Merged: Discussion with Jehovah's Whitnesses/Advice Needed Badly - Catholic V Jw's

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Hi guys, this is my first post and I live in Glasgow, Scotland. I really need some advice/help! I’m sorry if I drag on but it would be great if you stuck with me!

I’ll put you in the picture. My girlfriend is a Jehovah’s Witness and I’m a Catholic. Her mum was a devout Catholic before converting about 20 years ago. My gf was baptised a Catholic but completly brought up a JW. She does’nt go to the weekly meetings or round doors, but she used to and is thinking aout getting back in to it. She certainly believes the watchtower as the absolute truth. I’ve done a lot of reading on the JW’s and my gf and I have lively debates.
Things have been getting more serious recently and my gf has been making noises about trying to show me the watchtower is the truth. Last night her mum and I talked for a couple of hours about the Catholic and JW faiths. To be honest a lot of what she said made a lot of sense and its worrying me! I like to think I can hold myself in a theological discussion but JW’s get intense Bible training and she could throw quotes at me constantly!
Anyway, I said I don’t really trust the NWT of the Bible so she says I’ve to bring mine round and she will use it to shoot down my core beliefs. My gf even claims you could put the best Catholic theologian in the world up against an ordinary JW and the Witness would win every time.
The point of this post is, I was wondering if anyone could please give me some pointers or ammunition for the next debate. Any scriptures I could quote? What arguments will I use?
The things we’ve been discussing include the existence of hell, the Holy Trinity, the JW claim that only 144,000 get into Heaven, celebration of birthdays and Christmas, nature of the soul and the use of Jehovah.
My gf is confident her mum will shatter my beliefs so it would be good if I could refute their claims with ones of my own. They are so blinded its hard though so if anyone has any advice or knows any good resources I would be so grateful.
Thanks and sorry for dragging on.
God Bless.
 
First of all, with all due respect, a question: Why are you dating someone who does not share, and apparently does not even respect your treasured beliefs?

Ok, now that I have that out of my system… 🙂

DO NOT try to debate her with scriptures. In fact, if what she is saying is starting to make sense to you, you have been listening to way too much of it. Step back. Put some distance here for now, though. You are not yet in a position to be able to challenge her, and to do so w/o being properly prepared puts you in danger.

I suggest that before you discuss this with her again that you read the following book:

The Catholic Answer to the Jehovah’s Witesses: A Challenge Accepted*
by Louise D’Angelo

*JW’s are trained to use Christian Scriptures to support their Watchtower publications. You will not convince her through use of scriptures. The Watchtower has not always been consistent in what it says, however. You need to expose the Watcthower Society to get her to see the truth. If you can, get her to read old watchtower publications. (This is in the book, by the way).

Good luck, and pray hard for yourself and for her.
 
Louise D’Angelo’s book is available here, and probably also in other places online. It is published by Maryheart Crusaders, Inc. in the US.
 
Thanks Little Rose, I’ll check it out.
In answer to your question, I guess all I can say is you can’t help who you fall in love with! My gf is a fantastic person, really caring and considerate, and we have great fun together. Our views of Christianity are the the only things that seperate us. but I know thats a big thing.
 
chris1888 said:
Hi guys, this is my first post and I live in Glasgow, Scotland. I really need some advice/help! I’m sorry if I drag on but it would be great if you stuck with me!

I’ll put you in the picture. My girlfriend is a Jehovah’s Witness and I’m a Catholic. Her mum was a devout Catholic before converting about 20 years ago. My gf was baptised a Catholic but completly brought up a JW. She does’nt go to the weekly meetings or round doors, but she used to and is thinking aout getting back in to it. She certainly believes the watchtower as the absolute truth. I’ve done a lot of reading on the JW’s and my gf and I have lively debates.
Things have been getting more serious recently and my gf has been making noises about trying to show me the watchtower is the truth. Last night her mum and I talked for a couple of hours about the Catholic and JW faiths. To be honest a lot of what she said made a lot of sense and its worrying me! I like to think I can hold myself in a theological discussion but JW’s get intense Bible training and she could throw quotes at me constantly!
Anyway, I said I don’t really trust the NWT of the Bible so she says I’ve to bring mine round and she will use it to shoot down my core beliefs. My gf even claims you could put the best Catholic theologian in the world up against an ordinary JW and the Witness would win every time.
The point of this post is, I was wondering if anyone could please give me some pointers or ammunition for the next debate. Any scriptures I could quote? What arguments will I use?
The things we’ve been discussing include the existence of hell, the Holy Trinity, the JW claim that only 144,000 get into Heaven, celebration of birthdays and Christmas, nature of the soul and the use of Jehovah.
My gf is confident her mum will shatter my beliefs so it would be good if I could refute their claims with ones of my own. They are so blinded its hard though so if anyone has any advice or knows any good resources I would be so grateful.
Thanks and sorry for dragging on.
God Bless.
Click to expand...
Chris, this site, created by a frequent participant on this forum, should be of immense help to you:

