because my husband is not religious. I am catholic and would now like to have my marriage “blessed” so that I can receive the sacraments and would like to start a family and raise my children in the Catholic Church. If my husband is not willing to convert to Catholicism or even go to church, can we still have a convalidation?

Yes.

If neither of you have been married before, and no impediments exist, the process is likely to be fairly straightforward. You can have either a simple convalidation, where you exchange vows, or a radical sanation, where you do not have to exchange vows again. The radical sanation will likely take longer.

As always, conditions may apply, and you’ll have to speak to a priest. If you are serious about this, I recommend taking action as soon as possible, because it won’t happen overnight.

 

[Spirithound]

Does anyone have any knowledge about how well this works in those European countries, understanding that it’s out of necessity?

Good question. From what I could glean of a report in Dutch, among Flemish Catholics, ~60% of them are married. It did not specify married in the Church, so I am unsure of that point.