MERGED/EDITED: New Translation: Spirit vs. Body

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Why is it that the new translation in the english mass seems to downplay the importance of the body? Instead of phrases such as “and also with you” which encompasses the body and spirit, we are now to have “and with your spirit” which seems to neglect the fact that I also have a body. There is also the response “lord I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and I shall be healed” which is to become “Lord I am not worthy to receive you under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.” I feel like we are treating our bodies as roofs and houses which our souls are simply haunting in this new translation instead of as an integral part of what we are.
 
Heuchler said:
Why is it that the new translation in the english mass seems to downplay the importance of the body? Instead of phrases such as “and also with you” which encompasses the body and spirit, we are now to have “and with your spirit” which seems to neglect the fact that I also have a body. There is also the response “lord I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and I shall be healed” which is to become “Lord I am not worthy to receive you under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.” I feel like we are treating our bodies as roofs and houses which our souls are simply haunting in this new translation instead of as an integral part of what we are.
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“I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof…” is a reference to the centurion’s response when he saw Jesus approaching his house to heal his servant. It is not a reference to the body. Perhaps the previous translation confused you in this regard.

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 8:8[/BIBLEDRB]

Rest assured, Catholics don’t buy into a dualistic nature of the human person. We are body-spirit. Both components are integral to our humanity.

I am less familiar with “And with your Spirit” as the verbiage ceased use in English before my memory. However, I think it has something to do with the invoking of the Holy Spirit upon the priest when he is ordained.
 
I won’t try to answer, except to say there are specific reasons for returning to the literal translation of Latin to English…and I say “return”, because some of these changes do take us back to the Latin/English used for the Tridentine Mass (EF).

There are excellent explanations in various presentations on the changes. This is one I recommend highly:
A Biblical Walk Through the Mass (Book): Understanding What We Say and Do In The Liturgy by Edward Sri (Jan 3, 2011)

It’s available from Amazon for a reasonable price.
 
We humans are both physical and spiritual. The soul is the what animates the body - so to heal the soul, by definition, also heals the body!
 
JamestheOlder said:
I won’t try to answer, except to say there are specific reasons for returning to the literal translation of Latin to English…and I say “return”, because some of these changes do take us back to the Latin/English used for the Tridentine Mass (EF).
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There is no English in the EF Missal (1961). The translations in the handmissals vary slightly from one to the next. For example, you’ll find “consubstantial” in at least one, “one substance” in another. “Vouchsafe” in the canon goes way back but I doubt if they’ll keep that. Even the “and also with you” was used pre Vatican II. The readings from scripture will vary as well. The Anglican Church translated the old pre-Trent Mass and retranslated a few times since the 16th century, some of it still not accurate but has been accepted by custom among the Anglophones, such as “hallowed” and “trespasses.” It is true that some of the old translations were more literal but as English tends to be wordy at times and word meanings change, there is no way there can be a 1-1 Latin-English translation which can be sustainable. I am glad, however, Latin still remains the baseline for all the Roman Catholic texts and nuances.
 
Heuchler said:
Why is it that the new translation in the english mass seems to downplay the importance of the body? Instead of phrases such as “and also with you” which encompasses the body and spirit, we are now to have “and with your spirit” which seems to neglect the fact that I also have a body. There is also the response “lord I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and I shall be healed” which is to become “Lord I am not worthy to receive you under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.” I feel like we are treating our bodies as roofs and houses which our souls are simply haunting in this new translation instead of as an integral part of what we are.
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“and with your spirit” refers to the graces of the Holy Spirit which are with in the priest / deacon who recieved it in ordiantion to celebrate the Euacharist and to proclaim the word.

Under my roof, as stated else were is a direct reference to scripture.
 
Heuchler said:
Why is it that the new translation in the english mass seems to downplay the importance of the body?
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There are other parts of the new translation which do not “downplay the importance of the body”. You may be making a mountain out a molehill here.

Perhaps the question should be, why does the Latin of the Missal use “spiritu” and “anima”?
 
Thanks everyone for the answers.

Really the biggest thing that didn’t make since was the roof translation. Everything that explained the change said that it was because they were trying to quote scripture but it seems like they’re working way to hard to make a parallel to that passage and the comparison of our bodies as a roof just bothers me.
 
Heuchler said:
Thanks everyone for the answers.

Really the biggest thing that didn’t make since was the roof translation. Everything that explained the change said that it was because they were trying to quote scripture but it seems like they’re working way to hard to make a parallel to that passage and the comparison of our bodies as a roof just bothers me.
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Well, if you associate it too much, you could justify not receiving Christ within your body at all. But the Latin verse is a statement of faith and has been used for centuries, and mostly in old times when very few received sacramentally. Maybe it’s not the best place in the Mass for it now but nevertheless it’s an important part of the Mass, if not our faith.
 
Heuchler said:
Thanks everyone for the answers.