catholicxjw.com/
 
As an ex Jehovah’s Witness, now Catholic, myself,
I cannot recommend Louise D’Angelo’s book mentioned above.
While it has it’s good points, much of the book is written with a vindictive pen and a lot of sarcasm, and also a lot of the content of the book is dated.

Try to find WHY YOU SHOULD BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY
by Robert Bowman on amazon.com
and also read carefully Karl Keating’s book
CATHOLICISM AND FUNDAMENTALISM.
While JWs are doctrinally different from the fundies,
they share one thing in common: both the fundies and the JWs
believe that the early church didn’t become Catholic until around the time of Constantine, which is a load of nonsense, and Karl’s book shoots it down.

Also, familiarize yourself with the teachings of the early Church Fathers. The JWs chief claim to fame is their belief that the ancient apostolic church which ringed the Mediterranean, was a Jehovah’s Witness church which later apostasized into Catholicism. Reading the earliest Church Fathers will prove to you that there were NO Jehovah’s Witnesses (doctrinally speaking) at all in the early Christian world, not IN the early Church, and even the small groups of early Heretics did not believe in Jehovah’s Witness teachings. SO, the JW claim to be the “restoration” of “true” Christianity, of early Christianity, falls flat on it’s face for the lie that it is.

The true church is the Catholic church.
God bless you,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
 
Jaypeeto3 said:
Also, familiarize yourself with the teachings of the early Church Fathers. The JWs chief claim to fame is their belief that the ancient apostolic church which ringed the Mediterranean, was a Jehovah’s Witness church which later apostasized into Catholicism. Reading the earliest Church Fathers will prove to you that there were NO Jehovah’s Witnesses (doctrinally speaking) at all in the early Christian world, not IN the early Church, and even the small groups of early Heretics did not believe in Jehovah’s Witness teachings. SO, the JW claim to be the “restoration” of “true” Christianity, of early Christianity, falls flat on it’s face for the lie that it is.

The true church is the Catholic church.
God bless you,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
Click to expand...
Yes! Knowledge of the Early Church Fathers is very good to have, not only in this situation, but also when discussiong Catholicism with many of our separated Protestant brothers and sisters. Plus, they often make good reading even if you aren’t planning to argue w/ anyone.🙂

Jaypeeto, glad to hear your perspective. Did not know D’Angelo’s info was outdated! 😦
 
There is plenty you can do to refute a Jehovah’s Witness, and if you need help feel free to PM me. I can send you a paper on how to win every single time you discuss the faith with a Jehovah’s Witness. It doesn’t take a huge amount of study, it just takes the right study.

So feel free to PM me I can send you some audio to help you.

God Bless
Scylla
 
Don’t let’em rattle you my friend, I got caught outside by two last week and spent about 30 minutes pointing out the errors in their beliefs. One thing that you need to understand is that they prey upon those who don’t know their faith or the Bible very well and literally target Catholics with their rhetoric and literature. You should’ve seen their eyes light up when I said I was a faithful Catholic.

Some basic digging will show that they have not cited sources for many of the things they assert are said by the ECF and “Catholic scholars”, often using guys that have been comdemned by the church without pointing that out.

Their Bible translation is a based wreck that I wouldn’t use for a paperweight. How bad is it? Look!
John 1:1 (Douay-Rheims Bible) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:1 (NWT) In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

That is completely messed up, and this is the only version of the Bible that has that. The bad news is that there is absolutely no textual justification at all for that indefinate article or the decapitalization of that last word.

They reject the Trinity and the diety of both Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

According to them the Holy Spirit is just sort of “a force”, but not a person. That is ludicrous though when you look at these two verses.
  1. Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, shall never have forgiveness, but shall be guilty of an everlasting sin.
  2. Luke 12:10 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but to him that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven.
If the Holy Spirit is not God then how can blaspheming Him be an unforgiveable sin? but they don’t believe that.

Don’t believe all that hype they are feeding you, and honestly my friend… I’d put any plans with this girl on MEGA-hold until she converts to Catholicism. If she doesn’t you’re gonna be in a living mess.

