MERGED: For transubstatiation to happen, should bread not look like bread?/Real Presence

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Not all substances have a chemical formula. Only compounds have one.

Mixtures do not have a chemical formula.

You know what I mean.
Compounds? What is that?
Let’s talk about elements. elements have got a chemichal structure.
So everythins that is made of elements has got a chemical structure. I n respect to the bread, itis variable but within certains boundaries.
I repeat, otherwise you would not distinguish an orange from bread.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

You know what I mean.
Compounds? What is that?
Let’s talk about elements. elements have got a chemichal structure.
So everythins that is made of elements has got a chemical structure. I n respect to the bread, itis variable but within certains boundaries.
I repeat, otherwise you would not distinguish an orange from bread.

Compounds are substances made up of two or more elements in fixed ratios. Please let me give you two examples: water (H2O), there’s always 2 hydrogens to one oxygen atom; glucose (C6H12O6) the ratio of carbon to hydrogen to oxygen is always 6:12:6. Because bread’s ingredients are not in precisely fixed ratios it’s a mixture (not a compound) so it has no formula.

Yes, I agree, all elements have a chemical structure. Structure and formula are different. Elements have symbols, e.g. H for hydrogen, Na for sodium.

We distinguish things from each other, such as bread, oranges, chocolate, cheese, etc. not by chemical formulae but by other means. They can be distinguished by taste, smell, sight and sometimes by touch.

I hope this helps.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Compounds are substances made up of two or more elements in fixed ratios. Please let me give you two examples: water (H2O), there’s always 2 hydrogens to one oxygen atom; glucose (C6H12O6) the ratio of carbon to hydrogen to oxygen is always 6:12:6. Because bread’s ingredients are not in precisely fixed ratios it’s a mixture (not a compound) so it has no formula.

Yes, I agree, all elements have a chemical structure. Structure and formula are different. Elements have symbols, e.g. H for hydrogen, Na for sodium.

We distinguish things from each other, such as bread, oranges, chocolate, cheese, etc. not by chemical formulae but by other means. They can be distinguished by taste, smell, sight and sometimes by touch.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the explanation.
But Bread has a chemical formula in he question of Transsubstantiation that’s what we are talking about.
To say that christ is present in the Eucharist is not by taste, smell and so on. Chemistry can make something taste like bread and not be bread and cannot be used in Eucharity. Some drinks taste like orange but from orange they have not one drpo. It is chemistry.
It is by chemical formula.
In culinary there is a ratio to make everything. You cannot make bread with 1 kilo of wheat and 1 kg of salt. It would not be bread. So the chemicals that are there have a different proportion.
The presence of Christ depends of chemistry not in taste, smell and so on. when the bread has not the chemistry (variable within certain limits) of what we call bread, because we ate it, because it is spoiled, Chirst is no longer there.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Thanks for the explanation.
But Bread has a chemical formula in he question of Transsubstantiation that’s what we are talking about.
To say that christ is present in the Eucharist is not by taste, smell and so on. Chemistry can make something taste like bread and not be bread and cannot be used in Eucharity. Some drinks taste like orange but from orange they have not one drpo. It is chemistry.
It is by chemical formula.
In culinary there is a ratio to make everything. You cannot make bread with 1 kilo of wheat and 1 kg of salt. It would not be bread. So the chemicals that are there have a different proportion.
The presence of Christ depends of chemistry not in taste, smell and so on. when the bread has not the chemistry (variable within certain limits) of what we call bread, because we ate it, because it is spoiled, Chirst is no longer there.

Christ is present in the Eucharist by a mystery not by some chemical reaction.

I believe that you are confusing the term chemical formula with chemistry itself. A formula is just a series of, usually, letters and numbers that represents a compound. It’s not the whole of chemistry. Again it is not the science of chemistry, as you seem to phrase it, which makes something that which it is. Of course, it is chemicals that are in things we eat and drink that ultimately contribute to its appearance, smell, taste, etc. But, we cannot give every chemical a formula; only those chemists call compounds.

If you baked a cake you couldn’t give the cake a chemical formula. However, you would put sugar in a cake. Now there are lots of substances that are classed as sugar. The sugar we buy in the supermarket for baking, sweetening a cup of coffee, etc. is the sugar called sucrose. Sucrose is a compound with the formula: C12H22O11.