Really the biggest thing that didn’t make since was the roof translation. Everything that explained the change said that it was because they were trying to quote scripture but it seems like they’re working way to hard to make a parallel to that passage and the comparison of our bodies as a roof just bothers me.
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I think you are feeling what many of us, who know the Latin Mass and what the prayers in Latin mean, felt when the current English mis-translation was adopted. In my opinion This translation is more like something out of the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer than anything Catholic.
For some reason, these “creative additions and mis-translations” did not occur in the languages I know: German, Italian, Polish, and Spanish. The translation of the Mass into these languages is accurate,
I say, we are well rid of it. God Bless Pope Benedict for making it so!
 
Heuchler said:
Why is it that the new translation in the english mass seems to downplay the importance of the body? Instead of phrases such as “and also with you” which encompasses the body and spirit, we are now to have “and with your spirit” which seems to neglect the fact that I also have a body. There is also the response “lord I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and I shall be healed” which is to become “Lord I am not worthy to receive you under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.” I feel like we are treating our bodies as roofs and houses which our souls are simply haunting in this new translation instead of as an integral part of what we are.
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This “new” translation is actually a more accurate translation and a return to what it should be. All these years you have been used to a bad translation without realising it.
 
SonCatcher said:
“I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof…” is a reference to the centurion’s response when he saw Jesus approaching his house to heal his servant. It is not a reference to the body. Perhaps the previous translation confused you in this regard.
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I disagree. I understand the sentence as having different layers. One is receiving Jesus as a guest or visitor, the literal meaning from scripture. But I think it also refers to receiving Christ physically and sacramentaly within the temple of our bodies.
 
Heuchler said:
Thanks everyone for the answers.

Really the biggest thing that didn’t make since was the roof translation. Everything that explained the change said that it was because they were trying to quote scripture but it seems like they’re working way to hard to make a parallel to that passage and the comparison of our bodies as a roof just bothers me.
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People have many ways of explaining things. What is helpful to one may be offensive to another and vice versa. Since it was merely an explanation that offended, just find one that suits you. 🤷
Digitonomy said:
I disagree. I understand the sentence as having different layers. One is receiving Jesus as a guest or visitor, the literal meaning from scripture. But I think it also refers to receiving Christ physically and sacramentaly within the temple of our bodies.
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I was speaking of the scripture the response quotes. Certainly, there are multiple meanings that can be mined from both the scripture and the response. However, I agree with Heuchler that a merely bodily interpretation of “roof” is inadequate.
 
Hello All.

A beautiful morning here in the midwest. Thank you God.

I need help to clearer understand the body, the soul and the spirit. What is the spirit if not the soul. Many of our new responses to the Lord be with you will be and with your spirit, Can anyone enlighten me?

B
 
Hi Brewster!
I see you are new to CAF. [sign]http://bestsmileys.com/welcome/18.gif[/sign]

I can help you with this question by suggesting some great materials on the new Mass translation.

You’ll find the answer to your question on page 10 of Dr. Edward Sri’s new Booklet called “A Guide to the New Translation of The Mass”. in fact it’s the very first question that he answers. 👍

I recommend that you send for it right away. He also has a very good (and brief) CD available from Lighthouse Catholic Media.

A Walk Through the New Mass Translation
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         http://www.lighthousecatholicmedia.org/images/covers/LH17_1.jpg                                                                  
             
                     Dr. Edward Sri, Professor of  Scripture and Theology at the Augustine Institute, provides a  fascinating explanation of the new English translation of the Mass which  will soon be put into practice. This is truly a great opportunity for  Catholics to enter more deeply into the biblical and theological  richness found in the liturgy, and to better worship God with our whole  heart.
For more information on Dr. Sri’s A Guide to the New Translation of The Mass, a low-cost question and answer booklet addressing the changes in the liturgy along with a detachable reference card
Click Here

I’m surprised your parish doesn’t have these materials available because mine has a LCM display in the Narthex and these are available for a very small donation, though you can get them direct if you want to.

God bless you and again…welcome to CAF.
 
Oh, but to answer your question. Dr. Sri says the following:
One of the most noticeable changes in the Mass parts is the people’s response to priest’s greeting, “The Lord be with you.” In the new translation, we reply, “And with your spirit.” This more adequately reflects the Latin text of the Mass and the biblical language of St. Paul. (See Galatians 6:18; Philippians 4:23; 2nd Timothy 4:22)
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It also more fully expresses and important theological point. When we said, “And also with you” in the older translation, one might get the impression that our response was merely intended to express an exchange of personal greetings or reciprocal good will: “May the Lord be with you, too, Father.”
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But there is much more to this response. When a man is ordained a priest, the Holy Spirit comes upon him in a unique way, enabling him to perform the sacred rites of the Mass and consecrate the Eucharist. By responding, "And with your spirit, " we acknowledge the Spirit’s activity through the priest during the sacred liturgy. It is Jesus Christ who is the head of the community gathered for Mass and it is his Spirit who is the primary actor in the liturgy, regardless who the particular priest celebrating Mass may be.
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These are great helps to understanding about this new translation and I highly recommend them to you.

In fact, our parish has a class right now based on Dr. Sri’s book and video series A Biblical Walk Through the Mass | Study Program so you might see if yours does too.
 
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