Are They Awake on The Watchtower? is a good article that will give you some good basic info on this non-Christian sect.

Look at this:
  1. Is the Watch Tower Society Reliable?
    …
    Among other things, the WTS predicted the following:
    1889 "The ‘battle of the great day of God almighty’ (Rev 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . " (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).
    1891 “With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy” (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).
    1894 “The end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble” (WT Reprints, 1-1-1894, 1605 and 1677).
    1897 “Our Lord is now present, since October 1874 AD” (Studies, Vol. 4, 1897 edition, 621).
    1916 “The six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th day, the 1000 years of Christ’s reign began in 1873” (Studies, Vol. 2, p. 2 of foreword).
    1917 “Scriptures . . . prove that the Lord’s Second Advent occurred in the fall of 1874” (Studies, Vol. 7, 68).
    1918 “Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).
    1922 “The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the scriptures than 1914” (WT, 9-1-1922, 262).
    1923 “1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge” (WT, 4-1-1923, 106).
    1925 “The year of 1925 is here. . . . Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year” (WT, 1-1-1925, 3).
    1931 “There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah’s faithful ones on earth concerning the dates 1914, 1918, & 1925 . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates” (Vindication, 388, 389).
    1939 “The disaster of Armageddon is just ahead” (Salvation, 361).
    1941 “Armageddon is surely near . . . soon . . . within a few years” (Children, 10).
    1946 “Armageddon . . . should come sometime before 1972” (They Have Found a Faith, 44).
    1966 “Six thousand years from man’s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E” (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 29).
    1968 “The end of the six thousand years of man’s history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date” (WT, 1-1-1968, 271).
Click to expand...
LINK

More Info!
 
LittleRose said:
First of all, with all due respect, a question: Why are you dating someone who does not share, and apparently does not even respect your treasured beliefs?
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t be so quick to criticize those of us who are currently in interfaith relationships. Perhaps God has called the OP to date this JW with the purpose of helping her and her family return to the Catholic Church.

Just my :twocents:
 
An EXCELLENT source is also The San Juan Catholic Seminars studies. Beginning Apologetics 2 and Beginning Apologetics 2.5 which are both taylored to refute their teachings.

One piece of serious advice. Don’t trust anything they tell you because I have found that they badly misrepresent their sources and work to make Catholics think that they are telling the truth, when in fact they are not. It’s really misleading and from having read their books and literature it appears to be intentionally so.
PM me if you need more help. I’ll be happy to help any way that I can.
Pax tecum,
 
Jabronie said:
I wouldn’t be so quick to criticize those of us who are currently in interfaith relationships. Perhaps God has called the OP to date this JW with the purpose of helping her and her family return to the Catholic Church.

Just my :twocents:
Click to expand...
It’s possible…as well as it may be God’s way of getting him to better know his faith. These crisis (sp?) often get folks deeper into the faith.

Guess that makes…:twocents: :twocents:
 
chris1888 said:
The things we’ve been discussing include the existence of hell, the Holy Trinity, the JW claim that only 144,000 get into Heaven, celebration of birthdays and Christmas, nature of the soul and the use of Jehovah.
My gf is confident her mum will shatter my beliefs so it would be good if I could refute their claims with ones of my own. They are so blinded its hard though so if anyone has any advice or knows any good resources I would be so grateful.
Click to expand...
While I would think the Trinity would be the hardest to get across Im pretty sure the 144k, immortal soul, hell and use of Jehovah are pretty easily refuted.
As someone already pointed out you NEED to go and read the articles on:
catholicxjw.com/doctrines.html
Also email the host of that page for more info…
You owe it to yourself to study up and this is clearly a time in your life to stand up to the challenge.
 
I read a story once about a Catholic bookstore owner who frequently had to deal with JWs. Here is what he did. JWs believe that only God can perform a miracle. Right? So, using their Bible, he went to the story about the woman cured of a hemorrhage, where it says that Jesus felt power going out of Him, and the woman was cured. If Jesus performed the miracle, then He must be God, right? If He’s not God, then how could He perform this miracle? I thought that was a great way to challenge them. I also second the “Beginning Apologetics” series.

Peace,
Linda
 
Jabronie said:
I wouldn’t be so quick to criticize those of us who are currently in interfaith relationships. Perhaps God has called the OP to date this JW with the purpose of helping her and her family return to the Catholic Church.

Just my :twocents:
Click to expand...
How is asking a question criticizing?

Second, in what way was I criticizing interfaith relationships? I was asking about the OP and her specific behavior. Not all interfaith relationships involve this kind of aggressive attack on someone’s beliefs.
 
I do not believe the JWs would permit a mixed marriage. If that is true, then one of you must change. If she changes - she will be cut off from all of her faily & friends completely. If you change, you will be strongly encouraged to, (or it will come naturally,) cut off realtionships with your family and friends. I have a friend whose sisters left for the JWs and they haven’t really spoken for 25 years. Recently they have been in strained communication - a little.

They are well trained to explain their faith and well trained on how to convince others. But that does not make them right. As has been pointed out, their translation is a mess and their theology depends on that translation. JWs publish a bible with both Greek & their English translation … it can be used to demolish their teachings because the Greek is honest but their translation is not. The problem is that they are taught to run like rabbits if you begin to crack the facade.

The JWs I have known or met are indeed very good people. That does not make their teachings good or true or even healthy.
 
Hi,
I just want to recommend William Jurgen’s Faith of the Early Fathers . This set is excellent! It goes right from the first century on up. Here is a good website with the writings of the early Church. Here is another one from New Advent. The early Church Fathers are **VERY **enlightening! 👍 It sounds to me like she’s trying to convert you to JW. Seriously speaking, if you don’t convert do you think she’ll continue to stay with you?
 
chris1888 said:
Hi guys, this is my first post and I live in Glasgow, Scotland. I really need some advice/help! I’m sorry if I drag on but it would be great if you stuck with me!

I’ll put you in the picture. My girlfriend is a Jehovah’s Witness and I’m a Catholic. Her mum was a devout Catholic before converting about 20 years ago. My gf was baptised a Catholic but completly brought up a JW. She does’nt go to the weekly meetings or round doors, but she used to and is thinking aout getting back in to it. She certainly believes the watchtower as the absolute truth. I’ve done a lot of reading on the JW’s and my gf and I have lively debates.
Things have been getting more serious recently and my gf has been making noises about trying to show me the watchtower is the truth. Last night her mum and I talked for a couple of hours about the Catholic and JW faiths. To be honest a lot of what she said made a lot of sense and its worrying me! I like to think I can hold myself in a theological discussion but JW’s get intense Bible training and she could throw quotes at me constantly!
Anyway, I said I don’t really trust the NWT of the Bible so she says I’ve to bring mine round and she will use it to shoot down my core beliefs. My gf even claims you could put the best Catholic theologian in the world up against an ordinary JW and the Witness would win every time.
The point of this post is, I was wondering if anyone could please give me some pointers or ammunition for the next debate. Any scriptures I could quote? What arguments will I use?
The things we’ve been discussing include the existence of hell, the Holy Trinity, the JW claim that only 144,000 get into Heaven, celebration of birthdays and Christmas, nature of the soul and the use of Jehovah.
My gf is confident her mum will shatter my beliefs so it would be good if I could refute their claims with ones of my own. They are so blinded its hard though so if anyone has any advice or knows any good resources I would be so grateful.
Thanks and sorry for dragging on.
God Bless.
Click to expand...
Man, hang in there! I was really into the Jehovah’s Witnesses for a time before I converted to Catholicism. I am so glad I found Catholic truth and didn’t get sucked into the watctower… they take passages of the Bible absurdly out of context, and all of their beliefs can easily be disproven using their own Bible.

Here is a website that should answer ALL of your questions. It’s 101 questions Jehovah’s Witnesses can be asked using THEIR OWN version of the Bible:

webshowplace.com/question/101quest.html

There’s another part of this same site that is just for Catholics:

webshowplace.com/question/Catholic.html

But click on the first link first, because the first thing you have to do is disprove the JW religion before you start proving the truth of Catholicism.

Look through those questions, and look the passages up for yourself in the Bible, and in their Bible. You can find their version of the Bible online at their website, watchtower.org.

Let me know if you have questions. And Good luck! :cool:

Take care,
Reed
 
I have Mormons and JW to thank for it was them that introduced me to the world of Apologetics.

There are three issues that you should discuss
  1. Divinity of Christ
    (the trinity is confusing to JW so better just prove this first)
  2. No total apostacy
    (Make sure you know the background of the scripture passages they will chuck at you and how to refute them)
  3. Watchtower delibertly misguides followers
    (For this I do recomment “WHY YOU SHOULD BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY” as previously mentioned.) This is because the Watchtower publishes a magazine called “Should you believe in the trinity” and is FULL of deliberate errors to try to prove their point.
Anything else are really secondary issues compared to these 3 points.
 
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